Lets start talking tactics...

[rkhigdon]

ORIGINAL: vorkosigan
Finally, I have found also that the fleet-level AI does not use aggressively its fighter assets. The most common sweep mission generated by the AI consists in deploying just a pair of fighters alone. I have got fried several because there was no one else in the "air" to help.

True.

I have had some luck in asking for backup from command right at the beginning of a mission, before things get too hot. When it works you double your force, though the new pilots don't seem to take orders from you. They just follow along and mix it up when they can.

Also, you really have to show some restraint in those Sweep missions (or any of the missions for that matter). You have to pick your fights carefully and not try to destroy every target you see. Rather than mix it up with those big enemy flights, try to take out a fighter or two then head for the hills. Just take another sweep mission and work on wearing'em down some more. Better to get less than max points and live than die and get no points.

[rkhigdon]

On Fighter to Fighter Ops...

Try to plan your attack run carefully before entering combat with enemy flights. Pick your direction of approach and a Moderate Speed. Enter engagement range on No Thrust or Minimal Thrust. If you need to adjust your vector, turn to the appropriate heading and use a quick burst of max thrust to alter your vector to what's required, then go back to No Thrust. Using this method it is easy to avoid incoming missle fire as this will allow you to easily decoy the missles with little fear of being hit.

[LonghornXtreme]

rkhigdon, can you elaborate on your long distance stand off tactics? I always close at high speed, use my MRM's to disrupt the enemy flight, and then close in for kills with SRM's and guns, both of which necessitate being fairly close to the enemy. I just don't think that you can rely solely on MRM's as against a higher difficulty opponent, (or human especially...) too much distance to launch decoy, change vector, and kill thrust.... makes the MRM useless against someone who knows how to evade. The key is making them waste time evading your MRM's while you close to a much closer range, get a good hit in with an SRM and then mop up with guns....

Does anyone experience these same results? I'm anxious to hear from ya'll...

[rkhigdon]

Actually this is not a standoff tactic. However it is a tactic using the Standard Flight Mode not the Arcade.

The key is to set up your attack run to minimize use of engines and EMCON to gaurantee a decoy will work. Thus you can maintain your approach and have a choice of when to use missles or guns. If you can get the AI Fighters to break off at speed you can generally get a automatic missle kill, then maneuver for guns on another target.

[vorkosigan]

ORIGINAL: rkhigdon

Actually this is not a standoff tactic. However it is a tactic using the Standard Flight Mode not the Arcade.

I use a pretty similar tactic - burn for close to the 40-50 kliks range, kill engines, launch a pair of missiles on different ( if the enemy flight outnumbers you - most of the time, BTW ), evade enemy missiles ( if any ) and then close for the kill - yours or theirs .

However, no matter how good our fighter tactics might be, missiles are finite and sometimes enemies keep coming no matter how many you cut down. My gripe is that I have taken (extremely rare) sweep missions where up to three different "pairs" were on flight. But in the climax of the campaign, when you get CAP missions to clear the space around your carrier, your wingman and you must fight several waves of bombers and possibly a cap ship of two.

I must admit that this complaint might seem mere nitpicking. I appreciate the game designer's effort of leaving behind the wingcommanderesque epics of "one guy alone taking down half the kilrathi fleet". But if the AI sent out a reasonable number of fighters to defend itself, at least there could be some little chance. Instead of no chance at all.

The lesson learned is: whenever I become a fleet commander I will make sure to have my people properly supported

Miguel.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: vorkosigan

I appreciate the game designer's effort of leaving behind the wingcommanderesque epics of "one guy alone taking down half the kilrathi fleet".

What you mean? In WC4 Maniac kill more bad guys than I! Those are not kilrathi though...

I would also remind you about WC2 where mission is to escort Broadswords against enemy starship. Rarely player has been alone. Yea, those Morningstar missions...

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Yeah but in terms of relative power a tiny fighter is VERY dangerous in the WC universe to even the most massive dreadnought. For instance in the book "False Colors" a bunch of fighters rip apart turrets much bigger than they are on a Sivar dreadnought with just their guns.

[vorkosigan]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
What you mean? In WC4 Maniac kill more bad guys than I! Those are not kilrathi though...

I missed to play WC4 at all. Had a tough time burning my brows to get my degree

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen
I would also remind you about WC2 where mission is to escort Broadswords against enemy starship. Rarely player has been alone. Yea, those Morningstar missions...

You know what I mean Did you bother to count the cats you skinned that day?

[docvego]

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

Level 2 - sensors go passive, guns are de-energized, and reactor is throttled back; there is less power available to engines; I've never had a problem being spotting before reaching missile range on bombing runs with this level

I'm not sure if this is the 4.0.2 patch, or I'm screwing something up. But, I recently started playing and I haven't been able to get closer than 50k to a Capital Ship without getting lit up like a Christmas tree.

I'm running at EMCOM 2, as is the rest of my Element. Is there something I'm forgetting to do?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

I wouldn't worry about it...

Unfortunately, the sensor model isn't fully fleshed out... and besides which, the AI isn't *smart* enough for the ability to get close enough undetected to matter![;)]

The main way I see it being useful is on stealthy strikes around the sides w/ fighters in MP.

[rkhigdon]

The 1st thing I would suggest is to avoid coming in off the forward arc in the same plane as the Capital Ship. I usually dive below the plane and try to launch attack runs from the belly. You may still take some missle fire, just keep that EMCON at 2, make sure you keep thrust down, and use Decoys liberally. If you want to be ruthless order the other ships in your element to attack while you lag sllightly behind.

You will find that the fire decreases dramatically once you reach a certain declination from the target and you can start an attack run at any point after that.

[Mr.Frag]

If you want to be ruthless order the other ships in your element to attack while you lag sllightly behind.

Thats not ruthless, thats smart [:D]

You lead by being alive. Charging a couple of frigates and finding out that you need about 50 more decoys then you carry is not a good example of leadership. [X(]

The key I find is raw speed. The faster you are, the quicker you get within you gun's range where you are doing damage instead of being a target. The quicker you close, the quicker you will be able to get out of those missile arcs and you are also cutting down on the number that will be fired at you.

[Pheonix Starflare]

Stealth is important too. I did an assault mission the other day where i carefully kept my flight at emcom1 for the final segment of the attack run, popped out of it at the last second and the entire flight pummeled the frig with our ASMs, it didnt even get any missions off, IIRC.

Speaking of EMCOM, milo, would it be possible to add an 'emcom' variable to waypoints? Currently it is possible to set speed, objective and formation, could emcom level be set also? This way carrier commanders could send their attack craft in on silent running much easier than via radio commands.

[docvego]

ORIGINAL: Pheonix Starflare

Speaking of EMCOM, milo, would it be possible to add an 'emcom' variable to waypoints? Currently it is possible to set speed, objective and formation, could emcom level be set also? This way carrier commanders could send their attack craft in on silent running much easier than via radio commands.

This would be pretty nice. Good Idea!

[ShadowB]

Another newb with a tip here. [:'(]

I haven't tried this out yet, but here it goes. If not using the burner when evading missiles helps, shouldn't reducing thrust to zero help even further? In theory, the engines, being the strongest heat signature in the fighter, would cool down quite quickly due to the freezing temperatures of the vacuum, up to the point the flare(s) launched would irradiate a stronger signature, thus becoming the missile's main concern.

What do you think? [;)]

[Deviak]

Some of you who are talking of cap ship tatics have basically the right idea.. One note however is this..I've normally gotten through the campaigns because even though I was promoted to Lt.Commander and Commander..I did NOT take control of a DESRON. I stuck w/ fighters.

Dunno bout you but it seemed when I took control of a DESRON, I seemed to be more of a liability than an asset for the fleet. I saw 2 AI Volnaris destroyers take out my entire squad except me since I was too far away and one destroyer and another frigate from another squad before taking them out with my own torps and help from the carrier flights.

I thought to myself imagine if I had to assault one cruiser...The entire battle group would be destroyed. So trust me, stick to fighters till you hit cruisers..I'm in the last campaign on HOPEFULLY the last mission. Cripes, those Zolon cruisers are 2 much. Still haven't found a way to take one out and stay alive.

Another tip is this, some might consider this cheating against the enemy AI but hey..I'm trying to be smart here. Now, knowing that FFs tend to get creamed and Spectre DDs as well when you're talking about an enemy Cruiser BG or even another enemy DESRON. If you have a mission in a Destroyer to take out a ship..keep this in mind. You DO NOT have to complete that mission. If an FF gets a lucky shot to kill an enemy FF or even a DESRON gets to luckily kill another Destroyer....END YOUR GAME!!!. Lol. If another DESRON that you're not in control of kills an enemy FF and are about to go after the enemy cruisers or destroyers..End the game.

You're trying to reduce the enemy fleets, that's the goal. If your Destroyer runs out of torps and you wanna go after another ship...DON'T. Live to fight another day is more important than you know in this game. If in fighters, and a stupid FF is about to engage a Cruiser Group all by itself..end the game!!

Yes, it seems like a coward's way to survive. It's probably even an exploit, I admit, but the game is hard enough as is w/ your current fleet. I've tried many a time to make it through one mission by taking out the entire enemy fleet. All that survived would probably be me and one cruiser in my Battle group and the carrier and a half disabled cruiser.

Knowing you have more enemy fleets and possibly no reinforcements. Conserving your fleet is the best option at this point. In fighters, conserving that force is ALSO important. especially try to keep most of the Stormhawks alive. Falcons tend to get killed a lot and it's inevitable that Thunderbolts will get destroyed after assaulting a cruiser or destroyer or an enemy starbase. Other than that guys, those are my tips, everyone else has basically put up what I do in most of my missions.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to clearly aid my thoughts [:)]

[Kashre]

I dunno.. I rather enjoy the destroyer squadrons. They are useful for reducing enemy destroyer squadrons, for one, and also you can order the frigates around, and frigates with their Mk V launchers are great for reducing enemy fighter flights you happen across.

Taking out a cruiser is a little difficult, but if you are careful about adjusting the waypoints of freindly ships in the same sector you can swarm them easily enough. Just arange for a freindly cruiser squadron to get to the assault waypoint before you, and you can come in while the cruiser beat each other up and skid in under them on manual and pump their bellies full for torps.

[faith1]

DESRON's are challenging but I LOVE heading one up. I usually assign the FFs to escort duty of whatever heavy is in the area...usually a carrier. A carrier with 4-6 fighters and a couple of FFs nearby is immune from enemy fighters and most, if not all torp attacks.

I've taken out a carrier before by submarining an Asher in EMCON1 and then unleashing a few torps and X-Lasers and then quantum jumping out to repair. Most times I get the carrier to jump out as well...

[koldar]

Ok,
So here is a tactic that I just *discovered* the other night and it has helped me as a CA pilot on several occations. When asked to take out cap ships, I was getting frustrated by constantly getting my missiles shot down before they would get to the cap ship that I was supposed to take out (or any cap ship along the way). So, start to go at 200-400 mps right under the cap ship and right as you start to pass under it, turn 180 degrees so that when you pass by it you are once again facing it, and then lay into it with everything that you have. The cap ship will almost always start to turn and youwill be able to hit the side of the ship where it's point defence guns cannot stop your missiles. This also work better the further under the ship you are where there are no point defence guns. It has worked pretty good for me on at least 15 to 20 missions. Very little damage was taken in the process.

[ceyan]

For capital ship combat, I'm always in the lead. First thing I do when I enter a mission is order all my units to a point above or below the grid line and centered in a group. Then I launch probes in my target direction, and I fly towards it in front of the pack. That way I'm in line to take all the torps when they come in, and I can arrange myself to properly stop them. Plus, by coming in at the same angle as my other units there is a greater chance of torpedoes getting through (in the case where I can't easily arrange for my other units to come in at an angle where the PD coverage is minimal. By managing that properly I've taken out a full cruiser squad with my destroyer squad and some convient fighter backup.

Another bonus, is that if you can work your speed right, by being the first in you can force the opponent to turn and back off without the problems the AI usually encounters (such as colliding). That means you've not only bought more time for you and your other units to pound on the enemy, but they aren't retaliating because their main firing arc is pointing the wrong way. The only problem is, you have to take out the first target before your units start to turn away to avoid a collision. If you don't, 90% of the time you'll get boxed in by the opponents escort and in a destroyer, facing a cruiser group, getting boxed in means instant death.