Gracias, camarada.
Gorgias... ¡Yo también te quiero! Es indignante cómo basándose en "nuevos" y clarividentes estudios se reescribe la historia... un poco, en aras de la jugabilidad, puedo entenderlo... pero esto de la versión 7.0 es demasiado hasta para mí, un auténtico despropósito... Si la historia fuera como la reescriben la guerra habría acabado en el 42, victoria Alemana. Lo peor de todo es que la mayoría de la gente se dedica a hacer el pelota a los de Matrix, y lanzarme comentarios sarcásticos en lugar de intentar desempolvar los libros de historia. No entiendo cómo pretenden que esto es histórico... tal vez el coeficiente intelectual está bajando... será la mala alimentación.
Y si no se enteran porque está en español, que se jodan y busquen un traductor ¡joder!, que nosotros traducimos todo el día y no tenemos problemas.
Un abrazo.
Miki.
Ver 7.0 is a Fairy Tale...
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Well but I just conducted a test.
Date: JUNE 1941.
50L42 gun with APCR mounted by PzIIIj against KV-1 m.40.
Range 274metres (6 hexes).
The test lasted until every KV was abandoned or destroyed. All shots hit the front HULL or TURRET.
(I sorted the few SIDE hits away)
Shots fired: 34.
Penetrations: 32.
Date: JUNE 1941.
50L42 gun with APCR mounted by PzIIIj against KV-1 m.40.
Range 274metres (6 hexes).
The test lasted until every KV was abandoned or destroyed. All shots hit the front HULL or TURRET.
(I sorted the few SIDE hits away)
Shots fired: 34.
Penetrations: 32.
Thanks for testing Svennemir!Originally posted by Svennemir:
Well but I just conducted a test.
Date: JUNE 1941.
50L42 gun with APCR mounted by PzIIIj against KV-1 m.40.
Range 274metres (6 hexes).
The test lasted until every KV was abandoned or destroyed. All shots hit the front HULL or TURRET.
(I sorted the few SIDE hits away)
Shots fired: 34.
Penetrations: 32.
it is exactly as I have tested: same results. And if you test Shermans against Panthers... you will discover new surprises.
Desperta ferro!
Miquel Guasch Aparicio
Miquel Guasch Aparicio
Ah yes, and here's a quote from Antony Beevor: "Stalingrad", pp. 90-91:
(July 25, 1941)
'They had longer range,' explained a German panzer commander. 'We could not attack them across the open. So,like ships at sea, I pulled my tanks right back out of sight, made a wide detour, and attacked them from behind.' The Russian heavy tanks scattered, except for one which had lost a track; its traverse mechanism had jammed, so the turret could not turn. 'We lined up behind him, and started to shoot. We counted our hits on this tank, but none of them penetrated the armour. Then, I saw the hatch of the tank move. I guessed that they wanted to surrender, so over the radio I told my company to cease fire. The Russians then opened the hatch completely and climbed out.' The crew were totally confused, shaken and deafened, but not one of them was even wounded. 'It was depressing to realize how inferior our tank guns were.' <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
(July 25, 1941)
'They had longer range,' explained a German panzer commander. 'We could not attack them across the open. So,like ships at sea, I pulled my tanks right back out of sight, made a wide detour, and attacked them from behind.' The Russian heavy tanks scattered, except for one which had lost a track; its traverse mechanism had jammed, so the turret could not turn. 'We lined up behind him, and started to shoot. We counted our hits on this tank, but none of them penetrated the armour. Then, I saw the hatch of the tank move. I guessed that they wanted to surrender, so over the radio I told my company to cease fire. The Russians then opened the hatch completely and climbed out.' The crew were totally confused, shaken and deafened, but not one of them was even wounded. 'It was depressing to realize how inferior our tank guns were.' <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I'm not an expert on Armor but I've played every version of the SP series and have some scenarios that have been created in almost every version. I use those to test new changes to the game.
IMO - the changes made in Version 7 to the Russian and German armor/guns is wrong. The increase in Penetration of German guns combined with the decrease of Armor thickness and gun penetration on Russian tanks and guns has over compensated where a minor adjustment was needed.
I have no facts to back this up - only a feeling when playing the game from experience of playing Armor games for over 30 years and reading books for at least that time frame. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I love some of the fixes in Version 7 but I'll have to go back to Version 6.1 until this is worked out. Luckily I copied it onto my wifes computer before doing the upgrade - but don't tell her!! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
IMO - the changes made in Version 7 to the Russian and German armor/guns is wrong. The increase in Penetration of German guns combined with the decrease of Armor thickness and gun penetration on Russian tanks and guns has over compensated where a minor adjustment was needed.
I have no facts to back this up - only a feeling when playing the game from experience of playing Armor games for over 30 years and reading books for at least that time frame. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I love some of the fixes in Version 7 but I'll have to go back to Version 6.1 until this is worked out. Luckily I copied it onto my wifes computer before doing the upgrade - but don't tell her!! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, f
Hello Ruxius.Originally posted by ruxius:
I am sorry Mikimoto but I can't understand why you try to explain your point of view starting with a mood that is more oriented towards ridiculizing rather than discussing seriously the point..that way it seems you are not really interested in showing your point...
Matrix obviously tends to offer some replies...it's not easy changing things continuosly , and also corrections should be prooved in some way more than on e time...
I respect you so much. But I think I am not who has to prove or defend my point. As I have tried to say these changes are going against all I have learned from WWII, specially in the East Front... It's game designers fault, not mine.
They think and believe all are wrong: historians, other game designers and "some" spwaw fans... Perhaps Avalon Hill was wrong, THEGAMERS, SPI, 3W, GMT, SSI, AVALANCHE, Gary Grigsby, OSPREY, Ty Bomba, Richard Berg, Mark Hermann, etc..
And all the "battle reports" from german officers talking about his soviet experiences were wrong or are false "you know, mein Oberst, we dont need to attack from the flank, from the front all is OK. And no, no, don't bring me those 88's. We don't need them to deal with that fucked KV...".
Vamos, hombre, que se han pasado.
Desperta ferro!
Miquel Guasch Aparicio
Miquel Guasch Aparicio
Now Now Warrior - it's not a matter of getting over anything - it's a matter of stating ones opinion - right or wrong. Being an American that is a right I WON'T give up. And if it's a change that makes me and other gamers not want to play version 7 for whatever reason - I'm sure Matrix would want to hear it. And I'm not one to change the OOBs - I live with them as they are or move on to another game - or in this case back to a previous version.Originally posted by Warrior:
This is getting out of hand. All of you that want Red tanks to kill German tanks, just replace the T-34 main gun with a 150mm cannon or something like that and GET OVER IT.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, f
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Paul Vebber
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- Contact:
Appreciate the cast of thousands you align against me, but where in all that is DATA that contradicts what is in the game and if you want it changed whatdo you think it should be changed to?
You started this whole thing listing a set of penetration numbers you don;t agree with. You continue to rail that "the game goes against everything known about WWII"
Please quote specific data that contradicts what is in the game, or explain how you feel accurate data is being incorrectly used.
You keep making statements and site a litany of sources, but where's the meat?
You started this whole thing listing a set of penetration numbers you don;t agree with. You continue to rail that "the game goes against everything known about WWII"
Please quote specific data that contradicts what is in the game, or explain how you feel accurate data is being incorrectly used.
You keep making statements and site a litany of sources, but where's the meat?
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LeibstandartePzD
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- Location: NW Indiana, (Valpo) USA
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You know since this game is free and includes an editor that allows you to tweak anything you like you can always change what you disagree with.
It really burns me up to read of people flaming Matrix especially over a FREE game with an EDITOR!
It really burns me up to read of people flaming Matrix especially over a FREE game with an EDITOR!
Respectfully,
Jason E. Otto
Former member of the 8th US Cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech
Jason E. Otto
Former member of the 8th US Cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech
I don't have SPWAW installed on this machine, so I'll try at home later but:
IIRC the T34/76 has a smaller crew (commander as loader) this is part of the data in the OOB. Also there is unit ROF.
What is the ROF and crew of a Panzer III, and the T34/76?
I'm sure that in these tests the Soviet forces (T34) are under a ROF deficit compared to the Germans.
Also, combat ranges of 10-12 hexes....(visibility 10-12) mean that the engagements take place VERY close, in which case the side that shoots first (op-fire?) has a good chance of killing the enemy.
Test with longer visibility and Steppes (not bush/forest etc where LOS is very short) so that you can actually see whether the T34 can deal with the PIII
IIRC the T34/76 has a smaller crew (commander as loader) this is part of the data in the OOB. Also there is unit ROF.
What is the ROF and crew of a Panzer III, and the T34/76?
I'm sure that in these tests the Soviet forces (T34) are under a ROF deficit compared to the Germans.
Also, combat ranges of 10-12 hexes....(visibility 10-12) mean that the engagements take place VERY close, in which case the side that shoots first (op-fire?) has a good chance of killing the enemy.
Test with longer visibility and Steppes (not bush/forest etc where LOS is very short) so that you can actually see whether the T34 can deal with the PIII
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Paul Vebber
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Scorpion_sk
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- Location: Finland
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Capt. Pixel.....please....Agh, best to leave it at that....
That goes for Warrior too...I´m sorry, but that is the sort of attitude I despise...If I want "just a game" I´ll go play one.
I know I have lots of them. For SPWAW I want something different.
The enjoyment does not come from "blasting tanks and driving vehicles around" but rather from the *simulation*. No offence is meant we just have a difference of opinion here.
Regardless of the test conditions and AI tactics, those tests you´ve run, they confirm that something is wrong.
Yes, modifying the conditions (visibility, terrain, AI tactics) might modify the results somewhat, but only to a small degree. We will certainly not see them turn upside down just because of those conditions.
This is an important issue since many of us will be fighting you know where and you know when and guess what SHOULD be giving us the most headache.
Yes, the game includes an editor, but not everyone of us has the ballistics data or extensive knowledge about the issue.
So, unless Matrix makes an exception and releases a correction (which I´m sure is more likely to happen if we discuss it in a cordial manner.) we need to come up with a plan how to modify the data ourselves if needed in a mostly uniform manner (that is, for those who want to do it).
In other words, we´ll discuss the issue here and decide on the new values for the things that need changing.
Ok. My suggestions. No hard data here as I haven´t looked at the values myself.
So the germans´ 50 mm gun is too efficient.
Lower the value *just a bit*, closer to v 6.1 values (but still maybe a notch higher than it used to be.)
What about other gerry guns? Or is just the 50mml42 gun standing out?
Ok, the soviet tanks. They need to have their armour values increased closer to what they were in v 6.1. This should be the biggest change, right?
I don´t know about the efficiency of soviet guns vs german armour so I won´t say anything about that yet. But I´m assuming their pen. values are just a bit too low too? If so , tune them up just a little.
The end result and objective of all of these *small* modifications should be to make the tanks more even, with the T-34 being just a bit better than the PzIII variants as a whole (taking things such as russian training, rof etc etc into account).
Just like their points value suggests.
This way, everybody should at least stay content and Megacampaign balance would not be totally lost (although the AI needs every bit of help it can get).
As for Matrix, please continue doing the good job and stay motivated despite angry, impassioned gamers. I think we all agree that something needs a bit of changing, and in the end we all want the best for the game.
That goes for Warrior too...I´m sorry, but that is the sort of attitude I despise...If I want "just a game" I´ll go play one.
I know I have lots of them. For SPWAW I want something different.
The enjoyment does not come from "blasting tanks and driving vehicles around" but rather from the *simulation*. No offence is meant we just have a difference of opinion here.
Regardless of the test conditions and AI tactics, those tests you´ve run, they confirm that something is wrong.
Yes, modifying the conditions (visibility, terrain, AI tactics) might modify the results somewhat, but only to a small degree. We will certainly not see them turn upside down just because of those conditions.
This is an important issue since many of us will be fighting you know where and you know when and guess what SHOULD be giving us the most headache.
Yes, the game includes an editor, but not everyone of us has the ballistics data or extensive knowledge about the issue.
So, unless Matrix makes an exception and releases a correction (which I´m sure is more likely to happen if we discuss it in a cordial manner.) we need to come up with a plan how to modify the data ourselves if needed in a mostly uniform manner (that is, for those who want to do it).
In other words, we´ll discuss the issue here and decide on the new values for the things that need changing.
Ok. My suggestions. No hard data here as I haven´t looked at the values myself.
So the germans´ 50 mm gun is too efficient.
Lower the value *just a bit*, closer to v 6.1 values (but still maybe a notch higher than it used to be.)
What about other gerry guns? Or is just the 50mml42 gun standing out?
Ok, the soviet tanks. They need to have their armour values increased closer to what they were in v 6.1. This should be the biggest change, right?
I don´t know about the efficiency of soviet guns vs german armour so I won´t say anything about that yet. But I´m assuming their pen. values are just a bit too low too? If so , tune them up just a little.
The end result and objective of all of these *small* modifications should be to make the tanks more even, with the T-34 being just a bit better than the PzIII variants as a whole (taking things such as russian training, rof etc etc into account).
Just like their points value suggests.
This way, everybody should at least stay content and Megacampaign balance would not be totally lost (although the AI needs every bit of help it can get).
As for Matrix, please continue doing the good job and stay motivated despite angry, impassioned gamers. I think we all agree that something needs a bit of changing, and in the end we all want the best for the game.
Greetings every one. Is there a big difference between versions? I still get slaughtered in the same old way. Last battle I had Soviets July 43 clear weather clear terrian (recipe for disaster)
I took 5 companies of Tankodest's with T-34m42 each with a FO on a BT-7m a btry of 122mm FA and 2 Strumoviks as support. One of those supper large maps with 5 victory areas 1 up north behind my start line 3 in the middle and one down south.
I decided to mass everything in the north and drive south. One turn one I occupied the northern area. with 1 co and 1 in support while the other 3 headed south. On turn 2 MK-IVh's appeared and 3 Tigers at turns end 16 of 22 Soviet tanks had been destroyed. On turn 3 I managed to kill several half tracks (carring SS inf) but I had to hit them several times. Every hit on a MK-IV bounched. I turned the 3 other companies around.
12 more Soviet tanks were destroyed on turn 3. With me killing a few more halftracks. On turn 4 the airforce arrived and killed another half track. By the end of turn 5 my 9 surviving tanks (out of 55) were running. The poor infantry dismounted and in the open were butchered.
Nothing new here from one version to the next. I have much better success against German armour if I just stick to purchasing Soviet infantry and hiding. The good thing about battles between German and Soviet tanks is they only take a few turns to fight. I still love playing the game and have just came to accept the fact that when a Soviet tank moves or fires it dies. I love playing against Tigers and Panther fat German forces that skimp the infantry support. If I had had time I would have used my arty to lay smoke and sent the infantry with their molotovs forward. But I was hit faster then I thought and then my FO's all needed 1.1 turns to call and by that time it was over. Antone looking for an online battle? (I can never get combat net to work)
I took 5 companies of Tankodest's with T-34m42 each with a FO on a BT-7m a btry of 122mm FA and 2 Strumoviks as support. One of those supper large maps with 5 victory areas 1 up north behind my start line 3 in the middle and one down south.
I decided to mass everything in the north and drive south. One turn one I occupied the northern area. with 1 co and 1 in support while the other 3 headed south. On turn 2 MK-IVh's appeared and 3 Tigers at turns end 16 of 22 Soviet tanks had been destroyed. On turn 3 I managed to kill several half tracks (carring SS inf) but I had to hit them several times. Every hit on a MK-IV bounched. I turned the 3 other companies around.
12 more Soviet tanks were destroyed on turn 3. With me killing a few more halftracks. On turn 4 the airforce arrived and killed another half track. By the end of turn 5 my 9 surviving tanks (out of 55) were running. The poor infantry dismounted and in the open were butchered.
Nothing new here from one version to the next. I have much better success against German armour if I just stick to purchasing Soviet infantry and hiding. The good thing about battles between German and Soviet tanks is they only take a few turns to fight. I still love playing the game and have just came to accept the fact that when a Soviet tank moves or fires it dies. I love playing against Tigers and Panther fat German forces that skimp the infantry support. If I had had time I would have used my arty to lay smoke and sent the infantry with their molotovs forward. But I was hit faster then I thought and then my FO's all needed 1.1 turns to call and by that time it was over. Antone looking for an online battle? (I can never get combat net to work)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
I do not know how well the IIIh fared against the T34/76 in reality, but after running a few (very unscientific) tests I came to conclusion that although IIIh can destroy T34 within 400m (8 hexes)about as often as T34 can destroy it, the IIIh's get slaughtered from distances over 750m (15 hexes). IIIh has no chance to penetrate the frontal armor of T34, while the 76mm penetrates aprox. 20% of the time.
How often did tanks shoot at each other face to face at point-blank ranges anyway?
How often did tanks shoot at each other face to face at point-blank ranges anyway?
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sebagonzalez
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There are obviously 2 schools of thinking here about armor in ww2. I must say that I TOTALLY AGREE with Mikimoto, Gorgias and Gallo Rojo (and others now), not because we r comrades of SPWAW since a time, but because all they say in extended way reflects my way of thinking about this subject. But on the other hand, I think that we have (Thks god for some of us), the possibility of just uninstall the game and install it and patch till V6.1 (the more accurate one to me). So, we also know that V7 was the last patch from Matrix, so from now on they will focus on Combat Leader, so things are very straight………or you like the new version or u keep with the 6.1 which satisfied a lot of us, then the 2 schools of thinking are satisfied. In my case I am right now playing again in 6.1. Although this new version will now make my online play harder, since I will have to search for people with V6.1, instead of V7. Since there will be nothing more new under the sun in matter of patches by Matrix to this game, the issue becomes clear to me…….Or u play V6.1 or V7. Since anything we say will not change a damn thing from now on, lets just make our choices.
I am writing this post offline so I don’t remember the name of the guy that said it was just a game so play it or leave it (it´s warrior, I am looking now, and seems also to be a sarcastic assle for the last post he puted)……well…… actually what makes this kind of discussion is that the game is based in WW2, and from WW2 we have facts, and this facts must be reflected in a game that tries to reflect the conflict as accurate as possible, and this are not only my words, I think that with each topic that is posted about proposed changes and also critics we are all struggling to make the game better and to make it an accurate WW2 tactical warfare game. I think u were a veteran of this forum also, so I guess that some time ago when u posted things in the forum about what changes can make the game more accurate or what changes not, u would be very happy of hearing a guy telling you (is just a game, play it or leave it), when u know the spirit of this kind of topics is for struggling for improvement.
Anyway, as I say above, we cant do nothing else from now on since V7 is the definitive version, so things are just simple as playing V7 or V6.1.
I forgot also to say that the way i see it, tha game from 6.1 to 7 is sacrificing accuracy to balance, a balance that to me is made by good choices of equipment and well planned tactical decisions more than by making the game LESS ACCÚRATE. Seems to be making the game more accessible to beginners. Or u will tell me that u never beated the Soviets with the Italians in 1942? Or some of this battles that seems impossible but where u finally win. It´s incredible how u can use the prejudices of other players towards a combatant country for your benefit in battle. I am remembering now the Movie “The Patriot” when the Americans used the Militia to engage the british based on the prejudice of the british general for their benefit. This can also be translated to the game, I can assure u that.
PS: I did some more tries, and had 10 T34 tanks vs 10 PzIII J, with the following result:
All Russian tanks dead with no german casualties, and this result keep happening more or less the same!!!. I tried thhe same in 6.1, and results are more accurate……4 T34 destroyed and all panzers destroyed or damaged.
I am writing this post offline so I don’t remember the name of the guy that said it was just a game so play it or leave it (it´s warrior, I am looking now, and seems also to be a sarcastic assle for the last post he puted)……well…… actually what makes this kind of discussion is that the game is based in WW2, and from WW2 we have facts, and this facts must be reflected in a game that tries to reflect the conflict as accurate as possible, and this are not only my words, I think that with each topic that is posted about proposed changes and also critics we are all struggling to make the game better and to make it an accurate WW2 tactical warfare game. I think u were a veteran of this forum also, so I guess that some time ago when u posted things in the forum about what changes can make the game more accurate or what changes not, u would be very happy of hearing a guy telling you (is just a game, play it or leave it), when u know the spirit of this kind of topics is for struggling for improvement.
Anyway, as I say above, we cant do nothing else from now on since V7 is the definitive version, so things are just simple as playing V7 or V6.1.
I forgot also to say that the way i see it, tha game from 6.1 to 7 is sacrificing accuracy to balance, a balance that to me is made by good choices of equipment and well planned tactical decisions more than by making the game LESS ACCÚRATE. Seems to be making the game more accessible to beginners. Or u will tell me that u never beated the Soviets with the Italians in 1942? Or some of this battles that seems impossible but where u finally win. It´s incredible how u can use the prejudices of other players towards a combatant country for your benefit in battle. I am remembering now the Movie “The Patriot” when the Americans used the Militia to engage the british based on the prejudice of the british general for their benefit. This can also be translated to the game, I can assure u that.
PS: I did some more tries, and had 10 T34 tanks vs 10 PzIII J, with the following result:
All Russian tanks dead with no german casualties, and this result keep happening more or less the same!!!. I tried thhe same in 6.1, and results are more accurate……4 T34 destroyed and all panzers destroyed or damaged.
Mierda....y ahora...que corno hago?
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Panzer Leo
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- Location: Braunschweig/Germany
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> Grrrr.....!!!!
What's happening here is just what happened, when the godlike Tiger I was pushed of it's throne. Someone does remember the old days, when the Tiger I ruled the battlefield and nothing could stand against it ? It was, (and now something rare, I use AmmoSgts words <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ) something from the land of Myth and Fantasy. All kind of folks were yelling and screaming how the Tiger could be downgraded. They wrote all the excellent researched comments so many people do post now, complaining how the "best tank in the world" could be downgraded like that and blablabla...
The Tiger came back to earth, were it belongs. And now the T-34 goes the same way...nothing different, nothing unfair, just good research, good maths and a DESIRE TO DO THINGS RIGHT.
Thank you very much for this last, valuable PzIII vs T-34 test...great !!!
So you really belive, what your're saying ?
Do you want to make a battle against me ?
10 PzIII and 10 T-34 m41
Start distance at 2000m
Plain map from the editor, so no map advantage for either side
Equal experience and leadership values
Take the Pz III and if you score more then one lucky punch, you win.
But I think, if you just think it over a minute, you'll see, that we don't even have to start the battle to know, what the result will be.
...unbelievable, this amount of "unqualified" comments... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
What's happening here is just what happened, when the godlike Tiger I was pushed of it's throne. Someone does remember the old days, when the Tiger I ruled the battlefield and nothing could stand against it ? It was, (and now something rare, I use AmmoSgts words <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ) something from the land of Myth and Fantasy. All kind of folks were yelling and screaming how the Tiger could be downgraded. They wrote all the excellent researched comments so many people do post now, complaining how the "best tank in the world" could be downgraded like that and blablabla...
The Tiger came back to earth, were it belongs. And now the T-34 goes the same way...nothing different, nothing unfair, just good research, good maths and a DESIRE TO DO THINGS RIGHT.
Thank you very much for this last, valuable PzIII vs T-34 test...great !!!
So you really belive, what your're saying ?
Do you want to make a battle against me ?
10 PzIII and 10 T-34 m41
Start distance at 2000m
Plain map from the editor, so no map advantage for either side
Equal experience and leadership values
Take the Pz III and if you score more then one lucky punch, you win.
But I think, if you just think it over a minute, you'll see, that we don't even have to start the battle to know, what the result will be.
...unbelievable, this amount of "unqualified" comments... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Mir nach, ich folge euch !
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sebagonzalez
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Uruguay
- Contact:
Maybe u r not getting the point that this tests were to prove the new armor ratings, and for that test works fine. Now, what u say is totally true.........in V6.1 against a human player, or when i played both sides...but in V7 is not that way.....why dont you try it some times, use the 50x40 map, visibility 25, weather 1 and 12 turns. Try it in V7 and shout up! I dont have more to say about this subject since i was clear enough in the first one.
Mierda....y ahora...que corno hago?