Lawrence of Arabia Gambit for the Rising Sun

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Why are the words "The Banana has a new plan!" running thru my mind? [&:]

MUUUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA. Yez.....the banana has a plan...and as soon as he gets out of this padded room.....you'll all see....yeah you will..........precious......

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi,

1 Drop a Paratroop Army onto USA from 100,000 Zepplins.
2 Walk backwards from China to India telling the Allies you are retreating
3. Sue for peace on Dec 7 1941 but refuse to sign the paper before March 1946
4. Hide
5. Build nothing but mines and mine the entire Pacific Ocean from PH to Tokyo.
6. Sink Saipan Tinian and Guam.
7. Drop beer on the Aussies, the Brits and the Dutch and get them to see things your way.
8. Convince the Soviets that the USA is planning to invade them.
9. Invest in American factories. You'll lose the war but have a lot of money afterwards.
10. Send out 10,000 turn 1 in PBEM and then never answer the return emails. All games will be forever stuck with Japan at her peak.

[:D][:D] ROTFL

You forgot No. 11 - the one I've been dreaming about: launch long range Paradrop using Betties flying off CVs, and capture that damned "United States" base deep inland.

O.

[Oleg Mastruko]

I think Hirohito's plan can't work at all, and am ready to volunteer as his USN PBEM opponent when the next patch comes out. Some parts of the plan are OK, but most of it is totally ridicolous. FE, how exactly do you plan to bypass and starve Singapore and Malaya? By driving your ships in front of Singaspore-based LBA? Invading Alaska? Invading smaller Hawaiian islands but not PH? Crazy ideas...

O.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi,

1 Drop a Paratroop Army onto USA from 100,000 Zepplins.
2 Walk backwards from China to India telling the Allies you are retreating
3. Sue for peace on Dec 7 1941 but refuse to sign the paper before March 1946
4. Hide
5. Build nothing but mines and mine the entire Pacific Ocean from PH to Tokyo.
6. Sink Saipan Tinian and Guam.
7. Drop beer on the Aussies, the Brits and the Dutch and get them to see things your way.
8. Convince the Soviets that the USA is planning to invade them.
9. Invest in American factories. You'll lose the war but have a lot of money afterwards.
10. Send out 10,000 turn 1 in PBEM and then never answer the return emails. All games will be forever stuck with Japan at her peak.

I am sensing some skepticism....

[:D]

[mogami]

Hi, I thought I was starting a new thread when I posted my top 10. I didn't mean to place in this thread (but it did give me the idea)
There is nothing wrong with his plan. Except for working out the details on how to execute it.

[Williamb]

Actually this stragety worked but for the allies not the Japanese.

the US "Island hopped" and avoided invading bases like rabaul and Truk. They simply bypassed them.

The thing is the US had the military might to do so. Japan doesnt.

[Alikchi2]

I like is the attention to the North Pacific/Alaska area. Has anyone considered an invasion of Japan from the north?

[Dereck]

I may be missing something, but it sounds like Hirohito is just setting himself up for a war of attrition against the United States. Considering that Japan's TOTAL production of warships of all types barely reached 200 and the US built more than that number in submarines alone a war of attrition is just what the US wants.

[Central Blue]

I can't help but wonder if he is picking out a new moniker.

[mogami]

Hi, WOW we are sure a mean bunch of Jackals. I just noticed his join date and post total. Poor guy comes in with an idea and we hoot him out of town. What the heck he might have fun trying it out. It's not like Japan has a library of fool proof plans to choose from.

[Dereck]

I didn't intend my post to be negative and if it was I apologize. It is definitely to the Japanese player's advantage to come up with a strategy to win before the industrial might of the American player can turn it into a game of attrition.

I've never played the Japanese player so the only strategy I ever have used has been US which has been to stay alive until I start out producing the Japanese.

Sorry about flaming you Hirohito - it definitely wasn't my intention.

[mogami]

"Attack that which can not be defended, and defend that which cannot be attacked"

Hi, While I am waiting for a PBEM turn to arrive I want to chew on this for a while and compare notes.

Attack that which cannot be defended is simple enough. It simply means exploit a weakness.

Defend that which cannot be attacked was tricky at first untilI realized that great commanders are always doing just that.

Wolfe at Quebec climbed up an undefended approch. It was undenfended because it could not be attacked. (or so it was thought)

Inchon, The Japanese in Malaya often flanked the enemy down impassable routes, the Ardennes several times. Look Out Mountain

Just find a place the enemy feels is so secure it does not require defending and see if you can move there undetected. Once there you might have turned the positions he is defending.

The danger is he might be right. Going where he thinks it silly might be silly. You have to recon to find out but not alert him what you are looking for.

Market Garden is an example of trying to go where the enemy would not be defending because it could not be attacked only to discover he was defending it.

So if you see recon planes over a base you don't think needs defending you might be getting a warning that the enemy is considering trying the impossible and if you let him he will make it work.

Japanese who don't keep a Home Defense might find US CV bombing Japan one day out of the blue.
That base that the enemy can't touch might be the first place he tries to go. If it works it is only because you considered what was possible impossible and you win wars by making what is not possible an accomplished fact.

From Japanese point of view in WITP The SRA is a done deal (attacking what cannot be defended) However outside that a problem appears. The Allies are defending everything vital. Even the areas Japan cannot reach. There are plenty of "can't be defended" But no
"can't be attacked " that are not defended. All the "can't be attacked" that are undefended bases are Japanese [X(]

[WiTP_Dude]

I also apologize if I was out of line. We've all had some silly ideas with this game at one time or another.

[Central Blue]

golly [he said, rubbing his toe in the dirt, stareing at his dirty fingernails]

he seemed like he was up for it.

Sticking with the land war metaphors... I'm not sure that Lao Tzu or Stonewall Jackson or Lawrence of Arabia can save the Confederacy or Imperial Japan once the Yanks/Allies find enough commanders willing to drink the same brand of whiskey Grant did. And I doubt that Tzu, Jackson, or Lawrence would have come at anything through a place like Alaska, which had nothing, and threatened nothing, except the people living there.

It's one thing to build an AlCan highway to truck supplies to Alaska and quite another thing to build a highway from Alaska to Seattle to support a land invasion intent on hooking up with US 12 and US 101 for future exploits.

Whatever tactical advantage IJ can gain from the theories presented by Hirohito is already represented in IJs early rampage through the imperial territories of England, Netherlands, US--the French being off the table by the time the game starts.

But I think it is fair to say that there is no possible strategic application of the theory in the game or the reality of that time *after* IJ attacks the US.

I think Uncle Buck is on to the strategic application when he suggests that Japan go after the old empires and avoid confrontation with the US entirely. I don't know how that could be modeled in the game, but I'll bet a lot of IJ players would rather play against the Commonwealth and Netherlands without haveing to deal with the US.

Could the game editor create a similar sort of exclusion zone around the Phillippines as exists around the Soviet Union?

Could the game editor create a series of trip wires that would increase the chances for an outbreak of war between the US and IJ? Accidental attacks on reinforcement convoys to the Philippines?

Given US reluctance to help European nations after the onslaught of Germany, I sort of wonder what would drive the US to declare war on IJ in this alternate history.

[Hirohito]

In my plan, you do conquer DEI, you just divide the conquest into two phases, phase I which begins on Dec 7, you conquer the "ring" beginning at Ambon Island and moving up through Timor, Flores, Somboewa, Bali, Java, and Sumatra. Coming from the Palau end you can provide air support from land bases and carriers returning from the extended PH operation. If you use McArthurs concept of using islands as permanent air craft carriers and have air craft ready to offload from transports as you take these islands over you never have to make landings outside of air cover.

In Phase II you take out Borneo and Celebes at your leisure. This puts all of DEI in your control quickly.

The oil and resources gained from conquering Inidia first make up for those not obtained in PI till later.

The number of bases that need to be stocked with planes and ships in the Alaska to NZ gauntlet are small, consisting of: Juneau, Midway, Johnson Island, Palmyra Island, Christmas Island, Guadalcanal, Santa Cruz Island, Espirito Santo, Efate, New Calendonia, and New Zealand. Now add to this the "ring" through DEI, Morotai, Ambon Island, Timor, Flores, Soembawa, Bali, Surabaya, Tiltijap, Batavia, Oosthaven, Palembang, and Medan.

Now add the Indian Ocean gauntlet, Adaman Island, Ceylon and wherever you decide to land on the west coast of India.

This plan requires a LOT of planning, no ships or planes can be sitting idle, you have to earn political points quickly so as to be able to divert forces from China and Korea, and you have to be very smart about what you build. You need LOTS of PT boats, DDs, CLs, submarines, and cheap to build naval attack planes, patrol planes and transport planes. I turn off most everything except naval construction and building naval attack planes and patrol planes.

The large numbers of troops that are freed up by not invading Malaya, Papua New Guinea, and PI can easily garrison the 26 bases needed for the gauntlet with a force that cannot be overcome by amphibious invasion until 44 or 45.

I would rather have to garrison and defend 26 bases than 2,600 which I would have to if I follow Japan's original plan of conquering everything everywhere.

Also, I didn't say NEVER conquer Malaya and PI, just do it after the gauntlet is up and running and you have made the allies bleed sufficiently.

Hirohito

[Hirohito]

Roosevelt was pushing the Empire into war in every way possible. Cutting off the Empires access to vital raw materials as he did was tantamount to a declaration of war in Japan's eyes. Japan could not have invaded DEI or Malaya or Burma or Australia without a US declaration of war, Roosevelt said as much many times. Roosevelt pretty much stated flat out that an attack on DEI, Malaya, Singapore, Burma, India, Australia, or Papua New Guinea was tantamount to an attack on US.

Also Roosevelt was fighting an undeclared war against Germany in the north atlantic, it was only a matter of time before Hitler got around to either provoking a declared war or declaring war himself. Roosevelt was itching for a fight.

The Alaska gambit makes sense even if it doesn't grant you access to the highways of the west coast simply because US troops, ships and planes that are defending against a possible threat from Alaska cannot also be attacking the Empire elsewhere. Harrassing forces can be left in Alaska if the gambit fails to gain a strong foothold just north of Seattle, these harrassing forces will tie up forces in disproportionate numbers defending against them.

One of the most cost productive things that a numericlly inferior force can do is to set up special strke forces that harrass the enemy because the numbers of forces needed to defend everywhere they might strike is always disproportionate.

The Lawrence gambit seeks to restrict the number of places that the Empire MUST defend to a handful while at the same time giving access to large numbers of targets that the Allies now have to defend.

Ships and planes that are on the bottom of the ocean cannot also be fighting you elsewhere. The Lawrence gambit seeks to put the Allies in the position of having to do numerous resupply efforts through hostile waters.

PI, Malaya, Singapore, Burma, Australia, India, Papua New Guinea, Borneo, and Celebes can be taken anytime after the gauntlet is up and running. Australia is tough, but not impossible. India has to be taken first, but the gauntlet has to be up and running before it is invaded, so the gauntlet has to be built as soon as possible.

I like my chances of freeing up huge numbers of troops from not invading everywhere and building incredibly tough defenses on a handful of bases and then harrassing anything that comes near until I decide to take out the list above at my leisure.

Hirohito

[Hirohito]

This plan has several objectives.
1. Create a gauntlet through which all Allied resupply efforts must pass so they can be attacked repeatedly, causing as much destruction to these ships and planes as possible.
2. Keep the number of bases involved in the gauntlet as small as possible so that they can be made as strong as possible.
3. Conquer India first. (Assumes gauntlet is up and running).
4. Obtain a foothold on the US West Coast to be used as a springboard for land attacks down the coast.
5. Conquer Australia after India falls.
6. Conquer the rest of the co-prosperity sphere at your leisure.

The main objective is to create a gauntlet through which allied supplies must pass and attack these supply forces causing them as much damage as possible. Alaska isn't the real target of the Alaska gambit, the real target is to get a foot hold just north of Seattle so that the west coast highway can be used. The Alaska gambit has to be done quickly. Even if it fails numbers of Allied forces tied up in defending the west coast highway and the numerous harrassing attacks against allied shipping between the west coast and HI will be in greater numbers than the forces harrassing them.

Following the plan the Empire originally used is a waste of my time, I know how that plan turns out.

Hirohito

[Hirohito]

Why would I do that, I stand by my plan. Those that attack it either don't understand it or have not really looked at the forces needed. I have. While not foolproof, that darned enemy always has plans of his own that have a way of upsetting my plans, it has a high chance of success.

I don't understand why everyone is saying that Japan does not have the forces necessary to garrison the small number of bases proposed in the Lawrence gambit, but they are recommending to just follow the plan the Japanese orignally used, which requires conquering and garrisoning, oh, let's see, about 10 times as many places? The counter arguments are not thought out, they basically seem to be saying "it won't work because it won't work".

I will post the forces to be stationed at each base in the guantlet so that we can see what we are really dealing with instead of conjecture.

Hirohito

[Hirohito]

Why do I need to own the game or read the manuals to develop a sound strategy for waging war? If the game is a decent representation of the actual capabilities of the two sides that wouldn't matter.

But, you are not correct, I do own the game and have read the manuals.

Hirohito

[Hirohito]

You do not understand the plan. I did not say that the US would be unmolested. On the contrary resupply efforts will be GREATLY molested. Planes have to sit at bases, The bases in the PI will be covered by bombing and strafing raids round the clock. Send all the planes of the quality the allies have in 1942 that you want to PI, I'll just sink the transports on the way in, blow them up on the airfields or shoot them down at my leisure. IF they become too big a nuisance, I'll invade PI at a later date.

I don't need the house rule you describe. I have more than enough warships to counter the warships the Allies have in DEI.

Not only does PH happen in my plan, but I add more forces to the strike force. I send three carrier task forces which rendezvous at the historic location. TF1 targets the ships in port, TF2 targets the airfields, TF3 targets the port facilities. I also send a large surface fleet that attack targets in the PH theatre opportunistically. These forces have plenty of Replenishment ships and stay on station at PH indefinitely. Try resupplying PH with 10 carriers, loads of seaplane tenders, and 100 warships lurking around.

Also, fast transports are sent from Kwajalein against each of the bases in the HI that are not PH hoping for a lucky break, that one of them will be undefend or lightly defended. Because of the "gamey" rule that everyone seems to insist on, this force moves to Wotje on Turn 1, so the forces actually move out AFTER the raid on PH begins.

Someone already said, "but what if it rains and the entire US navy moves into the hex occupied by the carriers"? To which I reply, "what navy"? You mean the one that is sunk at PH? Or the two carriers that are lurking about vs my ten? Or the third carrier based on the west coast? My 100 capital ships will take care of them if they do find the hex the carriers occupy and are silly enough to move to it.

I don't think the allies can keep a determined Japanese player from obtaining at least a foothold in the Hawaiin Islands, if the Japanese player has plenty of engineers, suppliies, planes, and ships to base at this foothold, you can make the Allied position in the HI pretty much untenable. This sets the US back at least six months.

It is interesting how everyone has such a negative opinion on a plan they don't understand, even though I explained it in large detail.

Hirohito