2 Questions: Tankodesantniki and 75L24 Heat

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:34 pm

In 7.0, the Tankodesantniki co. can be bought only with T-34 m.42 tanks. Is there any special reason for this? The formation stays the same all the way to '45, not replacing the m.42 with T-34/85's.

The other question, as far as I know the German 75mm /L24 gun was meant for infantry support, not shooting armor. I have noticed that the German SdKfz 251/9 with 75L24 has a penetration value of 85 IIRC, for the HEAT rounds. This seems quite a lot to me, expecially as this does not diminish over range. Same for the StuH42 105mm and perhaps other models. Were they actually this effective?

Del · Post by **Del** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:33 pm

HEAT round penetration does not dimish with range because they do not depend on velocity for penetration. That's why a low velocity tube can use them and have a high penetration value.

The warhead of the round is an explosive with a directional charge that projects the energy of the blast in the direction of the rounds travel. The energy is concentrated in a very small area. At least this is the way it was explained to me when we trained with LAWs. If I'm wrong feel free to correct or add to this.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:45 am

Thanks, but I'm already aware of that. Perhaps my question isn't quite clear enough. It's "alright" that the pen doesn't decrease over range, but I think it is still a very high penetration value compared to regular guns. That's what it is about.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:56 am

Yes, they were. Although, the spinning projectile tended (and tends) to disperse the explosive power. The issue at longer ranges is naturally, accuracy. Though the 105mm having a larger warhead, should have more destructive power than the 75mm, all things being otherwise equal.

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:09 am

I just tryed the Tankodesantniki formations and you can get t34/85 in the latest oobs 7.1 beta.
My question is, why are tanks now available with these formations??
What exactly does tankodesantniki mean anyway????

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Alby ]</p>

Rune Iversen · Post by **Rune Iversen** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:44 am

Originally posted by Alby:
I just tryed the Tankodesantniki formations and you can get t34/85 in the latest oobs 7.1 beta.
My question is, why are tanks now available with these formations??
What exactly does tankodesantniki mean anyway????

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Alby ]

"Tankodesantniki" means, literally translated, "Tank-rider", or "Tank-passenger", denoting the fact that these people would ride the tanks until commandeered to dismount and destroy the enemy.

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:50 pm

Thanks for the answers.

Alby: Though any infantry can ride tanks, I believe the reason why tankodesantniki have been included specifically, is that T-34's can load up to 8 men, meaning that an ordinery squad of 9 or 12 wouldn't fit.

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 7:48 pm

T34 M42 can carry 12, SU-85(T34 chasis) also. I have pictures of 9, 10 and even 11 Tank Desant riders on various models, so, I've modified the OOBs to allow for a dozen riders across the board.

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:55 am

AHHH now I know why the tanks were added, guess Tank riders need tanks to ride eh? heheh
thanks guys.

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:43 pm

Originally posted by Svennemir:

The other question, as far as I know the German 75mm /L24 gun was meant for infantry support, not shooting armor. I have noticed that the German SdKfz 251/9 with 75L24 has a penetration value of 85 IIRC, for the HEAT rounds. This seems quite a lot to me, expecially as this does not diminish over range. Same for the StuH42 105mm and perhaps other models. Were they actually this effective?

Hello

The penetration values are about correct. The penetration capability of a HEAT round depends of the diameter of the round. Modern rounds penetrate 5-7 times the round dia. Back in WW2 the fine details of the penetration process were not that well known so the figures are considerably lower.

Also HEAT round needs to explode a certain distance from the armour so that the penetrator 'jet' has time to form...this was missing from WW2 era rounds so that also lowered effectiveness.

Voriax
(an oldtimer returns... <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )

Khan7 · Post by **Khan7** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:26 pm

I believe including tanks in Tank Desant units is an attempt to force us to use the "correctly", just as unrealistically low carry capacities on tanks are an attempt to simulate real difficulties, "forcing" us to carry infantry "correctly" in trucks or APCs.

I do sort of have problems with the way the Tank Desant feature is implemented, with zero flexibility in what types of tanks you can get. I would be willing to accept that historically only certain types of tanks were used in this way, but currently there is only one available. Frankly if you ask me, it would have been simpler to leave things the way they had been, but I don't know the reasons for the change so I can't really knock it.

Matt