I have done it again! (CIV III)

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Charles2222
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Charles2222 »

ORIGINAL: Pippin

I am very interested in how you stop your cities from flipping? I mean, I have even had my capitol city flip on me once because the AI built a city too close to me. I do not DARE to attack a city and capture it, because as mentioned, all that happens is I quell the resistors, and POOF, all my precious tanks disappear just as I needed them for my counter-counter attacks.

Lets put it this way, even when I have luxouries, and I drop science funding to zero while putting happy spending up to 90%, and even spend all my time building culture, my cities still flip to an opponent who doesn’t even have a single city of his on my own continent!

For the love of God, if someone here has found an EASY exploit to stop this on diety I REALY REALY REALY would like to know!

For more of the basics, and as I said I don't think the flip chances are different on deity (and why on earth would you play deity if you don'y really grasp the flip issue?) your luxuries have nothing to do with 'culture' or the flip factor if you will. Each city builds culture, and I think there's an overall civ culture factor which play in there somewhere at times too. There's some screen or other (probably F1) which will show you the culture that city is producing. When you first have a city it won't be producing any. Should you place a new city beside an already established city, which has a good sized culture buildup, your city is toast. You have to learn not to ever do that, unless, of course, you have somethign like a huge amount of money and can speedup the cultural buildings to one turn builds, and 'then' you might be able to get away with that. I don't know what version you're on, but in Conquests the AI never builds a city within four hexes of your cities, and that's because of the danger of the flip.

Now realize, I'm a bigtime culture producer and don't start wars much myself, so if anybody, at least on the regent level, should be having cities flip to them it should be me. I can tell you that after playing maybe a 1000 turns, the most city flips I've seen have been 3 or 4 to me. It's when you park your cities as close to the other civs as you can that you'll run into trouble. I don't care what level you're playing, but if you're doing that it's a recipe for failure (and usually a fine way to start a war). The only break you might get that way is that on some of the outskirt cities the AI may not put any culture into them, but I wouldn't count ion it.

I'm just trying to give you a few basic pointers, but the finer points can be found in those forums. The culture producing buildings BTW, are the ones with the little musical notes beside them. One note produces one culture point a turn etc.
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Firefly »

ORIGINAL: Svennemir
For the love of God, if someone here has found an EASY exploit to stop this on diety I REALY REALY REALY would like to know!

For one thing, you could turn off the preference when starting a game, so no cities can flip.

When conquering cities, just don't put more than one defending unit into them if the city is not in immediate danger of being attacked. Don't quell the resisters. They may flip, but if there's only one unit in the city it isn't critical. Just exterminate the entire civilization you're fighting, and THEN quell all the resistors. They can't flip back when their original civilization doesn't exist. Of course this might be a pretty messy way, but it kind of works in my experience.

If you conquer an enemy city a long way from your borders, razing it is probably better than trying to keep it. If it's on the border, starve it down to one citizen by converting sll the inhabitants to specialists and when it grows back the new citizens will be of your nationality and less likely to flip. Once you've quelled the resistance, rush building a temple and a library will help. Doing both of these will not eliminate all flips, particularly if the captured city is close to the enemy capital (in which case razing may be better), but it will help.
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Charles2222
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Charles2222 »

Good general advice there Firefly.
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Pippin
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Pippin »

I do know quite a bit about the culture process. The first things I go for are culture points. I will rush build culture as fast as possible and yes I am well aware if you build too far away from your capitol or too close to someone else you risk the flip.

Also, it seems to me that luxouries do help your folks. You want to keep them happy, because when they are not it helps to increase a flip on you. I will try to make my folks as happy as possible, not only does this help to prevent flips, but it also helps the production.

I am a bit puzzled though on why it is mentioned here that fliping is not different on diety, when I have seen time and time again that it certainly is biased on diety. Also, one of the links mentioned here even explains somewhere that diety contains a high modifier which gives the AI extra flip advantages, while you of course get the opposite.

Has someone here beat the game on diety, or is this just speculation?
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Charles2222
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Charles2222 »

The way I look at it culture and happiness are completely different things. The only way they're similar is that you can lose control of the town. Rioting is due to lack of happiness and flipping is due to lack of culture. I'm sure there's a good number of us who have built towns and still just had one man in it, only to see it flip relatively soon, which of course means in most instances like that, that such a town was content and still it flipped.
Svennemir
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Svennemir »

I'm fairly certain that cities in civil disorder have much higher chance of flipping. If they are in "we love the..." mode, flipping is highly unlikely.
Firefly
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Firefly »

ORIGINAL: Pippin



I am a bit puzzled though on why it is mentioned here that fliping is not different on diety, when I have seen time and time again that it certainly is biased on diety. Also, one of the links mentioned here even explains somewhere that diety contains a high modifier which gives the AI extra flip advantages, while you of course get the opposite.


There is a utility at CivFanatics called FlipCalc which will calculate the chance of a particular city flipping. It's available in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=53157

The author gives the formula for the probability (which he got from one the Firaxis guys) as:
P=[(F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) - G]/D

where:
P = probability that it will flip this turn
F = # foreigners, with resistors counting double
T = # working tiles under foreign control (out of the max of 21, no matter what the cultural boundaries are atm)
Cc = 2 if foreign civ has more local culture than you, 1 otherwise
H = .5 for WLTKD, 2 for disorder, 1 otherwise
Cte = Total culture of the foreign civ
Cty = Total culture of your civ
G = # garrison units
D = factor based on relative distance to capitals

(Spelling corrected :) )

Soren Johnson (the Firaxis guy) expands on the value of D in this thread at Apolyton:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.p ... adid=48254
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Charles2222
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Charles2222 »

I would think if that were true, for my current game, I would see more then 2 cities (recently conquered) with any kind of flip percentage at all, as I commonly run my cities to one guy above contented. Crpmapstat shows you the percentage each turn that a location will flip, but of course if you change the situation mid-turn the percentage won't change in that program until the start of the next turn.

I always thought the situation (apart from rebellions of course) had something to do with the pop's happiness quotient too, but then I saw crpmapstat and know how my cities never flip (but then being a culture hog would certainly help my chances). It can be a little deceptive though, because my use of crpmapstat is confines to a small sample. Perhaps I should load one of the games where that nation is teetering on rebellion?
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Charles2222
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RE: I have done it again! (CIV III)

Post by Charles2222 »

Okay, got it.

I loaded up the start of the Phoenix WWII scenario with France. I count 18 cities in unhappy status. I also count only 3 cities with any chance to flip (although it listed a 0.0% for some reason - so actually 2 with a chance to flip). The two cities were bordered by other civs, with Calais having more than one city threatening it culturally, which gave it the highest percentage. Sad face cities will rebell the next turn, so why aren't the other 16 showing a chance to flip then? Clearly they have to border another nation for a start.

I used to believe as you guys, but that informatio makes me believe that only an active rebellion would matter with flipping as far as happiness is concerned. I see no city that was content, and a good deal of them were, which were also running a flip percentage. I mean if Calais is running .385% chance with unhappy pop. then wouldn't a content pop bordering another nation's city be at lease .001% if a stronger happiness mattered? I'm not sure how this thinking would be wrong.

Oh BTW, I just thought of something. Maybe my limited sample is the problem, but this scenario doesn't have expanding borders that I can detect and there aren't any buildings that promote culture. Goofy still, because if this peculiarity mattered, then why do any of them flag a percentage (Calais is a mere 2 hexes from Dover)?
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