WiF strategy quiz for Japan

[meyerg]

Name the neutral country most Japanese players try to jump early in the latest edition of WiF. Clue: this country has oil.
greg

[Mziln]

Dutch East Indies - If Germany declaires war on Holland.

[meyerg]

Clarification: by early i mean S/O or N/D '39.
I play aggressively and even I will not take East Indies in '39. To take this country in S/O '39 requires at least three impulse.
greg

[vonpaul]

Persia[:D]

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: vonpaul

Persia[:D]

Nope, Persia is conqured by the U.S.S.R. on the first clear weather turn after occupying Eastern Poland and the Baltic States.

[meyerg]

Not if Japan gets it first.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Nope, Persia is conqured by the U.S.S.R. on the first clear weather turn after occupying Eastern Poland and the Baltic States.

Japan can always DoW Russia while the Bear is taking Persia, take Vladivostok and a couple of resources. Then if Russia tries to come out there to fight in '40, set up a defensive perimeter in Siberia and go invade Persia from Siam. Of course, this is not hammering on the Chinese. Rather than fighting to reclaim territory in Siberia, the Russians can always go to peace instead, their most advisable course, assuming that option is chosen. If Persia is what the Japanese want, on the other hand, they could postpone taking Vladivostok, denying the Russians a forced peace.

[Mziln]

The Soviets advancing from [72,82] attack Tehran on the first turn first clear weather pahse after phase one with a 6-4, a 5-4, a 1-5, and 1 or 2 bombers. Persia is captured.

You can always rail the Soviet Armored infantry Army from Penza [46, 71] into Siberia on first phase (arrives in Krasnoyarsk [40, 121]). Assuming Japan dosn't declare war on the Soviets prior to Soviet invasion of Persia.



Closest Japanese base for operations against Persia on turn one is Fukuoka Japan [78, 158]. First naval movement phase will get transports and amphibs to Bay of Bengal.

Assuming Japan can land a force at Bandar Shapar [81, 77] and advances toward Tehran (Capital of Persia). It will take at least 2 land movement phases for the land force to reach and attack Tehran.



[:)] The Dutch East Indies are closer than Persia and require less convoys. [:)]

A Japanese Dutch East Indies deprives the Commonwealth player of 2 oil. The down side 2 political chits and 80% probability of a third.

A Soviet Persia deprives the Commonwealth of 1 oil. The down side 90% probability of removal of a political chit.


Commonwealth down 3 oil.

[meyerg]

Mziln, do you think Dutch East Indies is worth 2.8 entry chits early? I have never even considered this (although this doesn't mean it isn't a good idea). I do consider Persia a good option (unless Russia is set up for it).
greg

[Mziln]

It's an option that reduces Commonwealth resources.

Consider this:

Soviets vs. Persia

(1) The Soviets will only receive 2 of the 4 Persian oil resources because 2 are not connected to the rail net. This is a slight increase for the Soviets.

(2) The Soviets are Neutral and can't use the Suez Cannal. Convoys necessary to get the other 2 oil will need to come from Vladivostok.

(3) I have never liked the way the Soviet Navy is deployed it is easily destroyed by German air units. Relocating to Archangel would allow the Soviet Navy to defend convoys going to Murmansk.

Japan vs. Netherlands

(1) Since you get a political action chit each turn. 3 chits are equal to a 3 turn increase on possiable U.S.A. entry.

(2) Japan gets to practice Naval and amphibious operations against a weak enemy.

(3) Japan gets 4 oil resources early.

(4) Japan needs to declare war with Holland before Germany adds them to the Allies.

Strategically

Japan has a eaisly defended convoy route to NEI oil when war starts. If Japan takes Persia you will be pressed to continue to receive Persian oil. Japan can still go to war in Siberia to take 3 resources from the Soviets to offset the invasion of Persia when they are ready.

The Commonwealth has had its available resources reduced and India is seriously threatened.

The U.S.A. is now encirclerd in the Phillipines.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

(3) Japan gets 4 oil resources early.

Since early in the war Japan gets two of these oil anyway as part of a trade agreement, I don't think it is quite worth it. Facing the behemoth of the Americans three turns early for two extra resources a turn, even with the cost to CW oil, just doesn't seem worth it. I like to put off war with the U.S. as long as possible. Still, there is compensation as you've pointed out, so it's probably somewhat a matter of taste.

[Droop21]

Unless rules changed recently, taking on the NEI has a huge drawback: the USA get an extra entry chit per turn[:-]. If I'm playing an allied, do declare war to the NEI in 1939, So I can be on a war footing by late 1940 [:D]. If you go for a USSR strategy and don't want to capture Vlad, beware of the Soviet subs (a devious Soviet player will go for your US convoy chain)

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Droop

Unless rules changed recently, taking on the NEI has a huge drawback: the USA get an extra entry chit per turn[:-].

I didn't find this in the rules or charts included with CWiF. Is this part of the RAW [&:]

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln


I didn't find this in the rules or charts included with CWiF. Is this part of the RAW [&:]

yes, just checked it against the current charts for WiFD; one extra chit per turn if Japan DoW's the Dutch, the British, or the French. I guess the NEI are not such a good early option after all.

[vonpaul]

Its been like that for ages (if not from the start of Final edition)

[Mziln]

CWiF > Tools > Rules Ctrl-L

13.3.3 US ENTRY ACTIONS
33. Japan declares war on the CW, France or Netherlands (Ja) 3 & 5 (add two chits + 80% chance of another)


NOTES FOR US ENTRY ACTIONS:

3. The USA also picks 1 extra chit a turn for each action (except conquests by surrender). It must go into the marked entry pool.

5. Rolled once per city, major power, neutral minor country or search.



[&:] "Conquests by surrender" is is not defined in CWiF [&:]

I assume it meens like the option CWiF gives the Commonwealth player to align Poland. While Search refers to "Search and Seizure".


Russia Conquers Persia First

31. USSR declares war on (Ge/It): Other minor (in this case Persia) or Vichy France 5 (90% chance to remove chit)

9. Japan declares war on USSR (Ja) (70% chance to add a chit)

(IMO) Japan now fights a land campaign in Siberia instead of Persia and ignores China. This will weaken Japan and the Soviets. How much depends on the length of the war.

There are no notes on how to establish "Neutrality Pacts" (where is Molotov when you need him?) and this assumes there will be no "Manual Setup".

Note: I cut and pasted only the relevant lines from the CWiF charts.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

....
Conquests by surrender" is is not defined in CWiF
....
....
There are no notes on how to establish "Neutrality Pacts" (where is Molotov when you need him?) and this assumes there will be no "Manual Setup".
....

Surrender and neutrality pacts had not yet been implemented in Marinacci's beta, if I remember correctly.

13.7.6 Surrender
During any peace step, you can surrender a home country of a major power that controls less than half the printed factory stacks in the home country. You can surrender a home country with no printed factories if there is an enemy land unit there.
Treat the surrender of a home country as a complete conquest (see 13.7.1) of the major power if it doesn’t control any aligned minors. Otherwise it is incompletely conquered.

The rule for neutrality pacts is much longer, but you can download the current RaW from ADG's site if you want to read it.

[Mziln]

[:(] But th NEI is not a major power.

As I stated previously Germany would invade Holland and Japan the NEI.

13.7.1 Conquest

You can only conquer a home country or territory if you are at war with
the major power or minor country that controls it.
All conquest in a turn occurs simultaneously.

Minor countries never conquer anything. The home country or territory
is instead conquered by the minor’s controlling major power (unless it
is not at war, see 2.5).

You cannot conquer a conquered minor country or territory. You may
only liberate or revert it (see 13.7.5).


Complete conquest

When a major power or minor country no longer controls its own or any
aligned home country, it has been completely conquered. Thereafter, it
is at peace with everyone it was at war with.


So the question is:

If Germany Conquers Holland and Japan the NEI does the extra chit draw per turn stop [&:]

Has "Conquest by Surrender" occured [&:]

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

As I stated previously Germany would invade Holland and Japan the NEI.

If Germany Conquers Holland and Japan the NEI does the extra chit draw per turn stop [&:]

Has "Conquest by Surrender" occured [&:]

Surrender only occurs at the defending power's discretion... and the CW won't surrender. The NEI are under the control of the Dutch, who most likely are under the control of the English. The Japanese can be at war with the Dutch and not with the CW:

...You can only conquer a home country or territory if you are at war with
the major power or minor country that controls it.

So, to conquer the NEI requires a DoW on the Netherlands proper. If the Germans conquer the Dutch, the government in exile will probably be in the NEI.

No way around the extra chit per turn.

[Mziln]

On to the conquest of Dutch Guyana (the other NE minor power), complete conquest, and peace. [X(]

[:D] "Has the Emperor taken New York yet?" - Mad Magazine. [:D]

Reasons the Soviets should conquer Persia

All rules listed can be found in WiF-RAW-7-aug-04.

(1) The oil of course.

(2) This gives them another Minor Power besides Mongolia in case of rule "13.7.6 Surrender". This Assumes that the Soviets haven't implemented rule "19.12 The Ukraine (option 62)".

(3) This stops rule "19.7 Axis minor countries - Persia and Iraq" from being implemented.