I gotta admit, I find it amusing the back-n-forth

[Feinder]

If I look at the threads in this forum...

1. Night bombing You can't stop it! It's gamey! The Allies can bomb Japan into the stone age, and Japan can do nothing about it! Japan has no hope of winning!

2. China You can't keep Japan from rolling China! You're doomed to lose if you're the Allies!

3. ASW Even with the patch, Allied ASW is still over-powered. You're an uber-goober if you pack your ASW TFs! Japan will collapse by 1943!

4. The KB DeathStar It can't be stopped! Allied players are doomed, because nothing can stand against the awesome power to the galaxies most powerful battlestation! Surrender your planets at once!

5. PT boats The scourge of the Pacific! IJN can't stop these little bastards even with battleships! With a few of these, the Allies can take down all of the IJN in just 6 months!

6. Allied AC The Allies don't get any "cool" advanced model aircraft! The Japanese get their neato toys from 1945, but we're stuck with the 1944 models! How can we possibly win?!

7. IJA Pilots Japan's pilot pools are too small! We're is doomed to have 6 year olds flying our aircraft by November of '42! How can we possibly compete with the Allied pilots who cover the earth like locusts!

8. Allied respawning CVs The Allies will surely dominate, because they have an endless supply of CA/CL/CVs! What's the point of sinking anything, when they majikally rise from the depts 2 years later?!

So which is it, shall I go on...

[:)]

-F-

[Mr.Frag]

[:D]

I'm an Axis Allied Fanboy ... gotta cover all my bases eh?

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

If I look at the threads in this forum...

1. Night bombing You can't stop it! It's gamey! The Allies can bomb Japan into the stone age, and Japan can do nothing about it! Japan has no hope of winning!

2. China You can't keep Japan from rolling China! You're doomed to lose if you're the Allies!

3. ASW Even with the patch, Allied ASW is still over-powered. You're an uber-goober if you pack your ASW TFs! Japan will collapse by 1943!

4. The KB DeathStar It can't be stopped! Allied players are doomed, because nothing can stand against the awesome power to the galaxies most powerful battlestation! Surrender your planets at once!

5. PT boats The scourge of the Pacific! IJN can't stop these little bastards even with battleships! With a few of these, the Allies can take down all of the IJN in just 6 months!

6. Allied AC The Allies don't get any "cool" advanced model aircraft! The Japanese get their neato toys from 1945, but we're stuck with the 1944 models! How can we possibly win?!

7. IJA Pilots Japan's pilot pools are too small! We're is doomed to have 6 year olds flying our aircraft by November of '42! How can we possibly compete with the Allied pilots who cover the earth like locusts!

8. Allied respawning CVs The Allies will surely dominate, because they have an endless supply of CA/CL/CVs! What's the point of sinking anything, when they majikally rise from the depts 2 years later?!

So which is it, shall I go on...

[:)]

-F-

Dunno - I guess if your approach is that "it's a game" all this is funny. If your approach is "it's a sim" then, well, not so funny.

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

If I look at the threads in this forum...

1. Night bombing You can't stop it! It's gamey! The Allies can bomb Japan into the stone age, and Japan can do nothing about it! Japan has no hope of winning!

2. China You can't keep Japan from rolling China! You're doomed to lose if you're the Allies!

3. ASW Even with the patch, Allied ASW is still over-powered. You're an uber-goober if you pack your ASW TFs! Japan will collapse by 1943!

4. The KB DeathStar It can't be stopped! Allied players are doomed, because nothing can stand against the awesome power to the galaxies most powerful battlestation! Surrender your planets at once!

5. PT boats The scourge of the Pacific! IJN can't stop these little bastards even with battleships! With a few of these, the Allies can take down all of the IJN in just 6 months!

6. Allied AC The Allies don't get any "cool" advanced model aircraft! The Japanese get their neato toys from 1945, but we're stuck with the 1944 models! How can we possibly win?!

7. IJA Pilots Japan's pilot pools are too small! We're is doomed to have 6 year olds flying our aircraft by November of '42! How can we possibly compete with the Allied pilots who cover the earth like locusts!

8. Allied respawning CVs The Allies will surely dominate, because they have an endless supply of CA/CL/CVs! What's the point of sinking anything, when they majikally rise from the depts 2 years later?!

So which is it, shall I go on...

[:)]

-F-

Well, the editor can fix this all with a Vengeance. I just got beaten as the Japs, so I beefed up the Japs....but now my PBEM opponent is the Japs so I have to face beefed up Japs. O, the humanity. Talk about back and forth. Lotta fun though.

[Twotribes]

Of course you got beaten by the Allies. The Japanese shouldnt win LOL.

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Of course you got beaten by the Allies. The Japanese shouldnt win LOL.

I thought I was doing Okay....but wasn't....it was my own fault, though the little Empire has many odd problems.

[Mark VII]

Feinder; good post![;)]

however:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

7. IJA Pilots Japan's pilot pools are too small! We're is doomed to have 6 year olds flying our aircraft by November of '42! How can we possibly compete with the Allied pilots who cover the earth like locusts!

[:)]

-F-

Give me 200 6-year olds like my nephew Zack and I will take any one on. He can fly anything, shoots down everyone and rarely gets shot down himself. Of course this is on playstation 2 with the various flight sims. He is at least a 95 experience and 99 morale (never gets tired) in WitP terms.[:D][:D][:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

Here's a completely goofy question. Should I get so terminally bored that I would want to spend the time doing it, is it possible to put people in the database? As a pilot, for example?

[Feinder]

For the record,

I was simply commenting that both sides are paranoid that their side is hopelessly gimped. Which doesn't really make any sense if you think about it. How can someone say that the Allies are assured destruction because China will cave, and then in the next breath, say that Japan's war prospects don't last beyond March 42 because their pilot pool is completely depleted.

I call good it old fashioned pros and cons. Even if you can roll China (remains to be seen in my own games), Japan has it's own set of obsticles. It's your job as a player to minimize your own weaknesses, and capitalize on your strengths.

Sure there are issues with the game. That's thing about public release, you now have thousands of players (obviously with -WAY- too much time on their hands) trying to figure out even the smallest detail which will give them an advantage over their opponent (whether it's a bug or just simply an exploitation of initial disposition of forces).


-F-

[Brausepaul]

Very good post, Feinder. Apparently both sides are over-undered [:'(]

[MengCiao]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Here's a completely goofy question. Should I get so terminally bored that I would want to spend the time doing it, is it possible to put people in the database? As a pilot, for example?

Like Zak Six or Gary Seven?

[mlees]

Like Capt William B. Rogers...
Like Mark Lees...[8D]

[madflava13]

How about Art Vandelay? Or Mr. Pennypacker...

[ltfightr]

Feinder:

I agree with your assesment.

I find the game very playable and enjoyable are there some things that still need to be fixed YES. Are they game breakers not to me.

Ps I will have the turn back to you when I get home from work.

[erstad]

Feinder:

Good post, but you missed one I saw recently:
The Japanese can put their kamikaze's on night attack and the Allies can't fly CAP so free victory points for the Japanese with nothing the Allies can do!

With due respect to those that want this to be a fully accurate sim, it is, after all, a game. If you think something is broken and completely unbalances things or takes all the fun out, find someone who agrees and play with them. I'm not arguing that there aren't bugs that need fixing, but not all bugs are game-killers. For example (taking a pre-1.3 example to avoid some of the current emotion) "There is a coding error that makes high altitude bombing way too accurate. My opponent is taking advantage of that bug and killing me, and there's nothing I can do!" Well... you can make sure he knows that there is a bug, and ask him to stop exploiting it. We're all adults here. (I know, the how old/how young thread showed we're not all adults, but my guess is that a 15 year old with the interest and discipline to master WitP is above the adult median for maturity).

[Tanaka]

hehehe. good post!!! [:D]


but as you can see most of these are allied advantages!!! no fair!!! no fair!!! [:'(][:D]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: erstad

With due respect to those that want this to be a fully accurate sim, it is, after all, a game.

Well, except it wasn't marketed entirely as a game now, was it? I remember when I first read the blurbs Matrix/3x5 was distributing, there was something about it being used as a training sim for the New Zealand armed forces or some such claim. Don't see that on the web now - wonder if some one in NZ decided it was no sim and cancelled the contract.

[pasternakski]

Well, you might want to read what some of have been posting a little more closely on your rush to humor.

I am not so concerned with my side's ox getting gored as I am with shoddy quality control throughout the entire design process, exacerbated by willy-nilly "fixes" that do nothing but divorce the game further from historical simulation.

The ground combat, movement, and "stacking" mechanics are just one example of poorly-thought-through design planning. Information on the subject of simulating land campaigns on an operational level is available from numerous sources. These, I suggest, should have been consulted before we wound up paying for a game that allows the Japanese (and, to a lesser extent, the Allies) to overachieve alarmingly and for the game to move at a pace completely unrealistic when compared to what was possible historically.

As I have said before, I am no chauvinist. I enjoy my victories and suffer my defeats just as willingly with either side.

I merely wish that the game presented the possibilities and capabilities in a way that would convince me that I am being inserted, to the degree a simulation game can do, into the command situation those who conducted the war actually faced. Further, I wish we were moving in that direction instead of following the "we want a balanced game" gonfalon.

[bstarr]

uber-goober

[:D]

sorry, but that cracked me up and I just had to say something.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Well, you might want to read what some of have been posting a little more closely on your rush to humor.

I am not so concerned with my side's ox getting gored as I am with shoddy quality control throughout the entire design process, exacerbated by willy-nilly "fixes" that do nothing but divorce the game further from historical simulation.

The ground combat, movement, and "stacking" mechanics are just one example of poorly-thought-through design planning. Information on the subject of simulating land campaigns on an operational level is available from numerous sources. These, I suggest, should have been consulted before we wound up paying for a game that allows the Japanese (and, to a lesser extent, the Allies) to overachieve alarmingly and for the game to move at a pace completely unrealistic when compared to what was possible historically.

As I have said before, I am no chauvinist. I enjoy my victories and suffer my defeats just as willingly with either side.

I merely wish that the game presented the possibilities and capabilities in a way that would convince me that I am being inserted, to the degree a simulation game can do, into the command situation those who conducted the war actually faced. Further, I wish we were moving in that direction instead of following the "we want a balanced game" gonfalon.

I dont really think this game allows the Japanese to overachieve more than the Allies. I think since everyone knows what more to do as the Japanese than the Japanese did that most will overacheive. I also think that since most of us have only played to 43 at the most that the Japanese will always be seen as overachieving because they will have the advantage up until then. Im sure as soon as people start playing past 43 that the allies will be overachieving even more soon as well!!!

This doesnt mean I dont think there is still a lot to be fixed in this game!!!