Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 50 ships in day and night)...

[Mr.Frag]

Just in time for me to take off [:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.

I promised you and promise is a promise (and my word)... I will do that test as well...


Leo "Apollo11"

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.

I promised you and promise is a promise (and my word)... I will do that test as well...

Well, I can at least wait till you've eaten dinner. [:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

As promised here are test results against port only.



Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There is nothing (no LCU's and aircraft) at Wake Island and no ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-29's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).


5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 89


No Allied losses

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80


No Allied losses

Port hits 12
Port fuel hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 84


No Allied losses

Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 84


No Allied losses

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 87


No Allied losses

Port hits 14
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 72


No Allied losses

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


Discussion:

At first glance it is obvious that there are more hits on port/supply/fuel now (when there is nothing on Wake except empty port) compared to when there were ships in port as well.

Please note that originally Wake had 50000 supplies and 10000 fuel at start (one can calculate actual loss using number of hits and this info).


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S. [Edit]
I have eaten my dinner... [;)]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

As promised here are test results when B-29's are weakened to resemble G4M1 Betty's.


IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I only changed B-29 aircraft Durability and Armor to be same as G4M1 Betty.


Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-29's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).


5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 2 destroyed, 23 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
312 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 83


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 22 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 6
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 86


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 6 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
451 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
19 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 79


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 10 destroyed, 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
611 casualties reported
Guns lost 22

Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
17 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 4 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
416 casualties reported
Guns lost 21

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************



1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 45


Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
25 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************


Discussion:

As expected B-29's when weakened to be similar to G4M1 Betty (Durability and Armor wise) suffered much more damage and destroyed aircraft compared to all previous runs (i.e. when B-29's were normal B-29's).


Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:


Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):

105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6


Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):

105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8


Thus there were (in total):

105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44


Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Mr.Frag]

Thanks Leo ... care to try the runs at 6k and 1k?

[dtravel]

Okay, just to baffle everyone equally, I created a spreadsheet to determine what percentage of the bombs dropped were hitting something. I input all the daylight attack Apollo11 ran except the one where he modified the B-29 to resemble a Betty. Format is as follows:

Target Merchants
Plane Type B-29
# planes 89 92 87 86 90
# bombs/plane 40 40 40 40 40
Total # bombs 3560 3680 3480 3440 3600

Port Hits 10 5 4 5 4
Fuel Hits 0 2 1 3 0
Supply Hits 2 2 0 2 4
Ship Hits 62 44 14 37 31
Total # hits 74 53 19 47 39


Hit Percentage: 2.08% 1.44% 0.55% 1.37% 1.08%

Avg Hit % 1.30%


Target indicates what was in port, aircraft type, # of planes, # bombs/plane and total bombs should be reasonably obvious.

Port, Fuel and Supply hits are pulled straight from the combat reports posted and assume each is one bomb hitting. Ship hits is the total of "bomb hits" from the combat reports. Total # of hits is, obviously, those four totalled.

Hit Percentage is (Total # hits) divided by (Total # bombs), expressed as a percentage. Avg Hit % is the five Hit Percentages averaged.

Argghhhh [:@]. I can't put multiple spaces or tabs in to format that, so it is almost impossible to read. So I'm just going to type in the percentages and avg percentages. Spreadsheet (Excel) is available for anyone who wants to double check it, just send me a PM.

B-29s vs. Merchants: 2.08%, 1.44%, 0.55%, 1.37%, 1.08%. Avg: 1.30%
B-29s vs. Warships: 1.88, 1.53, 1.95, 1.67, 1.25. Avg. 1.65 (Dropping the '%' symbol, faster to type without it.)
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Merchants: 0.78, 1.34, 1.80, 2.03, 1.62. Avg. 1.51
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Warships: 1.79, 1.37, 1.14, 1.51, 1.38. Avg. 1.44
B-17Es vs. Merchants: 8.33, 5.56, 8.97, 5.80, 5.36. Avg. 6.80
B-17Es vs. Warships: 2.78, 3.85, 3.88, 3.52, 2.51. Avg. 3.31
B-25Cs vs. Merchants: 10.07, 18.84, 9.24, 16.14, 12.14. Avg. 13.29
B-25Cs vs. Warships: 9.55, 9.55, 9.63, 7.89, 9.42. Avg. 9.21
B-29s @30K vs. Merchants: 0.25, 0.19, 0.20, 0.28, 0.38. Avg. 0.25
B-29s @30K vs. Warships: 0.35, 0.17, 0.60, 0.09, 0.17. Avg. 0.28
B-29s vs. Merchants w/AAA: 2.18, 2.36, 1.28, 1.52, 1.94. Avg. 1.86
B-17Es vs. Merchants w/AAA: 8.62, 5.31, 4.12, 8.15, 5.82. Avg. 6.41
B-25Cs vs. Merchants w/AAA: 5.32, 7.45, 7.35, 5.67, 13.12. Avg. 7.78
B-29s vs. No ships in port: 0.70, 0.56, 0.83, 0.42, 0.69. Avg. 0.64

Observations in following post.

[dtravel]

Okay, first some disclaimers. We really don't have a large enough sample. 100 runs of each set of parameters would be better, especially considering the very low percentages for some of these results. Also, for the runs with AAA units LCU casualties are ignored, I have no way of factoring those in. (How many bombs did it take to cause those losses?)

B-29s have trouble hitting the broadside of a fricking city. Even at only 10,000 feet (Apollo's base parameter) we're talking about around 1.5% under the best conditions. It is hard to draw any conclusions about warships vs. merchants using B-29s because with percentages that low, random chance plays too big a role. Altitude does seem to have an effect, dropping the accuracy from around 1.5% to around 0.25%

B-17s under the same conditions do much better than the B-29s. Versus merchant shipping they did 6.80% compared to the B-29s 1.30% and versus warships they did 3.31% compared to 1.65%. It gets even worse with B-25s, they do two to three times better than the B-17s. Remember, this is with the aircraft dropping from the same altitude and having the same experience. The aircraft you assign matters! Big time.

Ships in port versus no ships seems to indicate that hit percentage drops by half. But the numbers are already so low it is hard to tell. If we can persuade Apollo to run the 'no ships' variant with B-17s and B-25s also, then perhaps some kind of conclusion can be drawn.

AAA it is hard to tell. The B-29s actually did slightly better, but again, the percentages are already so low that random fluctations made it hard to draw conclusions. The B-17s did about the same while the B-25s did significantly worse. It appears that the larger the bomber, the less it is affected by AAA.

[dtravel]

And just to bury people in some more numbers (but mostly 'cause I only just now thought of it), here are the percentages figured as (Total # hits) divided by (# of aircraft).

B-29s vs. Merchants: 83.15, 57.61, 21.84, 54.65, 43.33. Avg: 52.12
B-29s vs. Warships: 75.00, 61.11, 77.91, 66.67, 50.00. Avg: 66.14
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Merchants: 31.33, 53.66, 72.00, 81.18, 61.71. Avg: 60.57
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Warships: 71.79, 54.65, 45.57, 60.26, 55.29. Avg: 57.51
B-17Es vs. Merchants: 100.00, 66.67, 107.61, 69.57, 61.37. Avg: 81.64
B-17Es vs. Warships: 33.33, 46.15, 46.59, 42.22, 30.12. Avg: 39.68
B-25Cs vs. Merchants: 60.42, 113.04, 55.43, 96.84, 72.83. Avg: 79.71
B-25Cs vs. Warships: 57.29, 57.30, 57.78, 47.31, 56.52. Avg: 55.24
B-29s @30K vs. Merchants: 10.00, 7.59, 8.05, 11.24, 13.95. Avg: 10.17
B-29s @30K vs. Warships: 14.12, 6.82, 24.14, 3.66, 6.85. Avg: 11.12
B-29s vs. Merchants w/AAA: 87.36, 94.51, 51.22, 60.71, 77.78. Avg: 74.31
B-17Es vs. Merchants w/AAA: 103.45, 63.74, 49.44, 97.80, 69.89. Avg: 76.86
B-25Cs vs. Merchants w/AAA: 31.91, 44.68, 44.09, 34.04, 78.72. Avg: 46.69
B-29s vs. No ships in port: 28.09, 22.50, 33.33, 16.67, 27.59. Avg: 25.64

[2ndACR]

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo? [&:]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo? [&:]

Apollo

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo? [&:]

Apollo

[:o]

[BoerWar]

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

I'd say undamaged aircraft could use a roll upon mission completion to see if they become "damaged" after each mission to simulate all manner of ops readiness issues which plagued aircraft (landing accidents, powerplant problems, airframe/rigger issues etc).

[BoerWar]

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.


I'd say undamaged aircraft could use a roll upon mission completion to see if they become "damaged" after each mission to simulate all manner of ops readiness issues which plagued aircraft (landing accidents, powerplant problems, airframe/rigger issues etc).

Sounds reasonable. 4 engines means 4 times the possibility for maintenance problems.

[Knavey]

Ah,

But although this is showing the B-29s are having problems with accuracy against city targets, I submit that you do not have to be particularly accurate with the B-29 that is carrying the atomic bombs!

Just a bit of humor...and now back to your regularly scheduled bombing.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

Look again. He ran the same day over and over. All of the Combat Reports are for 06/01/44.

[Mr.Frag]

Look again. He ran the same day over and over. All of the Combat Reports are for 06/01/44.

Naw, it's because all the ships were sunk after the first day [:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

I run my TEST scenario every time anew (i.e. for 5 + 1 times I loaded and played my scenario for each test).

Perhaps even better way would be to completely exit from WitP in between each loading of scenario but it was too much hussle...


Leo "Apollo11"