Concentration of effort for Scenario Mod.

[akdreemer]

I have some time to contribute. I have litterally spent hundreds of hours researching and designing OOB's and TOE's for The Operational Art of War. I have studied the Pacific War for over 35 years and have concluded that the current WITP has some sever flaws, some of which can be mitigated, some not. Let me know how I can be of assistence......

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

I have some time to contribute. I have litterally spent hundreds of hours researching and designing OOB's and TOE's for The Operational Art of War. I have studied the Pacific War for over 35 years and have concluded that the current WITP has some sever flaws, some of which can be mitigated, some not. Let me know how I can be of assistence......

Whack! Sign here!!! Sounds great. What do you see as the biggest deficiencies?

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

I have some time to contribute. I have litterally spent hundreds of hours researching and designing OOB's and TOE's for The Operational Art of War. I have studied the Pacific War for over 35 years and have concluded that the current WITP has some sever flaws, some of which can be mitigated, some not. Let me know how I can be of assistence......

Whack! Sign here!!! Sounds great. What do you see as the biggest deficiencies?

Some broad catagories that could be addressed by scnario mods are:

Ship endurance - way too high, need to use operational as opposed to "designed" max endurance. Indeed very few, if any, waship designed ever met its designed endurance. This would have the effect of forcing frequent refuelings, especially for destroyers which were notorious for having short sea 'legs'. Now if the cruising speed of carriers taskforces were truely fast, then they whould be at least 20kt's, at least for the USN.

Availability - Insure that all ships in service up to the end date are available. All none-West Coast built ships should arrive in San Diego, not San Francisco. San Diego was the primary naval training area for the Navy, and almost all ships assigned to the Pacific Fleet stopped here before transiting to Peral Harbor and points beyond.

Ship Upgrades - Some additional ones are needed for Japanese, especially ML's. Almost all of the Japanese ML's were specifically constructed so that they could be converted to ASW ships, and indeed most of the surviving ones were.

Tone down some moe the ASW capabilities of US Fleet Destroyers. Friedman acknowledges that ASW warfare was low on the list for fleet destroyers. He also states that a lack of a ranging sonar till late in the war severely limited the effectiveness of Fleet ASW. Indeed, one had to be somewhat lucky to find a sub in deep water.

The US West Coast ports need dedicated Base Units such like the Japanese and Commonwealth base units.

Some minor must haves -
F7F Tigercat - These should be available to Marine Corp Squadrons in early 1945.
Catalina's should have the range to transit from the West Coast to Hawaii

Some possible questions that I do not have asnswers for on hand:

Did the Marine Corp operationally organize their squadrons into Air Wings? If so this is a way to cut down on the sheer numbers of air units in the late war.

The above are just some of the problems that need to be addressed. I need to look at it some more to come up with others.


Richard Martin

[CobraAus]

Count me in anything I can do to HELP lot of time on my hands - at present slowly working my way through Andrews Map and teaching myself some new art techniques

Cobra Aus

[Lemurs!]

I had just added the T-1 APD's to my mod along with the reworked Ki45's.

Ship endurance/range/cruise speed i have worked on extensively. In my mod many ships have been lowered and a few increased.
I am a bit nervous about changing cruise speeds because Matrix as much as said without the cruise speeds as they are the AI will puke up a micro chip.
But, if we are making a scn. for Pbem, then who cares.

I have the figures to rework the American ships into 18 or 20kt TF's. Interested?

Back to Carnivale, the best show on. The only show on as i hate TV.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

(snipped)
Some possible questions that I do not have asnswers for on hand:

Did the Marine Corp operationally organize their squadrons into Air Wings? If so this is a way to cut down on the sheer numbers of air units in the late war.
Richard Martin

Not really. Marine Corps "Wings" performed approximately the same function as the USAAC "Air Force". Also, USMC Air Groups were composite - usually a couple of fighter squadrons and a couple of attack (dive bomber then torpedo bomber). No real way to reduce the number of Marine Squadrons.

Don

[Alikchi2]

When you guys get finished, I'd like to use your scenario as a "base" for an alternate history scenario I'm working on, if that'd be alright with you. It sounds awesome. [:)]

[TheElf]

Unless someone else has ponied up, I'd like to contribute any planetop art that needs to be added for new A/C. It's about the only thing I am good at right now.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Unless someone else has ponied up, I'd like to contribute any planetop art that needs to be added for new A/C. It's about the only thing I am good at right now.

This is great, all this help.

[TheElf]

Which slots are US carrier capable slots?

[TheElf]

F8F

[Platoonist]

I did try modding the F8F Bearcat once. Results were kinda mixed.

[TheElf]

Very nice work Platoonist.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

I did try modding the F8F Bearcat once. Results were kinda mixed.

Yep, it's on file, along with a few others.

[Andrew Brown]

Count me in as well. Sounds great!

I know very little about OOB stuff, but I will do what little I can.

For anyone wondering, the mention of my map mod does not mean that you will have to use my map mod to use such a combined scenario. That way it would be developed is:

1) Develop the scenario as "normal".
2) I modify it to use my map mod (I use a script so it is not hard).

So it would be available for both the official map and my modded map. Of course the extra bases (and their corresponding LCUs) would only be present in the scenario converted for use with my mod.

A chat sounds like a very good idea. Of course you guys are all in other time zones, so no doubt it will be 3am my time...

Andrew

[michaelm75au]

At last count, carrier capable aircraft are in slots 76-102 and 244-249 for Allies and 1-25 for Japanese.
Michael

[Don Bowen]

Here's some thoughts on Allied carrier aircraft.

US Designation = British Designation

F4F-3 = Martlet I/III
Martlets form original French (I) and Greek (III) orders taken over by Britain – none served in Pacific

F4F-4 = Martlet II/IV
Martlet II served in Eastern Fleet from April, 1942. Martlet IV had a different engine and British Model MGs. Carried the U.S. designation F4F-4B but none served with US forces.

FM-1 = Wildcat V
Eastern Built F4F-4, MGs reduced to 4 and ammo increased. British standardized name to Wildcat about same time

FM-2 = Wildcat VI
Lighter version of F4F with better engine – heavily used on US and British escort carriers.

F6F-3 = Hellcat I
Initial version.

F6F-3N = ????
Night Fighter version

F6F-5 = Hellcat II
Slightly faster, lower wing loading.

F6F-5N = ????
Night Fighter version

F4U-1 = Corsair I/II
Corsair I = F4U-1, Corsair II = F4U-1A (I think??)

F4U-1D = Corsair IV
Corsair III similar from alternate U.S. manufactures (F3A, FG)

Notes:
Aircraft in base OOB (Scenario 15) indicated in bold.
Corsair IV is in the OOB but with stats that seem to equate to F4U-1, not F4U-1D
British Carrier Group usage in the Pacific appears about equal for Wildcat V/VI, Hellcat I/II, Corsair II/IV with many groups listing only base type (i.e. Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair)

We should reserve two of the new spots for F8F and F8FN, putting them in the upgrade path behind F6F/F6FN

I think we need the Martlet for early 1942 deployment – could be named Martlet II or just Martlet. If the FM-1 variant is not worth including for U.S. the equivalent Wildcat V certainly isn’t for British and we can replace it with the Wildcat VI (both V and VI heavily used on British CVE in 1945).

Leaving out the F6F-3/Hellcat I is OK but we might consider renaming Hellcat II to just Hellcat.

Not so sure about Corsairs. If F4U-1/F4U-1D are divided for U.S., maybe should be for U.K. If added, should be Corsair II based on Eastern Fleet deployments. No need to consider alternate manufacturer designations.

Sea Hurricane: not sure what version we should use:
Sea Hurricane I: http://users.belgacom.net/aircraft1/avi ... .html#2822
Sea Hurricane II: http://users.belgacom.net/aircraft1/avi ... .html#1557
Main use in Eastern Fleet was by Indomitable, 880 Squadron, in 1942. These are listed as simply “Sea Hurricane” in 4/42 and 5/42 OOB, then “Sea Hurricane IB” in 8/42 (replaced by Seafire IIC as of 5/43).

Seafire: Both
Seafire IIC: http://users.belgacom.net/aircraft1/avi ... .html#1721
Seafire III: http://users.belgacom.net/aircraft1/avion1/40.html#1722
Used in Eastern Fleet. The version in the OOB appears to be a IIC, with availability of 6/42 (version III dates from 11/43). Should we switch to Seafire III??? Use both with upgrade??

Does anyone know if the British had a carrier-based night fighter???

Only other aircraft I've found that might be worth inclusion is the Barracuda II - a version of the Barracuda with radar. The TBF/Avenger I and TBM/Avenger II set is fine. The British made little use of U.S. Dive Bombers. Albacore would be a bit of a stretch.

On the other side, the Sea Gladiator can be removed and (in needed) the SB2U could be moved to a non-carrier slot.

[Blackhorse]

I enthusiastically endorse the idea of the finest modders joining forces to revamp the campaign game. A nice present for the New Year.

I'm willing to throw in my 2 cents, mostly on land OOBs.

Andrew Brown already has my rework of the US at start forces in Alaska.

I also have a list of the US forces slated to be transferred from Europe to the Pacific to participate in the two planned invasions of Japan.

For the Japanese, I have a brigade-level OOB (four units) for the India National Army (INA), complete with historical leaders.

Let me know who, if anyone [:)], wants them. Should I just post them here?

Finally, if anyone is willing/able to play with the weather, I have a fairly good list of the actual monsoon / heavy rain seasons for different countries and island groups. Also, the NE weather zone should be overcast or worse 2/3rds of the time . . .

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

I enthusiastically endorse the idea of the finest modders joining forces to revamp the campaign game. A nice present for the New Year.

I'm willing to throw in my 2 cents, mostly on land OOBs.

Andrew Brown already has my rework of the US at start forces in Alaska.

I also have a list of the US forces slated to be transferred from Europe to the Pacific to participate in the two planned invasions of Japan.

For the Japanese, I have a brigade-level OOB (four units) for the India National Army (INA), complete with historical leaders.

Let me know who, if anyone [:)], wants them. Should I just post them here?

Finally, if anyone is willing/able to play with the weather, I have a fairly good list of the actual monsoon / heavy rain seasons for different countries and island groups. Also, the NE weather zone should be overcast or worse 2/3rds of the time . . .

Posting here is good but sending well labeled files to Don Bowen for the archive is also good practice. Thank You![:)]

[TheElf]

Don,
I'm not smart on the current limitations of the A/C slots in the WitP Database. Strictly speaking of artfiles here, there some things we need to know before prioritizing which aircraft we add:

For both the Jap and allies:
1. How many slots in the database are open?
2. Of those open slots how many are carrier capable?
3. Do the number of slots in the DB match the number of available planetop and planeside slots?
3a. Are there more DB openings than are possible to represent with Planetops or planesides?
4. When we know the above, Which A/C can use the same Artfile(ie. FM-2, F4F-4, F4F-3, Martlet etc.)
5. Where possible or deemed necessary which A/C do we really want to have their own unique art file.
6. Can we delete current Planetops that NEVER appear in the Game so as to make room for new aircraft(ex. delete the Catalina or Mavis Planetop in favor of the F8F, or Kikka)
7. If we do step #6, how does that affect the planeSIDE correlation to the original A/C that occupied that slot
8. All the above being said, can we expand the planetop/side files so that we don't HAVE to delete ANY A/C and thus avoid the problem altogether.

Any info/input would be appreciated.