PT Boat Tactics

[BrianS]

Forgive me if there is an obvious answer to this question - I'm a newbie.

What is the proper way to utizilize PT boats? I'm playing the Guadalcanal campaign (against the AI) and I have some PTs based at Tulagi. I've basically got them sitting there undocked with a React Range of 2 and Do Not Retire orders. So far they've just sat there. I was hoping they'd react to Japanese forces coming down the Slot, but they don't seem to. I captured Russell with a very small force for the sole purpose of basing some PTs there to hopefully intercept IJN forces heading for Tass or Guadal, but a large IJN surface fleet rolled in to bombard Russell and sank all but one of them. I'm not expecting them to stop IJN task forces in their tracks or even inflict any significant damage, but I would like them to at least attack.

My limited understanding of their use in surface actions during the war was to lie in wait near the coast before darting out to make torpedo attacks on Japanese ships as they came through, but I can't seem to imitate this tactic. I realize they had a lot of other uses as well during the actual war (picking up survivors, etc.), but I'm just not sure how to utilize them in the game.

So...

Am I using the right tactics and task force settings?
Am I expecting too much? (I realize they won't be very effective - just want them to try!)
How many PTs should be in a TF?
Are there some other uses for these little guys that I'm missing?

Any tips would be helpful.

Thanks,

BrianS

[munited18]

Well Brian,
I am no expert, but I do have some weird affection for these little guys. DOn't get me started on the whole "reaction range" thing. I wish someone could just explain how that works, because it sure doesn't ever seem too! Anyway, back to the topic. I have had most succes with the PT's by running them into enemy held ports and shooting up the place! The Solomons is a great place for this as well as a few others. I also have success by putting them in my forward bases, or contested bases, and let them chew up reinforcment/supply TFs. They may get hammered by enemy surface forces, but the damage they do to enemy merchant shipping, is well worth the cost. If used properly, in certain areas of the map, they are worth their weight in gold. I am currently playing the May '42 until the endo of the war scenario, and am trying to use the PT's once I take Tarawa in a month or so.
The major drawbacks to Pt's is their lack of fuel. However, it is my opnion, that this is offset by their ability to avoid enemy air attacks. Even if they are out of fuel in enemy territory, they still have a chance to make it back home, eventually. Try that with a force of crusisers and destroyers![:D]
Anyway, that is my two cents and good luck!
Travis

[madflava13]

Ships with a react range will only react to attack TFs that are coming to the base they're sitting at. So your PTs at Tulagi will only react to attack TFs coming to Tulagi. The "2" means they will react out to 2 hexes to get any such TFs. To protect Guadalcanal, you'd have to base some PTs there. I agree it's a little screwy - I'd like to see them react to anything that is detected and within range, but...

Anyways, basing them at your various bases in the Solomons is a good idea as it will discourage bombardment attacks and invasions. I've had varing success with PTs in WiTP. If the enemy TF is well defended, it's not uncommon for me to lose all the PTs for no damage to the bad guys. Other times though I've managed some torp hits on Japanese ships, even capital ships. Those are the times that keep me trying!

Just remember that without enough supply (20,000 I think) and a certain port size, your PT boats will not rearm torpedos. You need a PT tender to do so without the port being big enough, but i don't know if any are available in that scenario...

As for how many, well I usually put 5-10 in a TF. No real reason, that just "seems right" to me. Hope that helps!

[2ndACR]

Actually, any surface combat TF with a react of say 6 will react to any enemy TF that attacks one of your bases within that circle. The closer your TF is to the attacked base, the higher the chance that they will react.

[DrewMatrix]

I vaguely recall this but have never had much success with it, mostly because reaction seems to be a rare event:

You can set the PT or Surface Combat TF to some reaction range, then order them to go to a nearby base (one they can reach in 12 hours of night) and return that same turn during the day.

This apparently gets them in multiple battles: at the destination hex during the night, then they return to their home port, THEN they react and go out again (during the day turn) for a second whack at the bad guys.

In practice I have never seen this happen though. In practice I see lots of air vs ship combat but very little ship vs ship combat.

[dtravel]

I figure PT Boats are a "point defense" unit. Since their round-trip range is only 3 or 4 hexes I don't see them as being useful in a reaction force. So if I have a base that I think the enemy is going to bombard or invade, build some PTs there. They'll probably get chopped to s***, but they are only worth a point each to the other side and they just might torpedo something valuable. Don't know if having more than six at any one base is good or bad yet.

[Tom Hunter]

My games are both PBEM early Jan 1942

My PTs have had some good luck in one game sunk and AVD and a Tanker and repulsed and unescorted invasion of Tarakan. That opponent now escorts everything.

In the second game my opponent has sent large DD groups after my PT forces so they have not accomplished that much.

I raid with them when I can. Base them at a port near a place where enemy TFs want to go and then drive on in. At the very least this forces my opponents to send more escorts to more places and this narrows the overall scope of his offensive.

[munited18]

Tom,
This is why I think that pound for pound, these little guys are perhaps the best thing going. When you let them loose, under the proper circumstances, they can shred invasion/supply TFs. And as you said, if those little 1 supply cost boats make the enemy diviert some of his strength to mundane escort then I believe that it is a success too! Same way I feel about subs as well.[&o]

[BrianS]

Thanks for all the tips! I've got a much better feel for how these things should work now. The 'point defense' concept seems to most accurately reflect my understanding of their historical use. Even if they aren't reacting to enemy forces 1 or 2 hexes away, they are essentially reacting to enemy forces that enter their hex. I have to keep reminding myself that these hexes are 60 miles across. Some of the other tactics are interesting as well. I wouldn't have thought about sending these fellas into enemy locations on raids, but it sounds like it could be effective. I also forgot about the requirements to rearm (supply level and port size requirements). If my boats at Tulagi had ever gotten into the action and survived, I would have found out the hard way that their torpedoes weren't going to be replenished.

Thanks again to all who posted. I'll keep watching the thread - I'm sure there are more good ideas out there.

BrianS

[tsimmonds]

An SCTF set to react may possibly react to an enemy TF antering any friendly base hex within its react range.

[rtrapasso]

I've had very good results with PTs - but only in limited circumstances. I've heard about PTs torpedoeing CVs on the high seas, but i think those are very rare cases.

The best (and fairly consistent) way i've been able to use them is to attack enemy landing tfs when they come into a port that i still have troops at. Generally, if they (IJN)are landing troops but have not assaulted - bring in PTs from another hex, and they will often achieve surprise and attack at close range, and escape losing no boats (or maybe one). However, if there are Japanese troops ashore, the IJN can counterattack. SOmehow the troops ashore notify the attackers (be they PT or IJN) (i guess by radio) and this gives a surprise advantage to ships coming in.

Another way to maul an attacker is if there are large numbers of PTs disbanded in a port - they automatically form 6 boat TFs and start coming out when the enemy shows up at the port- and if you have enough, they will run the attackers out of ammo, and you can end up sinking a force of cruisers and dds in serial attacks.

[Q-Ball]

They're also good for "Barge Busting", if the Japs are sending AG's to resupply a forward garrison. If you send them on Surface Combat to a base being re-supplied they will attack any barges in the hex (or DD's or anything else for that matter).

[Feinder]

FYI, I think the supply requirement for PTs to rearm was downgraded to 3000 supplies and a Port(3). Makes a big difference.

They're fairly useful in DEI also, because of the short hops between bases, they can refuel (but often not rearm). I actually use them agressively in Dec/Jan/Feb, when IJA is moving in DEI. You can "sneak up" on a greedy amphibious force (unescorted), and have your way with the transports.

This tends you p1ss off your opponent, so the DDs come hunting for you. But a 3 - 4 PTs for transport, or better a lucky hit on one of the hunting DDs, is worth it.

-F-

[mogami]

Hi, I try to avoid contact with enemy TF containing warships (DD and larger).
At start of war I track enemy landings and if I see where TF of transports/MSE/PC/PG are being used I try to place PT in their path (from 3 to 6 PT boats)
After a battle they have to move to a suitable sized port to reload torpedos.

Even though some players consider it a victory if 12 PT's are sunk but score a torpedo hit on a CA or BB I don't send mine into such fights knowingly.
I use them to protect bases from unescorted enemy transport TF. Also since you know where surface battles between major units will occur (because they only occur where you place major ships) You can stage a few in close by bases and after the battle use them to chase damaged enemy ships.

[Halsey]

They are also good for reconing bases you might want to bombard. Better to lose a couple of PT's than a capital ship. Of course you still have to be in range to get there. If there are any mines there they will probably find them.

[BraveHome]

ORIGINAL: munited18

The major drawbacks to Pt's is their lack of fuel. However, it is my opnion, that this is offset by their ability to avoid enemy air attacks.

While they do tend to avoid bomber types (even those set to 100 ft), I'm having great fun as the Japanese making Swiss Cheese out of PT boats with my Zeros. Just send 'em in at 100 feet and enjoy the show [;)]

[munited18]

[:-]
As with so many things in this game, there things you can get away with vs. the AI that you will, how did it go? Ah yes, that a human opponent will turn into "swiss cheese"[:D]

Tactics must always be motified for the opponent, damn zeros...

[Hornblower]

In UV I used them to try as anti-barge busters, or as pointed out earlier- point defence. success rate at both i'd say was 50% gave as good as they got. some really good results, and some horrible. As of yet (early'42) i haven't had any possitive success with the PT's in PI or the Dutch. I would tend to attribute it to there exp and leadership.

[BraveHome]

Too true! I played a few turns against the AI when I first bought the game and was frustrated by its lack of challenge. So I jumped into a fullblown Scen 15 against an experienced opponent (under 1.3) and had my clock handed to me. We agreed to restart under 1.4 (he wanted the new OOB) and so far I'm holding my own (kinda easy if you're a half-competent Japanese in the early going -- which says how competent I was my first PBEM game [8|]).

But I'm a firm believer in studying my opponents' successes to learn his weaknesses (kind of like Alekhine against Capablanca leading up to the 1927 World Chess Championship), so the better my opponent does the 1st time I play them, the happier I am [;)].

[Roger Neilson]

Has anyone else hit a problem that is occurring in one of my PBEM games? This has happened twice on two separate turns and each time has been an encounter betweena lone CL raider (me) and a TF of PT boats (3 once, 7 the other time). Both times I have 'surprised' the US TF and both times it has persistently crashed to desk top. We only retrieved the fisrst problem when I was able to go into my opponenets turn (he supplied his password) and send the PTs away from where my CL was going so we avoided the combat. One turn later the problem resurfaces with a different CL and PT TF....

I have already reported the earlier problem via the support forum, but thought it might be useful to add it to this discussion also.

Roger