Review of HoI2 over at wargamers

[elmo3]

HOI2 1.1 is out already. Looks like quite a list of fixes and enhancements.

Edit - Since some of the discussion here has focused on the AI, following are the 1.1 changes:

*******************************
******* AI Improvements *******
*******************************

- Worked alot on the front AI to teach it to evaluate attack and defend odds better, also improved its
- Improved the AI's evaluation of when to break off attacks.
- Improved the AI's understanding of establishing reserves.
- AI now tries to group motorized infantry with mechs and armor if possible.
- The AI now synchronizes attacks smarter.
- Now the front AI reacts quicker to the players and other nations actions.
- Air AI taskforce composition has been improved.
- Air AI is now better att evaluating when to evacuate bases.
- Wolfpack AI now spreads out attacks more.
- Convoy AI now adapts better to hostilities, and also attempts to bring home stockpiles more efficiently.
- Improved the cooperation between AIR and Naval AI.
- The AI is now a lot smarter about using its serial runs.
- Improved the AI for researching technologies.
- Pathfing AI is now much smarter and tries to avoid danger if possible.
- The AI for accpeting nations asking to join their alliance was rewritten.
- Diplomatic AI now cancels non-agression pacts in attempts to honor guarantees, and is also more likely to honor guarantees they have given.
- Loads and loads more of AI code and scripts written for various cases of when circumstances change.

[SemperAugustus]

Perhaps this adds another 20% to the AI ability so Ravenhood goes and buys the game

[Hanal]

Thanks for the patch info...this confirms my original thought, that though I have been swayed and will buy HOI2, despite not liking HOI, I will hold off awhile until some of the gameplay issues are ironed out......by the way, can you play HOI2 without having the CD in the drive?...that was one feature I liked about HOI.....

[CatLord]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

HOI2 1.1 is out already. Looks like quite a list of fixes and enhancements.

The 1.1 pack is here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... p?t=180604

More tweaks and enhancements than fix IMHO, but I won't argue here about what is a fix and what is an enhancement, because I can see it will just divide people amongst their defensive lines again. [:D]

The thing I can say though, is that it's damn quick for a first patch, even so as apparently it was not driven by a lot of CTD (in fact, there is no CTD fix if I read the release note correctly). [;)]

Anyway, I know it won't change your opinion by now.

Those who want to wait, wait ! Those who want to play, enjoy ! [:'(]

Cheers,

Cat

PS: If there are any French speakers interested, I am currently involved in an UV AAR over there in the Paradox French OT Forum... [;)]

[McNaughton]

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Releasing a new game without doing any graphical upgrading easily gives the feeling it is just a patched-up version of the same game. I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 partly because of this. C.O.R.E made HoI look soo much better, and I did expect some more of paradox. Alright, there are more important changes, but still.... Even the 'help'-codes are the same, even if the resource-system is new. I wonder if by design or accident...

JT

HAHAHAHA! Makes me laugh! Makes me think about UV and WitP! What is WitP but a rehash of PacWar and an expansion of UV based on YOUR logic!

Think before you post! HoI2 is vastly different than HoI1, and graphics don't mean spit for a wargame. It is just eye candy to hide a complicated spreadsheet for most wargames. It just means time was spent on gameplay and historic flow than sprites and graphics. I didn't buy UV, but I bought WitP. I also have HoI and HoI2.

[SeaMonkey]

EEEEEEHHhhh!!! Enough already. Is this a relevant discussion of substance or people imposing their will of opinion? Games are the reflection of an idea of simulation, using that philosophy, they are all related. One an improved version/idea of another, a stimulant of evolution, why argue about it...get on with it...and play and give me something pertinent so I can decide to invest or not. Is it worth it? All I can say is "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", "Different strokes for different folks"_________________add your cliche here. I have played the demo numerous times...... it has been deleted, but the acknowledgement of a potentially enhancing experience, has not. Play my fellow humans....Play... enjoy the fruits of your labor and provide the feedback of some material....not fleeting philosophy, so that we humans of scrutinization may reach a conclusion.

[IainMcNeil]

I second that - I've had enough of this disucussion! Every board has an argument between the pro & anti Paradox games and it gets repetitive after a while! Lets use all that energy in a more positive way.

The only way to win is not to play. How about a nice game of chess

[Warfare1]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

How about a nice game of chess

Is that you, Hal? [:D]

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

...and play and give me something pertinent so I can decide to invest or not. Is it worth it? ...

Someone asked this at Paradox and the answers, as of last night, were all positive. The general feeling seems to be that it is the least buggy of all Paradox 1.0 releases. A few CTD's reported and the usual disagreements on some design decisions but I haven't seen reports of anything like the problems we all had with HOI out of the box. There are a couple of threads in the computer gaming forum at The Wargamer with some comments. People at Octopus Overlords are also happy with it for the most part. Surprisingly there hasn't been much at Usenet in the war-historical group yet, but there is a short commentary in the strategic group by Henri A.

[Error in 0]

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Releasing a new game without doing any graphical upgrading easily gives the feeling it is just a patched-up version of the same game. I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 partly because of this. C.O.R.E made HoI look soo much better, and I did expect some more of paradox. Alright, there are more important changes, but still.... Even the 'help'-codes are the same, even if the resource-system is new. I wonder if by design or accident...

JT

HAHAHAHA! Makes me laugh! Makes me think about UV and WitP! What is WitP but a rehash of PacWar and an expansion of UV based on YOUR logic!

Think before you post! HoI2 is vastly different than HoI1, and graphics don't mean spit for a wargame. It is just eye candy to hide a complicated spreadsheet for most wargames. It just means time was spent on gameplay and historic flow than sprites and graphics. I didn't buy UV, but I bought WitP. I also have HoI and HoI2.

Laugh all you want, but bashing me is immature at best. If you buy a new game with old graphic, does this not lend hand to the feeling this is not a new game? I certainly believe so, and if you ask the marked out there, Im sure they feel this too. I also point out there is many changes to the game that is more important than a change of the graphics would be, but you obviously did not read that. If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

Thank you very much for your valuable input.

JT

[ravinhood]

Is this a relevant discussion of substance or people imposing their will of opinion?

It's both of course. Just some only want to hear the "sugar coated" portions of the subject and others want to hear the "negative related facts" of the subject. That's why this is called a "general discussion" forum. So both crowds may speak. Do we not get the same praises to their games every single thread, on every single forum? Must have an equilibrium of the subject matter or it gets one sided and untruthful.

Personally I would never tell anyone "enough already", it's like saying their input is unwarranted and of course "opinionated" by the person stating it. No one here is the leader of the pack so to speak, so it's everyones right to speakup, speakout and declare how they feel about the subject, even if they are wrong and I am right. lol

[ancient doctor]

I am not going to start spitting Paradox for what they do(or dont actually[:@])and are(again)since it is well known by anybody having played strategy games about the subject on what these people do and how[>:].

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.If and i say IF they had made an attemp to fix the still exisiting HOI1 heavy problems then i whould thought that they respect me and my money and thus i might have made an attempt to buy from them again.However nothing like that have happened.I will simply say that HoI1 still have some problems it had from day 1.

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about[:-].

[max_h]

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

I am not going to start spitting Paradox for what they do(or dont actually[:@])and are(again)since it is well known by anybody having played strategy games about the subject on what these people do and how[>:].

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.If and i say IF they had made an attemp to fix the still exisiting HOI1 heavy problems then i whould thought that they respect me and my money and thus i might have made an attempt to buy from them again.However nothing like that have happened.I will simply say that HoI1 still have some problems it had from day 1.

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about[:-].

check out WitP. HoI2 as of 1.0 is in a better state.

HTTR otoh

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
How about a nice game of chess

So do you prefer Chessmaster or are you a hardcore Fritz 8 person

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.

Your post tells me two things. 1) You have not played HoI2, and 2) English is not your first language.

[ravinhood]

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about

Good for you Ancient seaman, I applaud your decision. We need more like you to make changes in the way games are published these days. Pass the word around and keep the army growing.

[ASHBERY76]

Yeah good for seaman, i just played HOI2 for 10 hours non-stop.I'm very happy with it,[:D] so it's your loss.

[SemperAugustus]

If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

More and better sprites would be nice I agree

[McNaughton]

JallaTryne

Laugh all you want, but bashing me is immature at best. If you buy a new game with old graphic, does this not lend hand to the feeling this is not a new game? I certainly believe so, and if you ask the marked out there, Im sure they feel this too. I also point out there is many changes to the game that is more important than a change of the graphics would be, but you obviously did not read that. If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

Thank you very much for your valuable input.

JT

Sorry, but I just attributed all of the complaints you had about Paradox games upon Matrix games themselves. I personally don't see this as a problem, or a situation, but, if you are going to nail Paradox for this 'problem', you should nail Matrix games for exactly the same thing. As far as I know graphics weren't improved from UV to WitP. Does it look like a new game? No, (internally it is), but what's wrong about that? Games are constantly full of expansions, and second versions (doom 1 and doom 2 weren't significantly different, eh?). Virtually every segment of the game has been rehashed and redone to the point where very little is similar to the original. Versions are released with significant improvements on the original.

I think that you should not bash Paradox games for doing this, since the games are drastically different on the inside, while they do look similar on the outside. WitP looks exactly like UV (based upon PacWar, a really old game), but they are vastly different games.

The market doesn't think this is a bad move, look at the reviews and sales are good. There are very few complaints by game owners on the forums either. You don't even have the game, and you pass judgement? That is completely unfair.

[pasternakski]

Thank you. This is so new and revolutionary we should call it "M'Naghten's Rule."