Star Wars Mod Update

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Melkor
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Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Melkor »

Bit of an update:

Added Victory SD, Strike Cruiser, MC-90 Mon Cal, Corellian Corvette, and Bulk Freighter. Also cleaned up some graphical things. The links are in my sig, one for the compressed (dat) version, and one for the open version. (I was a little hesitant to release the open one just because my def files are extremely messy, especially compared to Damocles' ships...) Sorry there isn't more in this version, but I've been spending too much time tinkering with campaigns ;).
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DamoclesX
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by DamoclesX »

awsome

ill mirror them on ssc as soon as possible
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Diabolico
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Diabolico »

It is done![:D]
Both files are already available from SSC.
Kuokkanen
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Kuokkanen »

I just took brief look to mod. TIE Fighter moves over 500 meters/second in arcade mode, but in games of Totally Games (X-Wing, TIE Fighter) it is just 100 m/s. I took look to T/F's model and DEF file. If my calculations are right, it is 28 meters long. It also turns lazily. ISD don't have visible turrets and shield generator is in wrong place. Those are few things that hit my eye [:'(]

[edit]
Also ISD is named wrong. In mod it is Imperator-class Star Destroyer when it should be Imperial-class Star Destroyer.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Melkor
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Melkor »

Matti, regarding your observations:

First off, the mod is actually meant to be played in Realistic mode. I only messed with Arcade mode very early on, and it didn't work well. Secondly, the size and speed issues are related. The stock ships are roughly 4 times their "real life" size in the game in order to make them more clearly visible. I also followed this procedure, hence the 28m TIE instead of 6m and change. Because the sizes are increased, the speeds needed to be increased in order to maintain the same speed relative to the object's size. Otherwise all the fighters would look like they were moving like pregnant elephants. Also, Totally Games isn't the only reference point for these ships, and even if they were, those game speeds are given in MegaLights per second, not Meters per second (they're not necessarily the same). I have received other opinions on the fighters' performance also indicating they're a bit sluggish, so I'll work on that :). As per visible turrets, I'll work on those once I get a more complete ship set. They will make an appearance, though! Finally, concerning the ISD's shield generators, I mentioned in another thread a while back that I consider large, exposed, attention-attracting, poorly-armored, radar-dome-looking things to be sensors, not shield generators :). Thanks for your feedback!
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Pheonix Starflare
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Pheonix Starflare »

ORIGINAL: Melkor
Finally, concerning the ISD's shield generators, I mentioned in another thread a while back that I consider large, exposed, attention-attracting, poorly-armored, radar-dome-looking things to be sensors, not shield generators :). Thanks for your feedback!

^Yea, that! read this!
"An optimist sees a glass half full, a pessimist sees a glass half empty and an engineer sees a glass thats twice as big as it has to be."

"What do you get when you cross a chicken and and elephant? Chicken elephant sine(theta)"
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Pheonix Starflare
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Pheonix Starflare »

Regarding the mod...very nice!
1 Question tho, is the MC90's lights supposed to be that bright/numerous?

Has anyone made some nice missions using this excellent mod? If so post them, please!
"An optimist sees a glass half full, a pessimist sees a glass half empty and an engineer sees a glass thats twice as big as it has to be."

"What do you get when you cross a chicken and and elephant? Chicken elephant sine(theta)"
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Diabolico
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Diabolico »

Yeeah, the mod rocks!
I have made missions for the previous Melkor SW Mod, wich was version 4. Hopefully all objects are named the same so it should work well with verson 5 (this current mod).
If you care to try it, the mission is available from SSC and it is precised in the mission's description that you nedd SW mod 4 to play it, as I can't remember how I've called it.
There maybe even 2 for mod 4 and hopefully they will work with mod 5.[8D]
One of thosemissions is the typical "Star Destroyer vs a small Rebel fleet". Try that one.. [:D]

=S=
Kuokkanen
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RE: Star Wars Mod Update

Post by Kuokkanen »

ORIGINAL: Melkor

Also, Totally Games isn't the only reference point for these ships, and even if they were, those game speeds are given in MegaLights per second, not Meters per second (they're not necessarily the same).
Actually they are. I played TIE Fighter CD, flyed past Space Platform with 100 units speed leaving it my behind. I watched my wristwatch, counted seconds and compared it to increasing distance. I made calculations and I found that speed is same thing as meters per second.
I have received other opinions on the fighters' performance also indicating they're a bit sluggish, so I'll work on that :).
Might I suggest to make T/F more maneuverable than X-W. X-W has shields, T/F has small size and maneuverability. Think about BattleTech's hovercrafts (J. Edgars, Savannah Master): fast but fragile.
Finally, concerning the ISD's shield generators, I mentioned in another thread a while back that I consider large, exposed, attention-attracting, poorly-armored, radar-dome-looking things to be sensors, not shield generators :).
Some time ago I saw WWW site where was described original plans for Star Wars what didn't made it to movies. In that site those domes were described as sensors and TIE Interceptor was described having ten (10) laser cannons.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Diabolico
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Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Diabolico »

The Mod is great and I will put it to test very soon.
Oh and regarding Arcade mod I have never played on that mod and probably never wil... [:'(].
I will write a review for your mod (I intended to write reviews for all mods and post them on SS).
Regarding what Matty said, for playability's sake, the real dimensions shouldn't be used at all. When I was flying your Mod 4, flyng an X-wing and chasing a Tie Fighter, for example, I was like 1 or 2 KM away from it and it was so tiny, compared to milo's ships where at that same distance, you have a very good view of your enemy.
In what concerns mod 4 my suggestions were :

1. Improve that scale, in order to have the same visibility/resolution as when flying a Milo fighter. I'd expect to fight the same way I did with stock SS (ships same size, etc.);

2. Fighters manoeuver a bit sluggush. I'd expect from an X-wing (or similar) the same manoeuver capabilities as the F-36, F-32 like behaviour for Tie Fighters and A-wing (or faster) and F-38 like behaviour for B and Y wings;

3. Some fighter weapons don't seem to do enough damage. Usually, 2 or 3 laser shots (at max should kill a Tie, no?). It seemed forever to kill one of those fragile but agile fighters.

I have already downloaded Mod 5 and will test it as soon as work and SSC management allows it.

As for seeing the turrets... LOL... that is not really what is important... Matty, can you imagine Melkor making dozens or hundreds of turbolaser/quad laser batteries? He'd be done by 2010![:D]
Offcourse I'd like to see them but in what concerns Capital ships, I am already satisfied with what happens on mod 4 except fr fighter behaviour, when returning to dock. Fighters often crash into the mother ship or near the hangar. But then, this also happens with stock SS... [:D]


=S= and keep it up Melkor!!![&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]
Kuokkanen
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Kuokkanen »

ORIGINAL: Diabolico

3. Some fighter weapons don't seem to do enough damage. Usually, 2 or 3 laser shots (at max should kill a Tie, no?). It seemed forever to kill one of those fragile but agile fighters.
Punch of shot is reduced over distance. So if weapon has range of 1000 and it does 100 damage, in range of 900 hit scores 1 damage. There is no parameter to change this.

What comes to relative size & speed, official sizes works just right with speeds seen in X-Wing series (includes X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance). Get my mod and see yourself (arcade mode recommended)
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~bigfoot/starshatter/mods.zip

[edit]
Only TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptor included. Sizes are taken from official Star Wars Databank
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Diabolico
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Diabolico »

Punch of shot is reduced over distance. So if weapon has range of 1000 and it does 100 damage, in range of 900 hit scores 1 damage. There is no parameter to change this.

Indeed, but there is a way to change this : make the weapon do more damage, so that when the fighter is "visible" (and by visible I mean not an almost invisible dot flying 1 km or 2 away, or less, but still as big as a dot), you can actually gun it, like what you see in space movies. There is generally a big image of your target in SW movies.
In my opinion, the only way to achieve this in SS is to make small objects like fighters, bigger than they really are (like that pic you posted here with one of your TIE fighter standing next to a Milo Viper fighter or so.
What good is to have exact size replicas if you can't do anything practical with them on SS?
Nevertheless I will try your mod (even uploaded to SSC, so it doesn't get lost over time) and I will let you know.
What comes to relative size & speed, official sizes works just right with speeds seen in X-Wing series (includes X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance). Get my mod and see yourself (arcade mode recommended) (...) Sizes are taken from official Star Wars Databank

Yeah all that is important but each game engine is different. In terms of development, I suggest that SS has little or nothing in common with those SW games. It is up to the modders to adapt sizes, damage, speed and whatever else is necessary to make them perform as we see on TV, all this on realistic model.
As nobody here has ever flown a TIE Fighter, a X-Wing, etc. and never will (you probably will if you believe in alternate universes and reincarnation [:D][&o][X(]...), the only reference other than speeds, weapons, etc. that we have regarding their performance is what we see on the movies.
So as SW is a "Space Opera" Sci-fi show, all craft present should represent this, and though somepeople won't like it, you should be able to take a death star on the same conditions of old movie Episode 1.
In my opinion, the best SW mod will reflect the marvel and wonder of the SW universe and Space Opera style, while giving the impression of a realistical, carefully-balanced ship.
In fact, this is the greatest wonder of SS!!![&o]

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Kuokkanen
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Kuokkanen »

ORIGINAL: Diabolico

the only reference other than speeds, weapons, etc. that we have regarding their performance is what we see on the movies.
...
In my opinion, the best SW mod will reflect the marvel and wonder of the SW universe and Space Opera style, while giving the impression of a realistical, carefully-balanced ship.
Only references for speeds I have are from Star Wars combat simulations made by Totally Games and they work just right. You have point about movies and I have made weapons work about like they do in movies (firing rate that is).
What good is to have exact size replicas if you can't do anything practical with them on SS?
Increasing size isn't only option. Alternatives are to make ships more fragile (less hitpoints), reduce speed, autoaim, increased speed for weapons, seeking capabilities for weapons etc.

What comes to my mod I linked here, it includes ONLY TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptor. Don't put it in SSC or anything similar, let me continue work with it. I already have X-Wing, Corvette and FRT (bulk freighter) and they all need more work to do (mostly DEFing). Ship models, textures and sound effects are from X-Wing Alliance game.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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DamoclesX
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by DamoclesX »

keep it up meklor

and dont make it like xwing vs tiefighter or that horrible mod

base it off the show and do it by feel.


ps, never ever bend to those show cannon freaks you will find on most scifi forums, they have nothing better to do and if you give them an opening they will never be happy, its the first rule I run by when modding.
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AncientAngel
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by AncientAngel »

ORIGINAL: DamoclesX
never ever bend to those show cannon freaks you will find on most scifi forums, they have nothing better to do and if you give them an opening they will never be happy, its the first rule I run by when modding.

Amen to that statement right there. Do not get caught up in all of the if's and but's and just keep plugging along otherwise all you will be dealing with are them and not the project its self. Trust me me on this one, I got tied up on a Star Trek related issue verse in game mod limitations for over three months with one guy off and on for a few days each week. Everyone else understood the issue but not him and it did not matter how many times I could explain it it just was not right in his point of view. And every time I added more content he would rear his head and point out the same issue over and over again. Anyways I got even and yanked all of his modeling work out of the project by the time everything was said and done. I have a very low tolerance to the ammount of BS I will take. I rather do everything myself instead of dealing with someone that is going to whine about everything little detail before the majority of it is even in place.
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DamoclesX
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by DamoclesX »

No kidding.

Some people REALLY are pathetic enough that they will get all pissed and mad and post link after link to bs after bs site that itself is backed up by link after link to explain some BS thing they saw ont he show after taking a screencap, magnifing it 100x making about 10,000 "assumptions" but always comming out with solid swear by facts.

To bad most of these people never ever will understood that things are done in shows to look cool, period.

AA has hit it right on the hammer why I work along on mod projects, people can contribute ships, but it ends there, I have a closed circle of people I ask for advice and thats it.
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Diabolico
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Diabolico »

Amen...[:D]
Melkor
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Melkor »

Heh, thanks guys! Really, I don't think any game that was 100% realistic would be any fun. I mean, who wants to sit around for a few hours while you're waiting for your fighter to be repaired and rearmed, or wait in line at the Head? I've tried to balance "reality" (considering all this stuff is made up anyway) with enjoyability, which I think is the goal of any gamer (at least the non-psycho ones). If I want complete accuracy, I'll go read a Science or History book. If I want fun, I'll play a game. Regarding the Star Wars mod, if someone offers a suggestion that I feel will improve gameplay (ie, fighter maneuverability or ship balancing), then I'll do my best to implement it. If it works, great; if not, too bad. Other than that, I'm really not going to get all caught up in nit-picking nonsense that has no bearing on how much fun someone has using the mod. With that said, I think Phoenix may be right about the lights on the MC90...[;)]
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RE: Don't be so harsh on yourself Melkor!

Post by Mr. D »

Melkor, I think you are absolutely on the right track!
Make it the way it makes fun and sense (well at least a bit)
regarding those stupid "generators": I could not agree any more on that, I have been reading all that stuff about it being shield generators over and over again book after book and I must say: I DON'T CARE! it simply makes no sense especially since the ISD and the SSD have got the same globes on the same tower.
My only contribution to this is look here:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

This page is one of those where they keep checking every stupid detail, but they keep all their senses together while they do it (PLEASE look at the SSD matter!)
Besides there are a LOT of ships and fighters not seen in the movies or the games on this site...perhaps they will make theit way into your MOD.
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