Grounded Carrier Planes Changing Headquarters

[ADavidB]

I remember a while back some threads concerning grounded carrier planes (planes that have abandoned a damaged carrier) changing controling headquarters. I've just had that happen to me in my scenario 15, v1.40 historic start game against Tophat. The Enterprise got shot up while jumping Tophat's CVLs and CVEs and the planes left the carrier and landed at various bases nearby. The planes that landed at an ABDA base became attached to ABDA and the planes that landed in USAFFE became attached to USAFFE.

Is this supposed to happen, and will they revert to USN control without me using political points to change them back?

BTW - I do have the turn if anyone wants to see it.

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[Dutchgy2000]

Well all i can say to that is when i lost Soryu in the Bay of Bengal (i know... i know... what was i doing there anyway [&:] ) the few planes that did manage to get to Rangoon were all home defence force (same as they were onboard, never changed) so having to pay some points to get them back works both ways.

[ZonkerHarris]

Shoulda happened to the Lexington, too, if only my Kate pilots had kept out of the sake stores before missions.

PS, do I owe you a turn, or do you owe me one?

[ADavidB]

I thought that I sent March 7 to you, but I can't find my send copy. I'll try to open it - if I can't, it means that I finished the turn and I'll resend it.

[Tom Hunter]

I just had the same thing happen a few planes flew off a carrier as it was torpedoed and turned to Australia command. They happened to fly to a good port and when the CV got there an off loaded the parent unit they turned back to Independent.

Can't say more because

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I just had the same thing happen a few planes flew off a carrier as it was torpedoed and turned to Australia command. They happened to fly to a good port and when the CV got there an off loaded the parent unit they turned back to Independent.

Can't say more because

Okay, you've helped me remember - someone else posted similar comments a while back. So it is a pain, but there is a workaround. All-in-all, that's a stupid bit of code to allow this to happen.

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[michaelm75au]

Once an "independent" air group from a carrier hits a base, it is no longer independent but assigned to the base's HQ.
I also think someone posted that once a carrier with "independent" AG docked/disbanded, its AGs attached to the local base HQ, but I have not paid that much attention to them.
I always try to keep the carriers away from restricted commands in case the AGs defect.
Michael

[mogami]

Hi, You can always load an airgroup onto a CV no matter what the HQ. The HQ only effects moving to other land bases.
Airgroups get their replacement aircraft from the HQ they are assigned to so when you unload a group (or it has to relocate because it's CV has lost flight ops) it adopts the closet HQ (the one the base belongs to)

Often on the CV remains the parent unit (the disabled aircraft and pilots that did not fly)
Don't try to fly the partial unit back to the CV.
You have to move the CV to where the orphans are or wait for the CV to regain flight ops and the rest of the group still on the CV to repair and then fly it to where the orphans are (they will combine) and then once all ac repaired fly back to the CV.

The only time you ever want to fly a group with some damaged AC of a CV is when the CV is going to sink. Or you will create a problem (Not as bad as in UV where it was a lot of trouble to correct)

[WhoCares]

When I (as Japan) lost five of my CVs near Lunga [:@], fractions of the groups landed at Lunga and were assigned to Homeland Defense. Problem is, some of the carriers sank before I could unload the lead section of the airgroups. For whatever reason, the remaining fractions did not become the main section, making it impossible to fully recreate the airgroups around them.
However, with reassigning of HQs and transfering to other bases I somehow managed to temporarily 'recreate' zero plane/pilot lead sections which I could disband. Unfortunatly it does not work for all airgroups...

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You can always load an airgroup onto a CV no matter what the HQ. The HQ only effects moving to other land bases.
Airgroups get their replacement aircraft from the HQ they are assigned to so when you unload a group (or it has to relocate because it's CV has lost flight ops) it adopts the closet HQ (the one the base belongs to)

Often on the CV remains the parent unit (the disabled aircraft and pilots that did not fly)
Don't try to fly the partial unit back to the CV.
You have to move the CV to where the orphans are or wait for the CV to regain flight ops and the rest of the group still on the CV to repair and then fly it to where the orphans are (they will combine) and then once all ac repaired fly back to the CV.

The only time you ever want to fly a group with some damaged AC of a CV is when the CV is going to sink. Or you will create a problem (Not as bad as in UV where it was a lot of trouble to correct)

Mog - have you ever asked the game designers why they made such a complicated rule for this? I can't see the rationale for it - why not leave the planes attached to their original HQ?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[mogami]

Hi, It has never given me a problem. Units that become fragmented by the loss or damage of their CV lose effectivness (They are hard coded to their CV. The CV is their HQ so when they are ashore you need to spend the PP to get them attached to where you want. Unless you pay the PP your only choice is to return them to their CV, or another CV
No matter what HQ they attach to they can transfer back to a CV.

[michaelm75au]

One reason could be that since the AGs are "independent", their carriers can get their replacement/upgrades from "any" of the Command Org HQ they are in range of.

Michael

[Dutchgy2000]

Ok, just to be clear. Seeing remarks above. The problem is not that all carrierplanes of Soryu, or any other Japanese carrier for that matter, are attached to home defence and when I lost it in the Bay of Bengal survivivng fragment landed all around the bases in the area. The problem is not even that seeing they are home defence (and don´t change as seems to be sudgested they do for the allies as soon as they touch down) if ya want to transfer and reorganize them to any other base because there are no other carriers available ya will need to change their command anyway. What I do find mildly irritating is that i am now stuck with perfectly good carrier trained fragments (BI-1 Datei/2, BI-2 Datai/1 and BI-3 Datai/1) all stuck on 9 planes each and their parent units gone down on the carrier... whatever the rules governing this behavious are... they never did change to become main unit.

And btw... no idea why BI-1 Datai is fragment /2 when there isn´t a parent nor a fragment /1 anywhere around.

[mogami]

Hi, Their parent is hard coded to a carrier that no longer exists.
All you can do with these units is use them as 9 plane Chutai or disband them into another group. (You can't disband CV groups while their CV is still around but fragments you can)
the /1 fragment never made it.

[Dutchgy2000]

Ah.. didn´t know they would stay fragments forever, thanks.

And yes, they are good for replacement or on a cvl if need be... that is.. if i ever get one in that area and fly them over.. but not as good a a full Datai... lol. Anyway, what i was trying to say to the original post was japanese also have to change their command to have them switch bases so it´s not that unreasonable that the same goes for the allies. And actually compared to the loss of a CV.. i can live with having to spend a few points for that.

[Oliver Heindorf]

I lost the Enterprise, I flew off the airgroups before it went to the bottom. Noe I have a replace Enterprise in the arriving ships list ( some +100 days ) but the replace Enterprise has no airgroups attached to it.

1. Do I need to take care of the original CV-6 Wings and need to place them on the new Enterprise ?

2. Or will be an new Wing created on it later ?

3. What would happen to the CV-6 Wings if they would have seen the fishes as the ship did - would they be a replacement like normal airgroups overran by enemy lcu's ?

thank you

[mogami]

Hi, If you had lost them they would come back with new CV (they are hard coded to it)
So you will have to keep them but if they are lost before the CV comes back they will return with it. (You can't lose on that deal)

[Oliver Heindorf]

thanks Mog ! [:)]

[WhoCares]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Their parent is hard coded to a carrier that no longer exists.
All you can do with these units is use them as 9 plane Chutai or disband them into another group. (You can't disband CV groups while their CV is still around but fragments you can)
the /1 fragment never made it.

As I mentioned above, I somehow managed to get access to the main section again. Had something to do with changing HQ and transfering the fragment to another base/CV. Once transfered I got a screen with the main section of the airgroup, but without planes (and pilots, iirc). I even was able to disband it and now I have some of those carrier Daitais(!) on the reinforcement schedule. [:)]
But I didn't manage to understand the full mechanism behind this and thus I still have some split Kate groups left...

[mogami]

Hi, Ah you came close. Once you got the parent on map you should have moved the fragments to where it was. They would have combined and then you would not have needed to disband the groups.