PBEM

[Gullet]

...meant waiting like hours for him to decide during setup phase whether his guy in the game will wear green or red space suit

[:D] Almost fell off the chair reading that!

Final comment: OK, we'll see what happens. I guess you could also add a "count-down clock" to restrict totally indecisive participants delaying games, although this can be devastating in strategic games, depending on complexity etc.

[CPTBrown]

This is the first I've heard of the VCR tool, great concept. I was thinking all along that each player would e-mail his file to every player for viewing every turn, but this seems a helluva lot more streamlined and user friendly. As for the LAN play, I could have seen myself use it back in college when I was stuck in the dorm (or barracks as was my case) studying and would have loved a distraction every 20-30 minutes. But now, there's no way that I have close to that amount of time to sit at the computer. A hotseat game with a timer and a case of beer sounds like a better time and a better night!

[Cheesehead]

Is anyone setting up a PBEM league for WaW? I would hope that there will be a list of players on a website (Preferably this one) who you can contact to get a game going.

[Scott_WAR]

There is solution to the "take an hour to decide whether to wear green or red" problem. Its called a turn timer. If normal, non obsessive players can do their turn in 10 minutes, then everyone has 10 minutes to do their turn. When your time is up it moves to the next players turn.


The point is ONLINE play is possible. You are going to see that since GGWAW isnt quite as intensive as many of matrix games, its going to have quite a few A&A type players. A lot of those players WILL NOT use PBEM with A&A, and probably wont like using PBEM with GGWAW. They will want a online feature.



With the use of a timer, and a few of the other ideas mentioned above (look at other games that do this for more ideas) online play without using PBEM, is not only viable, but to a lot of us I would say its prefered.


Edit- oops, saw it has been mentioned above already. I also see where that person thinks it could be devastating. In PBEM it can be. You have to re-familiarize yourself with the game every time you get a turn. This is where ALOT of the time in PBEM games is spent. In an online, LIVE , game, you see whats going on during your opponents turn, and should have a good idea what you want to do when your turn comes, meaning you should spend much less time thinking, and be able to make your turn in the time allowed EASILY.

[Gullet]

Finally! I am not alone... [:)]

Thought for a while that only PBEM hardcores where interested in the game. Let us just hope that 2by3 does include it in a not to distant patch.

/G

[Scott_WAR]

.I used to play Axis and Allies a lot online, and still talk with a lot of the people I played online with. As I mentioned above, many of them will not play using PBEM, and have stated that reason alone as why they probably wont buy GGWAW. They really only like playing against humans, and dont want to wait a day or two to get a turn. While it IS possible, in some games to have to wait up to 30 minutes for someone to finish a turn, that is still less time than will be spent waiting for an email, that may or may not be coming any time soon.


But yeah, if PBEM is the only way to play multplayer over the internet, there are quite a few that wont buy the game for that reason alone.



EDIT- Also, there is a varient of Axis and Allies that is played online called Blitz. It is a normal game of axis and allies with a 1 minute turn timer. Thats right, you have one minute to do your turn. Needsless to say you better know what you are planning to do before your turn starts, and you better be quick about doing it.

Just mentioning this to show that the timer, while being able to hurt your strategy, also adds an extra level of excitement. And in some ways adds realism. The leaders of the nations involved in world war 2 did not have forever to plan. They were under time constraints.

[Mr.Frag]

he must over-analyze every detail in games seven billion times: playing a simplest of FPS games vs. him over LAN meant waiting like hours for him to decide during setup phase whether his guy in the game will wear green or red space suit etc.

They invented FPS games to train people like that ... Move or DIE! [:D]

[ravinhood]

Well on the other flip of the coin, I would not play a timed game. That's what strategy games like this are about, "taking ones time". This is not an RTS clickfest game, though some would like to make it so it sounds like.

When I play a wargame I want to have that time "maybe 30 minutes, maybe less, maybe more", to look over the situation, think of "several" avenues of approach for attack or defence or entrapment.

It's the reason I look to Matrixgames and HPS games and Shrapnel games, because they are mostly turn based and unlimited time per turn.

So, if they make a multiplayer online feature for the game in a patch that is fine. But, it's certainly something I don't require or need to "buy" it. I look forward to many PBEM games with this one.

[Scott_WAR]

I understand completely, but I think you are overlooking a couple of important, things. The most important being the potential size of the community for this game. There are many, MANY Axis and Allies gamers that will probably like this game, IF they try it. A good portion of those are the people who play online now or have played online in the past. There was a time a few years ago that it was common to find 200+ people in the game lobby for axis and allies. Many of those people quit because of many different reasons, but every single one is a potential buyer of this game. The game needs to have all the tools necessary to draw them in, and for many that is online, non-PBEM play.

Now as to the timer itself, its meant to keep people from stalling, not from having enough time to do their turns. I cant say how much time is needed for a turn in this game, not being able to play it yet, but the idea is that if an average player needs 15 minutes to do their turn, you make the timer at least 20 minutes. That way they get all the time they need and some to spare, but they cant sit back and stall the game forever, ruining everyones experience.

However there would always be the option of no timer, if you are playing someone you know and/or trust. So that wouldnt be an issue either way.

I have never played a PBEM game, so I am going ot have to learn for this one, because I am most defiantely going to play multiplayer in any way possible.[:D][:D]


EDIT...LOL, there is always the cheap alternative...... Gamespy.. *ducks the objects being thrown*

[paullus99]

PBEM is so easy, I think tons of people will pick it up just for that. As far as turns go, well it depends....if you like to scrutinize all your options & areas of the map, it could take an hour or more to finalize your turn....on the other hand, if you're not into all the minutia, you could probably do a decent turn in 10 - 15mins.

It will completely depend on the player....and their comfort level with the interface.

[Rik81]

Only an opinion (but that is what they all are, right?). I don't think the lack of "an in-game solution" will cost that many sales, though obviously some. There are a lot of people that do PBEM games, and many of them are doing "multiple games" at the same time. (Well not the SAME time, but you get what I mean.)

The type of game I would really like to see is the WEGO game. Those of you who have played any of the COMBAT MISSION games will know what I am talking about. In a WEGO game, each player does his/her move and then the actual execution of the move is SIMULTANEOUSLY done. This is a much more realistic/fairer system, again, IMHO. Of courese the CM games are tactical warfare, and in the case of this game (WaW) we are talking grand strategly with turns representing 3 months, so the concept is less needed.
Come to think of it, WITP is more like a WEGO system.

[Arckon]

Rik81 Definately a stong case for both styles of games I believe, variety is good, besides as I am sure you are aware Matrix has coming out in the future Combined Arms: World War II (formerly Battlefields!) this is wego.

[ravinhood]

but they cant sit back and stall the game forever, ruining everyones experience.

When you play PBEM there is no danger of that at all. That is why PBEM is much more preferred than online play. If you will notice the population of online gamers as a whole is dropping, not just Axis & Allies, but, all of the genre's. I've watched Age of Empires go from 3000 to 4000 to a little over a 1000, and of course the turn based games are practically dead. Merely handfuls of turn based players online anymore. We playing our PBEM games now.

The new avenue of multiplay seems to be going towards LAN and PBEM, with PBEM being most popular.

As an OLD TIMER it's one of the first things I look for in a game these days, besides the AI, I could care less if a game comes with "online mulitplay" anymore. But, I sure want it to have PBEM abilities. And some kind of good quality cheat prevention code. There's still some sukers out there that play in our genre that will "cheat", now, can you imagine that, they are infiltrating even our little niche group. heh

As I said if it's a patch or something maybe an expansion that adds the online multiplayer feature for GGWAW, thas fine by me, long as the major bugs get filtered out (which I don't expect a lot of MAJOR bugs to begin with).

[HardRock]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

We've talked about it and it might happen in a future patch. Keep in mind that each player's turn can take 5 to 30 minutes depending on the World Power and the player. Given that there are 5 different World Powers, that's 20 minutes to 2 hours between turns. I'm not sure how many people will really take advantage of this feature as you'll spend a lot of time waiting. It only takes 20 seconds to save the game and send an email. Would you really use this?

Joel

Perfect!!! 30 min is awesome. PBEM doesn't make sense with 5 min turns.
Internet play would not be feasible with this type of game. 30 min turn tells me there is some thinking req'd:)

-HR

[Paul Vebber]

30 min turn tells me there is some thinking req'd:)

ITs a classic trap of being a kid in a candy store with only a quarter - you WANT everything - 30 Production Points on Supply, 30 PPs on research, 30 PPs building troops, but you only have 25 PPs to spend

Then there is decisicion about whether to launch a campign THIS turn and take arisk, or wait another turn to add more troops and guarentee victory. Of course the other guy then adds tropps too and you are right back where you were next turn [:@]

Like I said in the other thread, for an old counter pusher, its great to have a game that has the old "beer and pretzels" feel to it, moves fast and does't frustrate you mechanically. But will reach up and bite you in the butt, if you "dis it" and think "beer and pretzel" strategy will win...or play with many more beers than pretzels [:'(]

[CheopisIV]

I love being able to play online vs folks, and don't mind waiting for my turn as long as I can see the moves as they occur.. PBEM sounds feasable, but I'm a little disappointed that there wont be an online feature. Now I guess this all depends..if gameplay would be like the old Empire DOS game, where you don't see your opponents turn and are only privvy to the info once your turn starts, then I could see people getting bored waiting; if its like the Axis and Allies pc game where you see what your opponents are doing, then I can actually see myself sitting there for my opponents turns just for the "on the fly" strategy assessment...especially while taunting them via Teamspeak. "HAH, my single infantry just took out 6 of your armour units and 3 fighters, how's that feel?"


edit: Although I guess PBEM will open up a whole new world of taunting capability![:D]

[HardRock]

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber

30 min turn tells me there is some thinking req'd:)

ITs a classic trap of being a kid in a candy store with only a quarter - you WANT everything - 30 Production Points on Supply, 30 PPs on research, 30 PPs building troops, but you only have 25 PPs to spend

Then there is decisicion about whether to launch a campign THIS turn and take arisk, or wait another turn to add more troops and guarentee victory. Of course the other guy then adds tropps too and you are right back where you were next turn [:@]

Like I said in the other thread, for an old counter pusher, its great to have a game that has the old "beer and pretzels" feel to it, moves fast and does't frustrate you mechanically. But will reach up and bite you in the butt, if you "dis it" and think "beer and pretzel" strategy will win...or play with many more beers than pretzels [:'(]

Oh man that will be so awesome!! As an old 3R player (and other counter pushers:) I've so been looking forward to a game of this type. I don't expect the difficulty/ complexity of 3R but am surely hoping more than the beer and nuts:)

Hmm.. I'll buy supply and troops thanks:)

Well..I figure now its down to the 18th -21st to see it. Let the countdown begin.
WORLD AT WAR