Can I sell WAV?

[BlackVoid]

I bought WAW a few weeks ago, but I am very disappointed with it. Can I sell it?

[Scott_WAR]

Yes you can, but I would take the time to actually learn to play it first before giving up on it. It isnt RISK, it takes more than one game tio learn all of the rules and how the game works. If you dont understand something, all you have to do is ask here on the forums, plenty of people will be happy to answer and help you.

[celebrindal]

I'd have to agree with that. When I first started playing I was like.. what the Germans can't conq the world in two years pfftt..

Now that I've played a few games I'm loving it. So much that i'm even helping out with beta testing the patches. [:)]

[Delphinium]

Why do we assume he's disappointed because he can't get into it. I have become more disillusioned since I got to know how to play the game and found the "gamey" side of the system and tech issues have put me off playing.

[RodentDung]

ORIGINAL: Delphinium

Why do we assume he's disappointed because he can't get into it. I have become more disillusioned since I got to know how to play the game and found the "gamey" side of the system and tech issues have put me off playing.

Happens to every PC game. Even online chess is rife with exploits. I think its cause the players become the ultimate beta testers by figuring out the optimal way to play the game and everyone else must do the exact same or lose to the exploits. All fun and variety is bleached from the game and then the developers try to limit the exploits with a patch... then more exploits appear... more agony for players... more begging for a new patch... Such is the life cycle of a PC game. [:(]

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: Delphinium

Why do we assume he's disappointed because he can't get into it. I have become more disillusioned since I got to know how to play the game and found the "gamey" side of the system and tech issues have put me off playing.

Then he should remember who made the game, and needs to know that matrix usually fixes every issue the players find. So that "gamey" side of tech and such, will be fixed.

I think some see the axis and allies like graphics and think the game is going to just as simple to play as axis and allies. They dont realize they are not going to be able to be an expert in a few hours.

[BlackVoid]

Sorry, I was not clear about this.
My problem about selling is technical, I have an account with Matrix. If I sell WaW, then how will the new user get the updates? I surely do not want to pass my account details (I also have WITP which I like despite its problems).

As for my problem with the game:
The interface sux. It is easy enough to use, but you do not get enough feedback. The game design is non-transparent, full of hidden rules that are not visible to the player. Supply handling, special rules, transportation, etc. Unit building, repair, research are confusing to handle - very bad interface again. A good interface is intuitive and can be used without reading the manual, this is not the case with WaW, even after reading the manual the building screens are a pain to use.
Whatever you do on the screen, its effects MUST be shown to the player (supply cost, etc.).
I was also amazed how Egypt is worth nothing - very strange, no wonder people go after Gibraltar and Spain instead.

I am a game designer/programmer (working on my 2nd game, first one was for Hungary only). Actually, in a way I benefited from WaW, because it showed me what NOT to do in game design. Features and rules that are essentially hidden from the player (in the manual, but that is enough) are WRONG in any computer game.

[BlackVoid]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Then he should remember who made the game, and needs to know that matrix usually fixes every issue the players find. So that "gamey" side of tech and such, will be fixed.

Sorry, not true.
Land movement and map for WITP were only fixed by modders. The problem with submarines in WITP is not even recognized by Matrix. Balance is also a problem with WITP (too easy to build and supply bases and to keep even large bomber formations in action). This is also left to modders to fix.

WITP is still a very good game, despite the above so I am not complaining, just want to point out that the track record for Matrix is not flawless at all.

[abulbulian]

Sell it? You must be either nuts, didn't even try and give it a chance, or possible mentally challenged. Go back to your first person shooter games if you don’t have enough mental capacity to handle a game that requires a minimum 3rd grade educational level to play. I won't have you bad mouthing the best game of the year, IMO. A game which many war gamers have been looking forward to for many years now. Oh, and if some people think my comments are harsh on the moron. That's fine, it’s par for the course on somebody that makes a post like his. If fact, I hope he is able to sell his copy, because he doesn’t deserve it and some other lucky individual that buys it well be blessed with it!

‘Black Void’ (obviously a nickname for what’s between his ears) is a game designer? Hmm, like to see what you’ve released lately? Oh, that’s right you have nothing on the market worth mentioning. I’m been programmer for 20 years now, started on the ancient Apple ][. I’ve seen more GUI interfaces than you’ve jacked off and the one for WAW is solid. Yes, in all games there will be some bugs and possibly some play balancing issues. But, I’d rather get the game 2 months earlier than to wait while they try and cover all the beta testing with a limited number. The designer’s proactive work to fix and enhance the game is apparent from this forum alone. If you are looking for a game that has every single detail covered, good luck. There’s a fine balance between playability and details. As far as your ‘Egypt is worth nothing’ comment it’s as it was historically a strategic area, but resource wise, it had not much to offer a war effort. I do agree that Spain is a bit too easy for Germany to conquer than I’d like. The game does need to try and remove the ‘always do-no consequence’ type moves, especially when they are less historic. Maybe at some point the game will introduce a ‘Diplomatic’ section where certain DOW would have diplomatic consequences. Having Russia and US on a variable entry would be best, thus the Axis making certain conquests would bring the US or Russia into the war sooner. Anyways, I digress. This game still has much potential.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: BlackVoid
Sorry, not true.
Land movement and map for WITP were only fixed by modders. The problem with submarines in WITP is not even recognized by Matrix.

You said it yourself - it is not *recognised* as problem by Matrix (in fact 2by3, not Matrix).

So, why should they "fix" something they don't even "recognise" as problem? Just because you, and couple of other professional whiners *think* it is a problem? Well, apparently, not everyone agrees with you.

But I digress...

O.

[Toby42]

GEEZ Guys, He doesn't like the game and wants to sell it!!! It's not like he called your kid ugly??? Not everyone will like all games.. I'm not as much in love with this game as eveyone else seems to be, but that is just my own personal preference in games. It don't make it bad or wrong [:-]

[Delphinium]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Sell it? You must be either nuts, didn't even try and give it a chance, or possible mentally challenged. Go back to your first person shooter games if you don’t have enough mental capacity to handle a game that requires a minimum 3rd grade educational level to play. I won't have you bad mouthing the best game of the year, IMO. A game which many war gamers have been looking forward to for many years now. Oh, and if some people think my comments are harsh on the moron. That's fine, it’s par for the course on somebody that makes a post like his. If fact, I hope he is able to sell his copy, because he doesn’t deserve it and some other lucky individual that buys it well be blessed with it!

‘Black Void’ (obviously a nickname for what’s between his ears) is a game designer? Hmm, like to see what you’ve released lately? Oh, that’s right you have nothing on the market worth mentioning. I’m been programmer for 20 years now, started on the ancient Apple ][. I’ve seen more GUI interfaces than you’ve jacked off and the one for WAW is solid. Yes, in all games there will be some bugs and possibly some play balancing issues. But, I’d rather get the game 2 months earlier than to wait while they try and cover all the beta testing with a limited number. The designer’s proactive work to fix and enhance the game is apparent from this forum alone. If you are looking for a game that has every single detail covered, good luck. There’s a fine balance between playability and details. As far as your ‘Egypt is worth nothing’ comment it’s as it was historically a strategic area, but resource wise, it had not much to offer a war effort. I do agree that Spain is a bit too easy for Germany to conquer than I’d like. The game does need to try and remove the ‘always do-no consequence’ type moves, especially when they are less historic. Maybe at some point the game will introduce a ‘Diplomatic’ section where certain DOW would have diplomatic consequences. Having Russia and US on a variable entry would be best, thus the Axis making certain conquests would bring the US or Russia into the war sooner. Anyways, I digress. This game still has much potential.

I'm a neutral on this, but this post shows the poster in a poor light and potentially totally ignorant of what Black Void is complaining about. I myself have got more and more "irritated" with aspects of the game the deeper I got into it. Unlike Black Void, I have hopes that many of the "gamey" issues will be resolved by Matrix eventually as we the customer are currently Beta Testing and I accept that we are.
The view above is based on a total ignorance of Black Void and his depth of knowledge of the game which may be greater than his, but I won't judge on that like he did. This is not the sort of posting that is in any way constructive.

[BlackVoid]

Software interface must rely on user interaction + feedback. The latter part is very week in WaW, I am sorry to say it, but this is fact. You get no information what is used when you use extended movement, repair factories, railroads and so on.

OFF TOPIC:

"My game" 1848 was purchased by the Hungarian Ministry of Education and it is free for the public. A sequel is in the works.
You can download the game here: http://48.sulinet.hu
More than 100 000 people downloaded it, it is an educational wargame. In the best selling games magazine in the country the score for the game was 86%. Admittedly the game is sub-par graphically, but it was very low budget ($50000). In just this small country of 10 million people, more people play it than WaW will ever be played in the whole world. The team behind the game was invited to half dozen televison channels for interviews. Several news websites carried us on the front page.

An English version will be released FREE of charge later this year (late summer or early autumn). If you are not mentally challenged you can try the current version, you just need to translate about a dozen words from hungarian to english.

abulbulian, you may only address me next time if you release a game on this budget and make success. Until then you will be ignored. Your name reveals to me that you are a bully with no brains.

To Oleg: there was a vote on this (subs in WITP) and if I remember correctly most people agreed that subs have a problem in the game.

Well, I see no reason to attack anyone on this forum personally, but I had to defend myself.

[dembe73]

I agree with you on the interface, some things could have been more smooth like the ones you are mentioning (and please get a function to max research in 1 click on main research screen), but I think it is a great game apart from that to play in terms of creating and executing a strategy, especially in PBEM with humans and their great innovative plans.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: BlackVoid

To Oleg: there was a vote on this (subs in WITP) and if I remember correctly most people agreed that subs have a problem in the game.

Most of those who actually cared to vote, that is. Most players do not care to check the boards or read neverending whining threads and polls that occasionally accompany them.

But it really does not matter if 99% of all voters think something is wrong. If developers think it works as intended, then that's it, they have the final word. It's their game after all.

Being a game developer, you already know that yourself.

O.

[Toby42]

[quote]ORIGINAL: BlackVoid
abulbulian, you may only address me next time if you release a game on this budget and make success. Until then you will be ignored. Your name reveals to me that you are a bully with no brains.

Well, I see no reason to attack anyone on this forum personally, but I had to defend myself.[quote]

Amen to that. People should be allowed to voice their opinion's without someone getting in their face over it. Diversity makes the world go round...

[VicKevlar]

Alrighty....gonna only say this once. Cease with the personal shots and insults. Period. Take it to IM, PM or over at Vinny and Doggie's place....but not here.

Failure to abide by the Matrix Forums rules can result in suspensions or banning.

Get this thread back on topic.

[Grifman]

Actually, though I enjoy the game, Black Void has some excellent points. I see past them as a long time wargamer who is used to delving into rulebooks. But the game is short on feedback:

1) How much of my transport capacity did I use up by moving x amount of supply earlier this turn and how much is left to move units across the pond?

2) Why do I get an "illegal" move message? Ok, it's "illegal" tell me why?

These are just a couple of examples. I think we're all used to the wargame rule mongering paradigm and not thinking how non-wargamers might see this.

I'll also add that the poster who rudely attacked him was out of line. BV has not been rude or uncivil with his comments - he has merely given his opinion.

[Alan_Bernardo]

BlackVoid,

I downloaded your game-- it looks very nice and interesting.

Problem is, my Swedish is a bit raw.

Any chance of finding a translation?

About things being unclear in GGWaW, what I'd like to see is a log of all the battles. I know you can view them on the after-battle screen, but I'd like to be able to access a log where all the battles and die rolls and modifiers are in one place.

Most of the illegal move indicators are a result of not having enough rail on land and at sea, things dealing with sea zones and not enough transport points.

Thanks,

Alanb

[Espejo]

Not that I want to sell my copy [:'(] but did anybody answer the orginal question? When he sells the game and the new owner sets up an account will the old account be simply deleted for example?



Besides I although think he has some valid points regarding the interface. I convinced some other players at the panzerliga.de to try the game. All of them are experienced "wargamers" and they will get into it eventually. But all of them complained about the interface, hidden rules and thought it a little bit confusing in the beginning. Improvement I really don´t know. Sometimes in a programm an interface is easy to master in others you need some time. WAW is for me one of the harder to master group.

Another big complain had been that it wasnt TCP/IP and the game moves along though slowly [:'(] I know you already adress this complaint.