I am UNWORTHY

[c.topfer]

Proud FIELD MARSHALL CHRISTIAN TOPFER REPORTS:
Hi I started playing WIR some 3 weeks ago. I started off without really knowing the rules (Baaad mistake) and did ok till the blizzard of 41 hit. Well, this was due to my previously made faulst, so I decided to start again, vowing to fight on, no matter what happened. And BOY did I do good, I totally crushed the Soviets, the Red Air Force was not existent any more and while Soviet resistance stiffened close to Moscow and Leningrad the Souther Front was TOTALLY lacking Soviet units, I was basically advandcing without resistance, stopped only by my supply needs. Wow, I am the greatest general there has ever been (at least that´s what I thought!). But then, End of November, the blizzard struck again. Hah. Those puny Soviet troops can´t do me anything THIS TIME. And I still have the Luftwaffe. cool. 4 Turns later: "Pleaaaaase. I am only a HUMBLE German General, PLEASE you GREAT Soviets, leave my Wehrmacht alive!!!" What happened?
1) Suddenly there was a HELL OF A LOT Russian Planes. WTF did they all come from?
2) When nearing Stalingrad, the Soviet built up a Front with about 4-5 armies, who totally crushed my advancing forces.
3) In the middle and northern Front I can kinda hold on to my front, bot losses in Tanks, Planes and especially guns ARE STAGGERING.
I am pretty sure I can not mount an offensive once this $"%/&$% blizzard is gone. How long will it take? I "tested" it by making the Soviet player Human and it took UNTIL MARCH. HELL, in MARCH the Russians will be in Cologne.

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

a) What is the general strategy for fighting during Blizzard?
b) Should I launch counterattacks in WINTER turns (not Blizzard, but snowing)?
c) Should the Luftwaffe fly any attakcs during Blizzard or should I spare and train it for the Sumemr Offensive?
d) Should I hold on to the ground during blizzard or go for an all aroung retreat turn for turn, so that soviet supply doesn´t work all to good?

PLEASE HELP, asks humble and unworthy PRIVATE Christian Topfer...

[c.topfer]

One more thing:
Why is it that the Luftwaffe seems to perform rather poor againt the soviet fighters? Not only during blizzard?
I think I remember reading sth. about a Luftwaffe bug in a message? Is there such a thing?

[Rumpelmauser]

Originally posted by c.topfer:
Proud FIELD MARSHALL CHRISTIAN TOPFER REPORTS:
Hi I started playing WIR some 3 weeks ago. I started off without really knowing the rules (Baaad mistake) and did ok till the blizzard of 41 hit. Well, this was due to my previously made faulst, so I decided to start again, vowing to fight on, no matter what happened. And BOY did I do good, I totally crushed the Soviets, the Red Air Force was not existent any more and while Soviet resistance stiffened close to Moscow and Leningrad the Souther Front was TOTALLY lacking Soviet units, I was basically advandcing without resistance, stopped only by my supply needs. Wow, I am the greatest general there has ever been (at least that´s what I thought!). But then, End of November, the blizzard struck again. Hah. Those puny Soviet troops can´t do me anything THIS TIME. And I still have the Luftwaffe. cool. 4 Turns later: "Pleaaaaase. I am only a HUMBLE German General, PLEASE you GREAT Soviets, leave my Wehrmacht alive!!!" What happened?
1) Suddenly there was a HELL OF A LOT Russian Planes. WTF did they all come from?
2) When nearing Stalingrad, the Soviet built up a Front with about 4-5 armies, who totally crushed my advancing forces.
3) In the middle and northern Front I can kinda hold on to my front, bot losses in Tanks, Planes and especially guns ARE STAGGERING.
I am pretty sure I can not mount an offensive once this $"%/&$% blizzard is gone. How long will it take? I "tested" it by making the Soviet player Human and it took UNTIL MARCH. HELL, in MARCH the Russians will be in Cologne.

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

a) What is the general strategy for fighting during Blizzard?
b) Should I launch counterattacks in WINTER turns (not Blizzard, but snowing)?
c) Should the Luftwaffe fly any attakcs during Blizzard or should I spare and train it for the Sumemr Offensive?
d) Should I hold on to the ground during blizzard or go for an all aroung retreat turn for turn, so that soviet supply doesn´t work all to good?

PLEASE HELP, asks humble and unworthy PRIVATE Christian Topfer...

---

[Rumpelmauser]

Originally posted by c.topfer:
Proud FIELD MARSHALL CHRISTIAN TOPFER REPORTS:
Hi I started playing WIR some 3 weeks ago. I started off without really knowing the rules (Baaad mistake) and did ok till the blizzard of 41 hit. Well, this was due to my previously made faulst, so I decided to start again, vowing to fight on, no matter what happened. And BOY did I do good, I totally crushed the Soviets, the Red Air Force was not existent any more and while Soviet resistance stiffened close to Moscow and Leningrad the Souther Front was TOTALLY lacking Soviet units, I was basically advandcing without resistance, stopped only by my supply needs. Wow, I am the greatest general there has ever been (at least that´s what I thought!). But then, End of November, the blizzard struck again. Hah. Those puny Soviet troops can´t do me anything THIS TIME. And I still have the Luftwaffe. cool. 4 Turns later: "Pleaaaaase. I am only a HUMBLE German General, PLEASE you GREAT Soviets, leave my Wehrmacht alive!!!" What happened?
1) Suddenly there was a HELL OF A LOT Russian Planes. WTF did they all come from?
2) When nearing Stalingrad, the Soviet built up a Front with about 4-5 armies, who totally crushed my advancing forces.
3) In the middle and northern Front I can kinda hold on to my front, bot losses in Tanks, Planes and especially guns ARE STAGGERING.
I am pretty sure I can not mount an offensive once this $"%/&$% blizzard is gone. How long will it take? I "tested" it by making the Soviet player Human and it took UNTIL MARCH. HELL, in MARCH the Russians will be in Cologne.

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

a) What is the general strategy for fighting during Blizzard?
b) Should I launch counterattacks in WINTER turns (not Blizzard, but snowing)?
c) Should the Luftwaffe fly any attakcs during Blizzard or should I spare and train it for the Sumemr Offensive?
d) Should I hold on to the ground during blizzard or go for an all aroung retreat turn for turn, so that soviet supply doesn´t work all to good?

PLEASE HELP, asks humble and unworthy PRIVATE Christian Topfer...

---

Hello General Topfer

In Blizzard there is not much to-do against the Red army,so try to save your troops and build line after line of entrechments to slow their advance.If a line collapse go back to the next.They need the rail,so try to suggest his moves and defend here with stronger units,until things went bad.Dont afraid to pull back the whole line some hexes,if it seem impossible to stop them.Defend cities,its the only place where you are full supplied.To deal with the red planes is difficult when he dont appear in the air.So produce from the start FW 190 and rotate you planes to keep them in shape.

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by c.topfer:
Proud FIELD MARSHALL CHRISTIAN TOPFER REPORTS:

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

a) What is the general strategy for fighting during Blizzard?
b) Should I launch counterattacks in WINTER turns (not Blizzard, but snowing)?
c) Should the Luftwaffe fly any attakcs during Blizzard or should I spare and train it for the Sumemr Offensive?
d) Should I hold on to the ground during blizzard or go for an all aroung retreat turn for turn, so that soviet supply doesn´t work all to good?

PLEASE HELP, asks humble and unworthy PRIVATE Christian Topfer...

---

Christian

Here is what i do, and you should really set up for blizzard well before it starts so i dont know how much help this will be.

As soon as mud/snow starts i pull all PZ Kps out of the line and shift them back about 6 or 7 hexes or so depending on the shape of the front. They will form the strongpoints for a line that will stop the soviets at the very end of their blizzard rampage.
Also all PzJ/stug and artillery units are pulled out to rear HQ's as they suffer bad readiness problems in blizzard and are more hinder than help.
The front should now be manned by Inf Korps only with 4 inf divs per Korps.
Let them settle in and entrench (as much as the soviets will allow) and do not use special supply
if possible as you want your divisions to settle to the natural readiness state of snow turns (hopefully you get a few prior to blizzard starting) which is about 75% i think.
On the first blizzard turn readiness will drop to about 50% and from then on do your very best to keep units at about 40 to 50% readiness. Higher than that and they may shatter.
Use flexible defence during the blizzard. Pull back any bulges caused by soviet advances and try to keep the line intact. But do not make big jumps backward, make the soviets force the line back.
Eventually near the end of blizzard the infantry will have been pushed back to where the Pz Kps are waiting and you can use the strongest Inf units to fill in holes in that line. Once blizzard ends try to pull the panzers back a hex or two for rest and refit for summer.

I use the Luftwaffe pretty spareingly during this time but you can do major damage to the soviets with suprise airbase attacks now and then.

All up defending as germans during blizzard is not easy but it can be done. The above method is based on the idea that the panzers must be preserved mostly undamaged for the summer of 1942. It is the german armour that will win the war, not the infantry.

Also this is all based on fighting a human. not the AI. I have no experience as germans against the AI in blizzard. (all my play is pbem)

Hope this helps

Loki
--------------------------
Edit

PS. Also i only attack with the infantry in situations where i've 3 or 4 units adjacent and the soviet unit is very weak.
And i forgot, Use the Luftwaffe to its maximum effect on any soviet units that end up adjacent to your Pz Kps and you can do static attacks with the Pz Kps to weaken those particular sov units without loosing entrenchment. The idea again is to prevent any serious damage to the armour.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

[mogami]

Hi, and remember the Blizzard has been toned down fro the orginal (10% lossess in every unit East of Poland and not in a city hex) Boy in those days the squad reserve pool had to be around 20k before blizzard hit or the army simply collapsed.
I have seen games where the German plan from the outset was to kill as many Soviets in 41 as possible. Then when mud hit German retreated all the way back to the 41 start line with the panzers ungoing a massive refit during the winter.
(Infantry Korps were left in certain key cites)The Luftwaffe pounded any advance Soviet armour.
And any Soviet units that got next to the entrenched cities were hit hard the turn they arrived. The German plan was to go for broke in 42 with a starting infantry reserve as high as possible (and all divisions near full stregth). I hav'nt seen this method tried in the newer versions. As mentioned do not build 109's just 190's (also only build one bomber, one tank, building lots of differnet types of equippment means sometimes you can't help units that get reduced. Don't move in bad weather unless you are forced to (be where you belong before the blizzard hits)(You usally get a week or two of mini blizzard followed by a week or two of snow and then the real blizzard shows up. Any units caught out of position by first blizzard turn should 'freeze' (LOL) and if it is not life threatning wait for those snow turns and then run like......back to where it belongs.

[Rumpelmauser]

I don't agree to produce only one panzer typ.German Panzer units are divided between Panzer(Tank),Stug(assault gun) and Panzerjäger(Tank hunter).This is from the beginning of the game.Later with the arrival of the Tiger,are heavy Panzers are added too.
You cant change the type of a Units,so you can change between different Panzer models but you can't change to Stug or Jagdpanzer.If you dont produce them,their formations they will bleed out pretty soon.Take a look at the editor readme-file,you will see that the older different Panzer,Stug,Jagdpanzer will converted to better models.

This is also true for the soviets.I suggest not to change the production of any tank.Even the bad T60 will convert later to the Su 76 and the old models like bt 5,7 and T37 are converted to them.

Rumpelmauser

[c.topfer]

Well, I planned on capturing Moscow during my Summer offensive 1942...is it normal that I had mud well into may? This really frustrated me. And why is it, that my bombardments of Soviet Airfields are not as successful any more than they were in 41? Also I am not able anymore to fight big encirclments and get the soviets out of supply. My Panzerkorps all fight with about 150-200 infantry squads, how am I supposed to breakt through Soviet armies consisting of 5+ divisons?!!?? So should I try to slug it out and force them back all along the front? Can I win the war this way? I doubt it.

Pleas help me

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Rumpelmauser:
I don't agree to produce only one panzer typ.German Panzer units are divided between Panzer(Tank),Stug(assault gun) and Panzerjäger(Tank hunter).This is from the beginning of the game.Later with the arrival of the Tiger,are heavy Panzers are added too.
You cant change the type of a Units,so you can change between different Panzer models but you can't change to Stug or Jagdpanzer.If you dont produce them,their formations they will bleed out pretty soon.Take a look at the editor readme-file,you will see that the older different Panzer,Stug,Jagdpanzer will converted to better models.

This is also true for the soviets.I suggest not to change the production of any tank.Even the bad T60 will convert later to the Su 76 and the old models like bt 5,7 and T37 are converted to them.

Rumpelmauser

---

Hi.

This is what i do in any '41 game.
(note this is for the standard game, possum is slightly different)
By the second turn german factories wil be..
Tanks...
1 x stg111b, 1 x Pzjg1b, all the rest Pz111h.
Planes...
1 x He111, 2 x Ju88, 1 x Ju87, 1 x Me109f all the rest
Fw190a. (the 109 changes to 190 in late '41)

Or for Soviets.
Tanks...
3 x Kv11, all the rest T34m40
Planes...
2 x Pe2, 2 x Il4, all the rest Yak1.

I do all the unit refiting myself as vehicle/planes are produced. Does it make a difference?
You bet it does. If the game allows me to control production then you can be sure i am going to do so. With controlled production and refit, by the summer of 42 (as german) i can have 9 or 10 CV250+ Pz Kps ready to roll and the Luftwaffe is much stronger.

(also check out my comments on production in the HintsHouserules.doc avialable at the URL at post one of the WiR Download site thread.)

Loki

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by c.topfer:
My Panzerkorps all fight with about 150-200 infantry squads, how am I supposed to breakt through Soviet armies consisting of 5+ divisons?!!??
Pleas help me

---

Christian

"My PanzerKorps" .. exactly.

Rebuild, refit and organise them to be as powerfull as possible within the framework of the game.
Then use them as they are meant to be used.

Practice.

Loki

PS.
I looked up your e-mail addy and have sent you a turn from an earlier game for you to check out the german situation.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by c.topfer:
And why is it, that my bombardments of Soviet Airfields are not as successful any more than they were in 41?

---

That's normal, Airfield attacks are deliberately better for the Germans in the first 2 turns of '41, and the Soviet air groups take awhile to recover so your attacks are better in '41. Things are supposed to get a little tougher as time goes on.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
[QB]This is what i do in any '41 game.

---

Some people prefer to do realistic production instead of pure fantasy, that's what he was talking about. Different strokes for different folks, that's all.

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:



Some people prefer to do realistic production instead of pure fantasy, that's what he was talking about. Different strokes for different folks, that's all.

---

Ed

If it is pure fantasy then it is a bug and should be adressed as such. However i see it this way. The factories were built by men and produced what men wanted just as the armies were men and went where men said to go.
If a player has control of the armies and can produce an alternate history with every new turn then why would that player be doing unrealistic things when he tells his factories to produce 'product X'. In all cases product 'X' is already being produced in some factories so the player is just doing a 'speer' by rationalising his factories to produce the product he actually wants.

What Rumplemauser actually said was that as the stug and PzJg units cannot be changed to Main battle tanks then it is unrealistic to convert all factories to such.
I see no problem here as my example still has both types being produced.
Latter in the game i usually increase the number of Stg/Pzjg factories untill by '43 ther are 2 to 3 producing Marder2 and 4 producing Stg3g.

If he says "I suggest not to change the production of any tank." then by all means 'he' does not have to.

The game allows me to control the 'Battle front' and the 'Production front' and i feel i would be doing a disservice to my efforts with the ground forces if i did not also do my best with the production front.

Once again, if doing my best on the production front is producing a fantasy then why is it not called a bug?

Loki

[mogami]

Hi, I should have been more clear in my post. Idid not mean change all AFV factories to producing same AFV I meant (and said) change all tank factories to produce 1 type) And now I realize I myself usally produce 2 type (PZ-III series and PZ-IV series) I usally have 2-1or3-1 PZ-III factory to PZ-IV factry) And in the Panzer Division 2 BN PZ-III and one PZ-IV with all the independent PZ formations first getting older models and then upgrading them too after all the Panzer Divisions are done. When the Tiger becomes available I don't build any other type tank (the pools will be used as units upgrade to Tigers)
That would not be historical in reality but it is almost required if you want to have a chance in the game. (a few scattered Tiger formations does not matter much) I use TD and Stugs all through war and always have factorys producing them (but only 1 model)

[panamajo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by c.topfer:
Proud FIELD MARSHALL CHRISTIAN TOPFER REPORTS:
[...]
And BOY did I do good, I totally crushed the Soviets, the Red Air Force was not existent any more and while Soviet resistance stiffened close to Moscow and Leningrad the Souther Front was TOTALLY lacking Soviet units, I was basically advandcing without resistance, stopped only by my supply needs. Wow, I am the greatest general there has ever been (at least that´s what I thought!). But then, End of November, the blizzard struck again. Hah. Those puny Soviet troops can´t do me anything THIS TIME. And I still have the Luftwaffe. cool. 4 Turns later: "Pleaaaaase. I am only a HUMBLE German General, PLEASE you GREAT Soviets, leave my Wehrmacht alive!!!" What happened?

You got caught by the historical correctness which comes with WIR.
SCNR

1) Suddenly there was a HELL OF A LOT Russian Planes. WTF did they all come from?

These are the redrawn and rebuild remnants of SU airfoce, slowly building up and being trained in STAVKA. IMO the AI tends to concentrate and press them into service when a VP is under attack (like Stalingrad).

2) When nearing Stalingrad, the Soviet built up a Front with about 4-5 armies, who totally crushed my advancing forces.

Same as above, but these armies have most likely been there long before you came near. The AI knows about entrenchment and builds strongpoints long before you reach them.
Comments from the AI coders (am I wrong?) are welcome <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

3) In the middle and northern Front I can kinda hold on to my front, bot losses in Tanks, Planes and especially guns ARE STAGGERING.

That's Zhukow kicking your *** .
Again, historically correct. If he breaks through, you're in trouble!

[...]
a) What is the general strategy for fighting during Blizzard?

Just don't. They will fight you.

b) Should I launch counterattacks in WINTER turns (not Blizzard, but snowing)?

In 41: no! Try to resupply where you can.
Else: if you can afford it and the target is worth it.
HTH, panamajo

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Mogami:
Hi, I should have been more clear in my post. Idid not mean change all AFV factories to producing same AFV I meant (and said) change all tank factories to produce 1 type) And now I realize I myself usally produce 2 type (PZ-III series and PZ-IV series) I usally have 2-1or3-1 PZ-III factory to PZ-IV factry) And in the Panzer Division 2 BN PZ-III and one PZ-IV with all the independent PZ formations first getting older models and then upgrading them too after all the Panzer Divisions are done. When the Tiger becomes available I don't build any other type tank (the pools will be used as units upgrade to Tigers)
That would not be historical in reality but it is almost required if you want to have a chance in the game. (a few scattered Tiger formations does not matter much) I use TD and Stugs all through war and always have factorys producing them (but only 1 model)

---

Mogami

Hi

Yes i understand what you were saying.
Some might say to me that having all factories (that are not producing stg/pzjg, i'm talking 1941 here) producing only Pz3h is unrealistic because it leaves most Pz Bn's in the Pz divisions without production support.
This is not so. By sep/oct those Pz3h factories are producing enough tanks to refit one 50 vehicle Bn a turn and if you rotate the Bn types refited then you are constantly topping up the tank pools of the types you are not producing. So if i replace a Pz38t bn of 50 tanks with Pz3h type then i am 'producing' 50 Pz38t's to go into the pool.
(and next turn it might be Pz4e)

There are many precedents for producing only one Main Battle Tank within a nations armed forces.
Correct me if i'm wrong but does the US army have any other MBT but the M1 Abrams ?

"That would not be historical in reality but it is almost required if you want to have a chance in the game."

Every turn you move your ground forces is not historical in reality, it is not what actually happened, why is production any different. Ground units (corps) may be reorganised and made more efficient,Strategy and tactics also, why not production?
If the germans did not produce one type of MBT it does not mean they 'could not' have done so.
It's the same logic as,,,
Just because the germans did not capture Moscow does not mean they 'could not' have done so.

Loki

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by panamajo:
Same as above, but these armies have most likely been there long before you came near. The AI knows about entrenchment and builds strongpoints long before you reach them.
Comments from the AI coders (am I wrong?) are welcome <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[/QB]

---

You don't have to be an AI coder. Load a game as 2 player after the AI has gone through a couple of turns and you can see it deploys units early so they have time to entrench, at places like Leningrad. Stalingrad, Moscow, Kiev, etc.

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:


Ed

If it is pure fantasy then it is a bug and should be adressed as such.

---

No, its a game option Gary put in there so folks could play whatever way they wanted, and to allow what-if playing. Hitler was in a cooperative alliance with the military industrial complex, there was a lot of the "good ole' boy network" thing going on, Hitler didn't micromanage it himself. The idea that Germany would shut down the Messerchsmit aircraft research complex in favor of Folkwolfe is crazy. Germany relied on competition between these groups just as the US did. It was suicidal to go with one implementation because of the risks associated with putting all your eggs in one basket. You do that in the game because the future is already known, and the implementations like the FW190 are known to be without flaws. You don't have to worry about the what might go wrong with designs in use, what comes next, and who will design it, because the next 4 years are all nicely planned out for you. You can play it that way Loki, I did for some time, and occasionally will do so again, but its still fantasy.

[Lokioftheaesir]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:



No, its a game option Gary put in there so folks could play whatever way they wanted, and to allow what-if playing. Hitler was in a cooperative alliance with the military industrial complex, there was a lot of the "good ole' boy network" thing going on, Hitler didn't micromanage it himself. The idea that Germany would shut down the Messerchsmit aircraft research complex in favor of Folkwolfe is crazy. Germany relied on competition between these groups just as the US did. It was suicidal to go with one implementation because of the risks associated with putting all your eggs in one basket. You do that in the game because the future is already known, and the implementations like the FW190 are known to be without flaws. You don't have to worry about the what might go wrong with designs in use, what comes next, and who will design it, because the next 4 years are all nicely planned out for you. You can play it that way Loki, I did for some time, and occasionally will do so again, but its still fantasy.

---

ED

"Gary put in there so folks could play whatever way they wanted, and to allow what-if playing."

Really? Sounds like a fall back to me. Gary, did you allow production reorganisation as some thing to 'play with'. Not realistic or what? I think you put it in the game for the same reasons i would. Because the axis (or soviets) have every right to modify their own production.

And on to the main body of the post.
---------------------------

I do not agree.

By that logic all i have to do to avoid a 'fantasy' is keep i factory buildng 109's. (while they gear up for Me262's)

The Fw-190 was already in service, the bugs were worked out.

"The idea that Germany would shut down the Messerchsmit aircraft research complex in favor of Folkwolfe is crazy."

To use the US example. What happened to..

Curtis
North American
Consolidated
Republic....? Crazy?

If the game gives me omnipotent power to send a reformed Pz corps into attack on Kalinin or Moscow it also give me the power to tell some REMF to produce a copy of the FW190 in Me factories while that same company works on more advanced designs.

The game postulates that 'i' am the leader. I can order what i damn well want. What actually happened is of no relevance.

The game offers me this option on the battle front 'and' the production front. Nothing i have said 'could not' be done if ordered. Not one thing.

Loki

PS. I think you are saying that no-one would have the forethought to do exactly the right thing to win the war for the axis. Wrong, it could have happened. How could you 'know' it could'nt.?

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:

And on to the main body of the post.

I do not agree.

---

I figured as much.

By that logic all i have to do to avoid a 'fantasy' is keep i factory buildng 109's. (while they gear up for Me262's)

The Fw-190 was already in service, the bugs were worked out.

---

No, the logic here is not relying on only one plane for your entire air force, that's why Germany had the ME series and FW series of planes simultaneously, why the Brits had Hurricanes and Spitfires simultaneously (and later Mustangs), and why the US had the P38, P47, and P51 planes simultaneously.

As for bugs in an airplane, you NEVER know when the bugs are worked out, NEVER. Boeing is still finding that out with its venerable line of DC-10, 747, and 767 aircraft.

To use the US example. What happened to..

Curtis
North American
Consolidated
Republic....? Crazy?

---

What gives you the idea the US closed any of these companies?!?

North American was still independent in 1945, eventually became part of Rockwell International, now part of Boeing.

Curtis was still independent in 1945, and still exists as Curtis-Wright, making parts for F-16s among other things.

Consolidated merged with somebody in 1962, long after the war.

Republic was alive and well in 1964, long after the war.

Don't make an outrageous allegation and not expect someone to check your "facts", Loki.

If the game gives me omnipotent power to send a reformed Pz corps into attack on Kalinin or Moscow it also give me the power to tell some REMF to produce a copy of the FW190 in Me factories while that same company works on more advanced designs.

---

Like I said, NO ONE depends on just one aircraft in a category during war time.

The game postulates that 'i' am the leader. I can order what i damn well want.

---

The key word here is GAME. Its a game Loki, games tend to let you do things you couldn't do in real life.

What actually happened is of no relevance.

---

ROFL!!!! That kinda answers the whole argument doesn't it? Reality is of no relevence to you. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

PS. I think you are saying that no-one would have the forethought to do exactly the right thing to win the war for the axis. Wrong, it could have happened. How could you 'know' it could'nt.?

---

Loki, be serious for just a second before you get silly on us. Boeing is finding flaws today in aircraft that have been flying for 30 YEARS. No one could foresee all those problems, believe me, considering all the lawsuits they had to pay out, Boeing wishes they could have foreseen all the problems. We're talking about hi-tech equipment that, by necessity, was on the bleeding edge in its time. You can't reasonably say someone could have foreseen what would work, what wouldn't work, and the problems faced by accepted designs as they were implemented and used. And not everything was planned or could be planned for. Look at the P-51. It was the idea of a TEST PILOT to put in an in-line Merlin engine into the Mustang airframe, for Christ's sake! The designers never thought of that. The P-51, as it became, WAS NOT PLANNED, and could not even be foreseen by its own designers! Be serious, Loki.