Core Force Selections (Revisited)

[KG Erwin]

I've gotten my USMC core force down, so let's move on to everyone's favorites--the Germans. The biggest problem is the proper force ratio of tanks to infantry. In long campaigns, the general rule should be one tank company for every three infantry companies. Tanks alone can't protect a defense or delay frontage--infantry can.

Now, we still have to deal with the proper use of combined arms, but national doctrinal differences play a part in this. For the Germans, anti-tank defence is the function of the AT guns and in some cases the direct-fire light Infantry Guns. Against light tanks the le IGs are very effective.

Therefore, I modified my German OOB for the 1939 motorized rifle companies--each contains three rifle platoons (minus the 50mm mortars), three Opel Blitz platoons, two 81mm mortars (with one Opel as transport), two 75mm IGs (with Sdkfz 11s as transport), and two 37mm ATGs (also with SdKfz 11s).

The tank company is also a new mix-- the HQ section is two PzIIs. I have four platoons, each consisting of three PzIIs and two Pz Is.

Add to this an Engineer Platoon and five Opels, four Flak Pz 10/4s, and a customized Recon Company.

The Recon Company is another custom mix--in Sept 1939, you have four SdKfz 221s, a Motorcycle Platoon, and an Infantry Scout Platoon , mounted on three Stoewers. You can buy two of these companies.

So, you have 22 tanks and 36 infantry squads--not an unreasonable ratio for 1939, supported by six IGs, six ATGs, and six 81mm mortars. The Recon element is strong, as per German doctrine, and can be upgraded to a pretty powerful deep-strike force as the campaign progresses. This allows you much flexibility for future upgrades, but does not allow for an unrealistic tank-heavy force.

Apart from the obvious tank upgrades, one thing you can do is upgrade the Scout Teams to Spec Ops Teams and the accompanying Stoewers to halftracks. With the upgrades to the armored cars and with the motorcyclists, this is a force that can wreak havoc in the enemy rear areas. Once you get your engineers mounted on halftracks, these can accompany the deep-strike force.

[KNomad]

Very nice KG [8D]

Just how many points are you talking about anyway?!
Maybe it's just me, but I prefer a much smaller core force.
It makes it much easier for me to really identify with MY troopies.

[KG Erwin]

Using true troop costs, this is the default point level of 3100 in starting a German long campaign. Yes, it's a large force (a reinforced motorized infantry battalion), and I spent 3096 points. This is why I customized the OOBs, but didn't change any unit costs. (Note that I don't bother with the 50mm mortars or the ATRs).

The main point I wanted to emphasize was the force ratio of one tank company to three infantry companies, plus the support heavy weapons/engineers/recon-- this is basically the mix I use for my 1942 USMC battalion, too.

[KNomad]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Note that I don't bother with the 50mm mortars or the ATRs.

I think ATRs and 50mm Mortars are very under-rated. I love them!
Their small crew size means they stay unspotted easily.
ATRs are fairly effective with side/rear shots, and suppress nicely in any case.
50mm mortars perform much better when used in a direct fire mode.

And I definately agree with the 3-1 ratio of Infantry to AFVs.

[Poopyhead]

But I like having sixty panzers in my battalion (the historical TO&E was 78).

[KNomad]

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

But I like having sixty panzers in my battalion (the historical TO&E was 78).

60 Panzers?! OMG!

In my book, what makes a game great (such as SPWAW is) is the ability for different people to play the game according to their own tastes and criteria, even if radically different from someone else's.

[KG Erwin]

Yes, the game's "customability" is one of its strongest features. While I do sometimes enjoy blasting an enemy AFV at long range and watching it "brew up", I still prefer the down & dirty close-quarters infantry battles. Also, there's the satisfaction one gets when a troublesome bunker or cave gets the old "corkscrew & blowtorch" treatment.

and We Marine fans are a strange breed, indeed.

[Poopyhead]

KNomad, like KG, I started with the default purchase, but I bought a lot of armored cars. I gradually upgraded and by the summer of '42 I spent about 8k and switched my HT's, Pz II, Pz III and Pz IVc's to the long barreled Pz IV's. Now, in addition to the panzers, I have four engineer squads, sixteen spec ops units, and twelve each, recon patrols, 81 mm mortars, 88 mm ATG's with transport, Wurfrahmen, SPAA and the 15 cm SPA guns in four maneuver companies. As you both stated, the best thing about the long campaign is the customizing. Curiously, I had been experimenting with a mechanized USMC core force.

[KG Erwin]

A mechanized USMC core force? If you start a campaign in '42, this would be a heap of junk within two or three battles. Don't tell me you load them up with recon squads--no, this just ain't right, but to each his own. [;)] The joy in playing as the Marines are the yearly upgrades to your infantry squads, if you have enough purchase points. I started off one campaign with my entire core as Raiders or Paras, but it felt gamey to me. However, you guys have the freedom to play as you see fit, and that's the beauty of SPWaW.

[KG Erwin]

A core force selection as the Russians, say starting in November 1939, when you will face the Finns. This one is tough. The basic formula of one tank company to three rifle companies should still apply, but the exact composition is the question. Experience levels are low, so a player will face a difficult challenge in keeping their core force from taking losses that can't be fixed completely in the next battle. Any suggestions?

The bugaboo for the Russians is that they jump from the Winter War straight into the Great Patriotic War. You now have some great units to choose from, but a shortage of purchase points. What do you do?

[Goblin]

Infantry and cheap tanks up the whazoo.

I use horde tactics, and, for once, ignore losses and pile on. It really cool winning a battle and seeing a huge amount of casualties instead of less than a fifty or a hundred.

You can easily go 4 or more conscript companies to a tank company for wave attacks. I will back a company of BT5's or 7's with two KV's, and just swarm them. Fun stuff.


Goblin

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Infantry and cheap tanks up the whazoo.

I use horde tactics, and, for once, ignore losses and pile on. It really cool winning a battle and seeing a huge amount of casualties instead of less than a fifty or a hundred.

You can easily go 4 or more conscript companies to a tank company for wave attacks. I will back a company of BT5's or 7's with two KV's, and just swarm them. Fun stuff.


Goblin

Ok, this sounds like the thing to do. I can only shudder at the thought of facing a force like this in 1944, when the tanks are T-34s and a few heavies. [X(]

[Goblin]

Later in the war I do go with more tanks, but it is so fun wave-charging infantry that I just can't resist...[:)]

[Poopyhead]

KG, my admiration for the Marines went up immensely when I saw what they had to work with. I've experimented with a HQ company with the artillery and FO, and four mixed combined arms companies as a template and it works for about every major country so far (Japanese tanks suck). I rely on the Russian 120 mm mortars to deal with the Finns.

[Goblin]

Well this made me start Heros of the Motherland again, lol. On my second turn, I let one of my T26's shoot long range at an enemy scout car. Sure enough, Stukas turned up to try and blast him. It was a trap. They ran headlong into 4 GAZ AA vehicles and 2 85mm AA guns. No more Stukas.[:)] Its like beating up on a kid, lol.

I broke their morale on turn 13, although another turn or two, and they would have had most of the forward victory hexes, which would not have been good.[:(]


Goblin

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

KG, my admiration for the Marines went up immensely when I saw what they had to work with. I've experimented with a HQ company with the artillery and FO, and four mixed combined arms companies as a template and it works for about every major country so far (Japanese tanks suck). I rely on the Russian 120 mm mortars to deal with the Finns.

Yeah, I agree about Japanese tanks. The M4s have a field day against them, BUT, the Shermans do have a tough time when facing the 47mm ATGs and the heavier Japanese artillery & mortars (and also those suicide AT teams) . That's why you gotta keep the footsloggers stacked with them. By late '44 I have one of the Satan flamers in each tank platoon--they are deadly but thin on armor protection.

[KG Erwin]

BTW, guys, the family just took off for a family visit this morning, so I'll have a week of actually being the "lord of the house". After I get some partying out of the way, it's back to the battlefield, at maximum volume. "Let there be light...sound...mortars...and BARs!"[:D]

[Maciste]

I always rely mostly on artillery, with a lot of ATG, and light AA guns, and a pair of heavy AA to bust approaching tanks. It works fine with Brits (yes, trhey never used the 3 inch AA gun as AT, but If the germans can, why not the British Bulldogs [:D][:D])

If palying with russians, HEAVY MORTAR, HEAVY MORTAR, HEAVY MORTARS! (later to upgrade to katyushas with ammo truck besides, so they won't run out of ammo) Aaah!! What a pleasure to stop those panthers with a barrage half as big as the scenario [:D][:D][:D]

[KNomad]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Using true troop costs, this is the default point level of 3100 in starting a German long campaign. Yes, it's a large force (a reinforced motorized infantry battalion), and I spent 3096 points. This is why I customized the OOBs, but didn't change any unit costs. (Note that I don't bother with the 50mm mortars or the ATRs).

The main point I wanted to emphasize was the force ratio of one tank company to three infantry companies, plus the support heavy weapons/engineers/recon-- this is basically the mix I use for my 1942 USMC battalion, too.

[center]Having been bit by the SP:WAW bug again, it's time for me to get back to the front!

Presenting ... KG KNomad 9/39 ... in my first WWII Long Campaign ...

Headquarters + GE Rifle Company* + Light Recon Company** +
Forward Observer + 81mm Mortar section + SdkFz 251/1 HalfTrack section

* Company Captain + (3) rifle platoons with MG34 & 50mm mortars + (1) Inf ATR section
** Company Captain + (3) SdkFz 231 6-Rad + (5) SdkFz 221 + (1) Motorcycle platoon


Yup - you read that right. 1000 points and no tanks to start with.[8D][/center]

[Riun T]

Hey guys, I have had good success in my efforts with the Russians by following a rule that was taught to me from an East german friend of mine. He says that the ruskies put alot of emphisis on which branch the perspective general came threw the ranks of. My example is that if the officer starts as an engineer his force is built around that doctrine,artillery,,cavelry{tanks and recce vehicles}and infantry being the final catigory of least importance to regard as they kinda showed that they had the unending supply from siberia or something!!no regard for the basic infantrymen. I made my command unit into engineers and keeped to that branch with all my other sellections like mineclearing or flametanks,and 3 recon platoons with a sniper attached,each to be joined to the hq squad of each 2 companies of engineers and one company of infantry which is also broken up into squads and reassigned to the last position of each platoon of engineers sometimes if I have the points I'll pickup a half dozen HMG's and infantry mortars to also sprinkle under the engineers platoon command. THE RUSSIANS SAW FIT TO HAVE ONE BIG ENGINEER RUNNING A BUNCH OF LITTLE ENGINEERS OR ARTTY, or cavlry, and so on and so on,but it works??? RT