fair ??????

[veritech]

what supply bonus or transport bonus should be given to the axis to make the game fair since the general veiw is that the game favors the allies??????

[Svend Karlson]

Whose general view is that? If anything I should say that opposite view is held, certainly with regard to the currently possible autovictory.

So IMHO, 0 supply help & 0 transport help should be provided to the Axis.

[Joel Billings]

I read the comment that the game was unbalanced toward the Allies in a Computer Games Magazine review. The reviewer had obviously not checked out this forum where the consensus if anything is that it's too easy for the Axis. The lesson is, don't trust any one opinion when it has to do with something as complex as a wargame.

If there's a general view on game balance (other than the Axis AV which may be reaching general view status), I'd like to know where you're getting it from. I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested in seeing the basis for the opinion.

[aletoledo]

after daily playing against a minimum of 3 different players every day since release, I have to say the game favors the axis.

Its taken me a lot of beatings to reach this point, but I think played right there is 3-4 solid strategies to win as the axis every time. The autovictory is only part of the story, the other big part is the frozen status of russia and the USA. these two factors, when used togther or seperately in any game, can score the axis a sure victory.

thats not to say anyone can start a game and willy-nilly play the axis and expect to win. What I think is that once certain nuances to this game are discovered, the axis can learn to focus on the components that win the game and become effecient in its objectives.

[Maginot]

The problem for the Allies is the god-damn U-Boats! Take someone like Svend, who I consider a very talented German player and it becomes a HUGE head-ache to try and keep his his MASSIVE U-Boat fleets under control. By the way Svend, our games taught me quite a bit. I finally learned why air-superority is so dealthly important.

[veritech]

do you count making it to 46 as winning? or are we talking about taking over the whole board?

[Svend Karlson]

ORIGINAL: veritech

do you count making it to 46 as winning? or are we talking about taking over the whole board?

The game provides a victory score at the end, plus a verdict of total, decisive or marginal victory. 'Victory' for the Axis is not taking over the world, but rather putting in a better than historical performance.

If Germany still had signficant territory left in 46, you would most likely get a German victory. Before you get anywhere near taking over even half the world you would get a German production points 'autovictory' at present.

Maginot - I may be reaching the peak of my ascendancy in our game. Luckily I have painful experience of a fighting retreat from my last AAR game! [:)]

[5cats]

Without AV it's harder for the Axis to win, but not impossible. Of course getting clobbered and "holding out" until 46 is no fun at all...
It all depends on the skills & tactics of the players. If Germany goes after Russia "on schedual" then I'd say 5 supply per turn is needed just to have a chance. However there's other ways Germany can play it, for example if they go for AV then 5 supplies will be way too much!
And taking over the world as Axis against a human isn't likely.

[veritech]

okay , my friend and i play without auto victory and no end date and until someone gives up by beleiving that their situation is hopeless. ive never played with autovictory i turned it off before i played my first game. doing beter than the nazi did historically is not hard at all and requires no supply bonus. so then if you want to play to take over the world axis and allies style would a small supply bonus say 10 or 15 for each axis player be fair. a good allied player can still win giving a ten bonus to each axis country

[aletoledo]

okay , my friend and i play without auto victory and no end date and until someone gives up by beleiving that their situation is hopeless. ive never played with autovictory i turned it off before i played my first game. doing beter than the nazi did historically is not hard at all and requires no supply bonus. so then if you want to play to take over the world axis and allies style would a small supply bonus say 10 or 15 for each axis player be fair. a good allied player can still win giving a ten bonus to each axis country

one of my regular opponents likes to play without an autovictory and no end date. I've noticed that we usually end thing before 1946 anyway most of the time. plus when the axis reaches the mid-70s in production it seems inevitable that the axis will win anyway.

I'm really a true believer in end dates and auto-victory. its wierd playing axis with a mindset of having to try and fight the USA eventually in the western hemisphere. without a gamey tactic, its seems impossible to really SUSTAIN a legitimite strike against the USA.

[Forwarn45]

Once the AV victory conditions are tweaked, I think the game will be well-balanced. An end-date gives both sides something to shoot for if neither runs away with the game. On a side note - one interesting point per the rules is that if the Allies win an automatic victory or even a total victory after 1945, it is supposed to be considered a marginal victory. I recall one PBEM game in which the Allies one a "total" victory at that point, and the victory screen itself did not note it was actually a marginal victory. This may be an important point for your tournament Svend.

The game provides a victory score at the end, plus a verdict of total, decisive or marginal victory. 'Victory' for the Axis is not taking over the world, but rather putting in a better than historical performance.

If Germany still had signficant territory left in 46, you would most likely get a German victory. Before you get anywhere near taking over even half the world you would get a German production points 'autovictory' at present.

Maginot - I may be reaching the peak of my ascendancy in our game. Luckily I have painful experience of a fighting retreat from my last AAR game!

[veritech]

so could could anyone take over the world with and axis bonus supply bonus of 15 or 20 for each country? you really dont have to take north america tons off submarines isolate it from the rest of the world

[dembe73]

anyone take over the world with and axis bonus supply bonus of 15 or 20 for each country? you really dont have to take north america tons off submarines isolate it from the rest of the world

This is very well possible although some people would consider some moves required to do so gamey and not very realistic. You need to win the Battle of Britain and probably double team on Russia to do so.

[haruntaiwan]

It would not be very gamey since if Germany did succeed in Russia, the diplomatic and Axis morale effects would be huge.

[Agema]

I played as Germany and I've never managed to produce enough subs to really dent the AI Western Allies. Instead I relied on an air force to fend the WA off whilst I ground down the USSR over land.

I find the population and resource squeezes as Axis really make things tough.

[veritech]

so what would be the smallest supply bonus needed for the axis to take over the world?

[Svend Karlson]

ORIGINAL: veritech

so what would be the smallest supply bonus needed for the axis to take over the world?

From personal experience, I really do wonder whether any kind of supply bonus would make it possible for Germany to take over the world, against an opponent of reasonably equal skill, given their population constraints.

Even without a supply bonus, plus a focus on manpower conservation through high-tech tanks for instance, I find that manpower becomes the limiting factor in pretty much everything I do from mid-43 onwards in a successful game. That is without trying to produce the transport fleet & associated protection that would be required for an amphibious invasion.

[James Ward]

Always give the AI at least 50 supply. I ran a test where I just produced the units and did the research (the AI moved and fought). The AI spent all the supply I could generate. It was especially a problem for the WA. The AI would easily spend 200 supply a turn and not even attack anything!

[veritech]

i can take over the world against the computer with 50 supply for each axis country.i could not do it with 25 each. a human is probably better than the computer, so is 50 fair. the population can be a problem but you can upgrade your unit repeatly. in real life the germans killed the russians at a 15 to 1 ratio witch is hard to replicate in the game .

[Ancient One]

ORIGINAL: veritech
in real life the germans killed the russians at a 15 to 1 ratio witch is hard to replicate in the game .

15 to 1? That sounds outrageous. I thought it was about 4 to 1.