Historical Details, Animation, and Sound

[popejoy1]

Hi!

Here are some initial thoughts:

1) Historical detail -
- I would ask that the historical detail for any one unit be limited to what it did historically and/or what it has done in the current game.
- I would ask that all the historical information be accessible from an in-game browse function that could review this information for each unit (including enemy units) in the game.

2) Animation -
- I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well. I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle.

- I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements.

- At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack.

Sound:

- I would suggest appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) for specific results tied to combat animation (if used). The player should have the option of turning these off.

- I would suggest national anthems for each participant be played for certain major events; a "national march" for national victories (i.e., enemy country surrenders), a "national hymn" for defeats, etc. For example:

• USA Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa)
• USA March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa)
• USA Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder"
• USA Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh"
• USA Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber)
• UK Anthem: "God Save the King"
• UK March: "Rule Britannia"
• UK Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten)

My $0.02!

Pablo

[Froonp]

About historical details, for the ships for WiF FE, side color views of the ships would be good is displayed in the dialog where you have all the info about the ships.

Also, blueprints 3-views of the ships can make good backgrounds to some screens about naval things. Just look at the Cruiser in Flames cover for an example (I include this in the post).

Also, about the overall design / presentation of the game, it would be good if it was in the ADG line of reds you know. Red is somehow the "color" of WiF. Look at the different covers of the different games, especially those made from 1998 and afterwards. I think most were made with the help of Rob anyway, so I hope the ADG "red" appearance will be there.

2) Animation -
- I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well.

Indeed seeing the dices for real sometimes can be fun, I like this.

You know, you could also include one kind of a cookie animation in the game, typical of something that always happens at least once during a real WiF FE game, that is the dices accidentaly tossed amongst the counters on the map wreaking havoc on the lovely counter stacks patiently made by the players[:D]. Of course, all units would go back magically to their normal place a few seconds after, this would only exist for the fun of it. I would love it.

I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle.

- I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements.

- At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron").

Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-]

MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack.

I was joking, I hope you understood (but pleaaaaase, no sprites......)

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: popejoy1
Hi!

Here are some initial thoughts:

1) Historical detail -
- I would ask that the historical detail for any one unit be limited to what it did historically and/or what it has done in the current game.
- I would ask that all the historical information be accessible from an in-game browse function that could review this information for each unit (including enemy units) in the game.

2) Animation -
- I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well. I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle.

- I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements.

- At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack.

Sound:

- I would suggest appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) for specific results tied to combat animation (if used). The player should have the option of turning these off.

- I would suggest national anthems for each participant be played for certain major events; a "national march" for national victories (i.e., enemy country surrenders), a "national hymn" for defeats, etc. For example:

• USA Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa)
• USA March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa)
• USA Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder"
• USA Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh"
• USA Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber)
• UK Anthem: "God Save the King"
• UK March: "Rule Britannia"
• UK Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten)

My $0.02!

Pablo

Very nice.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

- I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements.

- At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron").

Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-]

One of the connotations of the word 'plush' is that it is tastefully done.

As for using the 'standard' colors for WIF that ADG used, it was one of the very first points that Rob Armstrong made in discussing doing the art for MWIF.

[popejoy1]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: popejoy1
- At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron").

Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-]

Hmmm - maybe that's why "Hearts of Iron" gives the player the option to use sprites or NATO-standard symbology. I'll amend my suggestion to give the player a choice between sprites and NATO-standard symbology. [:)]

[macgregor]

Ah ha! You finally open a thread I might have some input in. Unfortunately Popejoy has stolen my thunder. I think we're all on the same page with the music. I'd like the music to be educational as well as entertaining, so I could familiarize myself with the different coutry's anthems and marches. If I could I'd like to make a plug here for the Live365 website(for which I have no affiliation) which offers thousands of radio channels for free, from every country and every time period(certainly WW2 anyway). Also very good for playing wargames are some of their movie score channels.

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else.

Rather than a paragraph or two - how about 2 or 3 sentences with a notation about how much more could be said (+, ++, +++).

OK, gives me something constructive to do while waiting for the test phase to begin.

One observation on Popejoy's comment re: ... appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) . Since WiF is a strategic game then I ponder the immediate applicability of those tactical sound effects. Perhaps sounds of troops marching or massed aircraft flyovers could give a better "big picture" effect. Maybe both types of sound bites can find their niche within the game.

[Manack]

HISTORICAL DETAIL

• Being able to access historical information on counters is an excellent idea. It would also be great if it were possible to do so on every hex in the game as well. Major battles/events fought at a particular location. Not that I would expect matrix to put in that information for every extra hex. But if the user base could mod it they will.
• Another idea would be for each turn have available the historical events that happened. That way the player could compare their capture of Paris against the historical date. Or perhaps when a unit moves into Paris in the status bar have the information scroll by. This information should be a modable part of the game. Perhaps have an OnCapture OnLiberate fields containing text to display unobtrusively on those events.

ANIMATION

Alot of these ideas will be annoying to some. But here is what my brainstorming came up with.

• Dice Rolling. Some people have firm faith in their ability to effect a dice roll by striking a bargain with the universe. Others are irritated by every gimmicky effect which slows down gameplay. This should be an optional feature.
• Counters Moving. When your opponent moves your should be able to watch the hexes they move over. Perhaps even highlight those hexes as the counter moves. This also should be able to be configured to be skipped always and skipped on demand.
• Ambience. Have factories smoke stacks billow as they work. Or if they are damaged by bombing have them burn. Rather than having to go off the weather lines have an option where the climate can be displayed over the hex via a animated cloud or some other type of effect. Providing players with immediate feedback of the status of a hex. Have tiny trains travel up and down the rail lines. Convoys sailing through the sea zones where they are placed.
• Screens. Perhaps have a background animation or scene keyed to the battle/terrain/weather being fought. A battle in a blizzard might have frosted buttons/backgrounds. It would be neat if the entire GUI subtly changed depending on the outcome of the war. So Germany it would shift from enthusiasm in 1940 to sheer desperation in 1944.
• Short optional ingame movies on major events. Fall of Paris, Berlin, Moscow etc. I tend to think they don't provide enough bang for buck. Most people would only watch them once.

SOUNDS

• Music. I would like to see the ingame music linked to the country you are playing in order to give a different feeling to each nation. Perhaps each side having its own containing folder of mp3's to which the user can add their own selections to the playlist if they desire.
• Depending on the hex, screen which has focus overlay some background noise for that selection. A industrial clanging for the production screen, tropical jungle sounds for examining a hexstack in Burma. A train toots when you railmove. Parachuts open on an airborne assault.
• Combat sounds during resolution and varying depending on units engaged and result.

[amwild]

Historical Detail:
Well, what can I say? You could put some WWII era film clips in here and there to punctuate major events such as victories/defeats. Images and specifications of the relevant nations' uniformed soldiers, tanks, trucks artillery, etc in info screens, as well as each nation's decorations. Details of famous soldiers and statesmen for each nation.

Animation:
The sea and rivers, rather than being given a flat, static texture, could have the option of animations of waves, sea shore surf and water flow. The sea animations could also reflect the weather.
The weather layer could have the option of appearing as animated layers of clouds, etc. hovering over the map.
When a unit moves, flips, or is destroyed, there could be the option of animating the event. Allow the user to control the presence and/or speed of these animations, and allow user action to interrupt them when they are switched on. There could be a variety of animations for each of these events, with a choice of either a simple animation of the "virtual cardboard" counter or a more fancy animation of whatever the action represents.

Sound:
Think of something like the event-driven Microsoft Office sounds. The user doesn't have to use them, but if they want, users can select a sound for each of a great number of events, such as button clicks, unit movement, units flipping, units being destroyed, nukes detonating, etc. If a user is still sitting in front of the PC at 6 AM, half asleep, they might appreciate an audible as well as a visible warning that something terrible is happening to them (apart from discovering that it is already 6 AM and they have to get up in half an hour). You could have a bunch of default sounds pre-configured, and a global "Play Sounds" option so they coud be enabled/disabled quickly.

[gunner333]

Hmmm...

About animations:
To buy a game I need minimum WITP(war in the pacific)'s battle animations like graphic. Its brings a personal touch,
when you see that your beloved "Bismark" fights with hordes of SwordFish torpedobombers shooting them down with its AA batteries.
Anyway I think you have to see WITP's animations. I think its the good level of graphic for the groagnant game.

[popejoy1]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else.

Rather than a paragraph or two - how about 2 or 3 sentences with a notation about how much more could be said (+, ++, +++).

OK, gives me something constructive to do while waiting for the test phase to begin.

One observation on Popejoy's comment re: ... appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) . Since WiF is a strategic game then I ponder the immediate applicability of those tactical sound effects. Perhaps sounds of troops marching or massed aircraft flyovers could give a better "big picture" effect. Maybe both types of sound bites can find their niche within the game.

Hi!

I was thinking about "boom!" sound effects as an option if animation is used to help present combat results (depending the kind of attacking unit and the kind of defending unit). If there's no animation, I would agree that the sound effects might be a bit out of place in a strategic game (and therefore should also be optional).

Pablo

[wosung]

Please do not overburden the gameplay with animations without the option to turn them off: They are time-consuming and do require fast PCs. I would rather like to see quick combat solutions in the opponents phase and a visual overview of all the hot-spots at the beginnig of my playing phase. But I like the ideas about historical music and speeches very much. This will create atmosphere without being all too time-consuming.
Regards

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: wosung
Please do not overburden the gameplay with animations without the option to turn them off: They are time-consuming and do require fast PCs. I would rather like to see quick combat solutions in the opponents phase and a visual overview of all the hot-spots at the beginnig of my playing phase. But I like the ideas about historical music and speeches very much. This will create atmosphere without being all too time-consuming.
Regards

Could you tell me more about what you mean by the above phrase I colored blue? I could make a guess, but it would be better if I just listened to you describe what you envision.

[wosung]

I think there are 2 styles of animated combat resolutions:
1. you see the actual combat plus results one by one (like in Hearts of Iron, or "animated" war in the pacific, WitP)
2. after non-interactive parts of a phase, there is some sort of overview, either sort of tabular textual combat information screen "combat in hex xy, result xy" (like in WitP) or graphical symbols on the map to click on for the information, which I prefer (like in Witp game tool or the older Gary Grigsby games Pacific war, war in Russia).
Its all about playing time and interaction: with slow turn resolution in monster-games you don't have to be a RTS fanboy to just prefer a quick combat summary. I like to stay in the game-flow, instead of watching repetitive animations or lengthy phasing-players actions, if there's nothing to do for me for a long time.
Regards

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: wosung

I think there are 2 styles of animated combat resolutions:
1. you see the actual combat plus results one by one (like in Hearts of Iron, or "animated" war in the pacific, WitP)
2. after non-interactive parts of a phase, there is some sort of overview, either sort of tabular textual combat information screen "combat in hex xy, result xy" (like in WitP) or graphical symbols on the map to click on for the information, which I prefer (like in Witp game tool or the older Gary Grigsby games Pacific war, war in Russia).
Its all about playing time and interaction: with slow turn resolution in monster-games you don't have to be a RTS fanboy to just prefer a quick combat summary. I like to stay in the game-flow, instead of watching repetitive animations or lengthy phasing-players actions, if there's nothing to do for me for a long time.
Regards

There are 2 situations that arise for seeing the other players' moves.

One is when it is done concurrently. The player moves a unit and you see what he is doing as he does it. This is the way it would work when you play agains the AI opponent, for example. Your view of the detailed map is updated as the opponent moves each unit from hex to hex (or sea area to sea area). I could also make this happen during an Internet game. It gets a little tricky, because there might be several opponents moving at once which could result in the screen jumping around from Europe to China and back - like watching MTV with 1/2 second scene changes.

The second situation is when the player has entered a bunch of moves and you are viewing them after the fact. This comes up in PBEM games and would be the standard way of bringing a player in an Internet game up to date if he stepped away from the computer for 5 - 10 minutes.

Let's focus on the second one. Possibly a lot has happened and the question is what (how much) to show the player and how. I am particularly interested in what controls should be given to the player so the review is what he wants to see, no more and no less. One breakdown might be by theater of operations. Another could be by unit type (land, air, or naval). Another could just be combats (land, air, or naval). Yet another could be reinforcement placements, say, at the beginning of a turn.

I like the idea of using the lefthand column to bring up all combats for review. Each hex and sea area where a combat occurred would be listed and the player could select them in any order he likes. I could do the same for units that have moved (or been reorganized, or arrived as reinforcements). This would let you see how the enemy is positioning his armor or fighters, for instance. For how the review plays out, I would like to just repeat what the enemy saw when he was moving the unit or fighting the combat. Besides making the programming easier (using the same code), it also would be familiar to the player. The argument is that if there are two different ways of viewing a unit move/fight then one is better than the other and it should be used all the time - with the second one trashed.

I'm falling asleep now; eyes starting to cross. Let me know if I'm on the right track. I'll give this a fresh think tomorrow.

[mlees]

I own this monster board game, and CWiF, and that affects the preconceptions I may bring to the table with my suggestions. Other posters here have already suggested the same things I will, so please forgive the repetition.

1) Historical Detail:

Hmmm. I am a WW2 history "fanboy", and I like sharing this interest with anybody patient enough to put up with it, but not everyone shares the same level of interest. There are actually two aspects to look at on this topic:

A) The first is the actual real world history of WW2 and all that involves.

This database could get quite extensive, especially if the histories of each military formation/ship had it's own entry. Encyclopedia sized database. Several hundred Megs of text. That would take a long time to collect and edit.

If you just do a broad overview of the war with selected units being spotlighted (like the U.S.S. Enterprise, or a summary of the P-51D Mustang), it will be a little more managable, but the average customer will probably not use it that extensively.

Some games I have played in the past just had paragraph sized "snapshot" summations of selected bits of the war (Like the Battle of the Atlantic) printed in the game manual. Those are probably the most doable.

Obviously time & effort versus utility will dictate how much of this type of data you wish to package up for the masses. Whether or not an in-game link or hot key for access to this database needs to be added to the interface is open to debate, but I think a single pull down menu item is sufficient. It can minimize the game window (for you windows users. I don't know MacIntosh stuff at all...) and call up a database interface browser.

B) Game history

A "replay" feature that shows a map overview with different colored shading that represents the hexes/araes controlled by each power comes to mind, here. (Kinda like the "Civ" games.) You could have a table/chart that shows and compares the production capacity of the major powers turn by turn, with possiblity to include what that production was spent on by gearing limits.

I am not a programmer, but B) sounds doable, and the grognards would eat that kind of feature up.

2) Animation

Hmmm. I dont see a whole lot of need for this. (Based on my CWiF preconceptions.) Having nice artwork for the game counters is what I hope for. (Being able to see the same ship silhouette, aircraft image, etc, as the "Ships in Flames" and "Planes in Flames" counters would be ideal for me. Possibly expand this to land units by including images of tank models for armored units, infantry soldiers by nationality, etc.)

This isn't a real time strategy game, and there shouldn't be animated tanks and aircraft buzzing about shooting at one another. That is just my opinion, but in GGWAW, I turned that stuff off almost immediately.

As units are destroyed (or damaged, for ships) in battle, a little puff of smoke and flames is ok. For ships that are damaged (and remain on the board) during sea battles, they can "smoke" to give a visual indication of there damage status. Damaged hex facilities (like damaged factories) can also "smoke". After land combat, the counters "slide" into the newly conquered hex. Air Units "slide" from their base hex to the target hexes. This level of animation is sufficient for me.

You can have a short animated video clip of "something pertinent" as each phase is started, but that could get old, too.

In any case, animation needs to be short and to the point. It would be annoying to have to sit through the same 30 second video of a ship sinking after each ship loss or battle. And for goodness sake, make it an option feature that can be toggled off. Also, toggling off animation makes the game more friendly to low end systems.

3) Sound

As units are moved or engage in combat, the appropriate sounds are played. I select an infantry corps (or stack of land units) to move, the tramp of boots or the rumble of engines. Land units fight, I hear rifle fire, or artillery fire, etc.

But again, make it short. There is a lot of clicking in the game, and long sound (or animation) clips make that annoying. It will seem more annoying during "misclicks".

If, for example, every time I click on a unit to select it (to inspect the stack, move, or fight), the game plays a clip of some guy going "Yes Sir!" or "Awaiting orders, sir!", these sounds will get old. A simple "click" sound is best here.

Thank you for the opprotunity to offer these viewpoints.

[macgregor]

Animations IMHO would be too time consuming(for the player and the programmer) to be worth the effort. I know they could be done to look great. Perhaps a series of sounds based on weapons, then results. I'd prefer the ability to learn more about the war. For example first you analyze a stack , then you analyze a unit in that stack. You should see details about that unit. In addition to what's in CWIF you might want to add a plate drawing of the uniform or primary vehicle(or both) and perhaps some superflous information like wartime numbers of men and or vehicles, or the size of the primary battery for ships and maybe one sentence about each unit. If you allow a non-fullscreen display would be nice,as it would allow me to set my own music to the game. I must say I'm very impressed with amount of cerebral energy I'm encountering on this forum. Thanks Steve.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I like all the posts I have been reading in this thread. Sometime in the next couple of days I will pull them all together and post a summary of what I have heard. That shouldn't be taken as an attempt to close the door on suggestions. Indeed, I hope that the summary will provoke some more discussion. As always, I am looking to acheive a consensus of the forum members - I even have hopes for unanimous aggreement.

This is a little off topic while still being on topic ... I just got back from performing on the USS Missouri in Pearl Harbor at the 60th anniversity of the signing of the Japanese surrender documents which ended WW II. For those of you who don't know, the USS MIssouri is a sister ship of the USS Arizona. The latter was sunk during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor 12/7/41 and a memorial sits astride the ship in Pearl Harbor - the final resting place for 1177 men who died on her that day. The Missouri was the battleship on which the Japanese signed their unconditional surrender to the Allies 9/2/1945, in Tokyo Bay. The Missouri is open to visitors and is very impressive. It is moored 1000 yards from the Arizona Memorial. I was singing patriotic songs as a member of a barbershop chorus - a cappella martial music. Very emotional ceremony.

[Froonp]

For those of you who don't know, the USS MIssouri is a sister ship of the USS Arizona.

I'm sorry to differ, but the USS Missouri (BB-63) is not a sister ship to BB Arizona (BB-39).
USS Missouri is a Class Iowa Battleship (45000 tons, 9 x 16" guns, 33 knots), USS Arizona (31400 tons, 12 x 14" guns, 21 knots) is a Class Pennsylvania Battleship.

For more, see
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/63a.htm.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39d.htm.

Patrice

[Greyshaft]

any sound recordings made [:)]

Aircraft histories coming along fine. Interesting that ADG seem to have taken a couple of ...ahem... liberties when assembling the PiF counter mix.