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Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich is a improved and enhanced edition of Talonsoft's older Battle of Britain and Bombing the Reich. This updated version represents the best simulation of the air war over Britain and the strategic bombing campaign over Europe that has ever been made.

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Charles2222
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Charles2222 »

ORIGINAL: swift
Well you and I certainly think alike. I must tell you though, from my pre-1.5 playing

you mean 1.05 exe ?? or OA/OB ??
you can create the freeze ray with nearly every exe version, but the FR bug is probably one of the tiniest bugs, and in a PBEm you can work around it.
Other bugs were and are game destroying - like the Dover/Belfast bug ( or pingpong bug) - this damn thing is still in it, and it is annoying to start a huge 8th AF armada in late 44 in the moring and at 22:00 it is still circling above some frontline Flak fortresses. Or you start a raid and they fly back to the base and than back to the target and so on.... no way to play around it.

Yes, I was talking about the executable, or at least whatever they're referring to in this game when a new patch came out. I just never saw it before that. I don't know about the tinyness of it, afterall I'm hit with often enough from day1 onwards. This Dover is apparently so very, very deep in the game I never ran into it. In fact though apparently some won't understand it, the stupid FR, which nobody ever offered me a suggestion to work around, except here now, was so disgusting to me there was no point in even playing beyond the first month. I guess it's debateable whether when you meet a game-ending bug whether it's better to meet one from the start or go quite deep into the game and first meet it. I think if I had found a way to get around the shameful FR, only to run into something else just as bad, or as you say worse, that would be the last straw.
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

Charles
not trying to start a fight, but I think one of the hassles is you don't read what others write, I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

and also, I have said, I do play as the GE, so the non Gerry statement is wrong, I am a better GE player then I am a Allied player, I just play the game more from the Allied side

I have tested it, I have asked questions about it, I have prodded JC about it, I have written pages about how to make it happen and how to avoid it, what it does, and what it doesn't do, what happens inside the game while it is going on

so I think I understand what you are talking about, and have tried to find a fix for you

so lets just keep discussing things, and stop with the insults/smart remarks

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do


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Banquet
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Banquet »

I have BOB and have been looking for BTR for ages but was unable to get a copy. If Matrix can re-make/re-publish it I'd definitely be buying a copy.. great news indeed! [:)]
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Speedysteve »

Hi Banquet.

Yes this is good news all around for the gaming community. A great game will be made even better.

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Farfarer61
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Farfarer61 »

Looking forward to it. I echo the "JCL Rocks" having played through all his great mods.

Far aka "Cdr Dan" from the BTR ezboard
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von Shagmeister
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by von Shagmeister »

Hi Farfarer,

It's good that many of the old crew are still in circulation.

Regards

von Shagmeister
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Speedysteve »

I agree VS. Good to see. BTR forum may have been quiet in recent months but the guys are out there and have heard their calling [;)]

Regards,

Steven
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

HI Cdr Dan, how it going matey

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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by TaggedYa »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

Here is the heart of the contention. It is this “we can’t be sure it’s a bug” attitude that is peeving Charles. Do you really think that a game designer of GGs stature is going to intentionally put in such a routine? Acknowledge it is a bug and then we can discuss how important it is and what the workarounds and drawbacks are. Frankly, you sound like a Microsoft programmer. (I know, that was a really low blow)
ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

NO, you have to make the bug work. If we had to MAKE the bug work we wouldn’t ever see it and wouldn’t give a shit. I retrofitted to 1.03/1.03 today to refresh myself on what once was. The very first raid the very first day got stuck. All I was doing was blasting through a turn to get a save to look at. If the allies use sweeps and the axis uses the intercept you will get freezes. You will not have to work at it.

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do

While I can’t speak for Charles, this is all I am looking for. I want the parameters of the bug hashed out, and any concessions to reducing it that have been made (like reducing endurance on aircraft) cataloged so that it can be squashed with the least effort and no side effects.

And for the record I was unaware that anyone had asked you to do anything.
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

And for the record I was unaware that anyone had asked you to do anything.

this has been going on for a while, here at the matrix fourm

I brought it back to the BTR forums

when it was brought up, and after talking with Charles, I said I would look into it for him and see what I could find out

by the by, just in case, you don't understand, we sent a list of things to Matrix that needs to be looked at/fixed

we included the Freese Ray (in Fact, I included the Freese Ray as needing to be looked into)

other then that, I don't know what else, I/we can do

we can talk about the good things, we can talk about the bad things, we can talk about what we would like to see, and what we would not like to see

but until we hear something from Matrix, we are just beating a dead horse now

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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by steveh11Matrix »

Well I'M drooling... not over BOTR which I bought, played once, then discarded as being far too...well, big. I desperately wanted a Staff to take over most of it.

But BoB is inherently smaller, more easily managed by my poor, simple and tired brain. This one I played a few times before something happened - I forget what, it may have been a bug issue but more likely I just got caught up in something else.

I'd sill like an option for the Staff to take over most of it - and let me take Command where I felt it was needed - but BoB is the title I'm looking forward to out of this pair.

Steve.
"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

Hi Steve
yes, I am drooling too
sorry the post keeps getting side tracked (I tried to get another post going so it could be carried over to there)

to be honest, I really hope the BTR Interface can be ported over to BoB (improved would be better, but updated to at least)

BoB is a little ruff to play once you have mastered BTR

Hmmm, don't know if many people can make that kind of statement

LOL not many people can really say they have WON that game :)
(as Gerry maybe, but few and far between as Allied)

you want BoB, tell you the Truth, I want BoB and BTR and AWoR

(Air War over Russia)

then again, BftM would be fun too

(Battle for the Med)

oh well, guess I go play basketball while I wait
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by steveh11Matrix »

Hey, what I really, really want would be, I guess, WitP moved to the ETO. But that's a little beyond the scope if this discussion...

You say BoB is "a little ruff" after BTR. Care to expand on that that a little?

Steve.
"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

oh sorry
what I mean is with BTR being the 2nd Generation of the game, the UI and other things were improved, but BoB still has the old style UI

say go to the unit page, in BTR, it lists the units kills, in BoB, you got to go to unit page, then go to pilots, to see how many kills the unit has, and then, that is if nobody has been killed that had kills

in BTR you can do sorts, just by clicking on a title, in BoB you have to scroll down the list to find what you need

BTR while being bigger, is also in the long run, easier to play, find out info

so after playing BTR for a long time, it is HARD to go back to BoB and not be able to do what you do with out even thinking about it

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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Charles2222 »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Charles
not trying to start a fight, but I think one of the hassles is you don't read what others write, I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

and also, I have said, I do play as the GE, so the non Gerry statement is wrong, I am a better GE player then I am a Allied player, I just play the game more from the Allied side

I have tested it, I have asked questions about it, I have prodded JC about it, I have written pages about how to make it happen and how to avoid it, what it does, and what it doesn't do, what happens inside the game while it is going on

so I think I understand what you are talking about, and have tried to find a fix for you

so lets just keep discussing things, and stop with the insults/smart remarks

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do



Note: I wrote this as thoughts were progressing. Do not assume that my first thought remained throughout, but I think it better left the way I went through it.

Sorry HS, but I left that forum precisely for the reasons I've seen here (with the exception that someone had 'something' of a workaround here). My comments about the lack of attention to people playing the GE side (their problems, such as FR of course) was more of a general comment to the whole situation. I stayed around that forum long enough to see that there was no solution to the problem, especially since people kept denying it was a problem, which of course there were no proposed solutions for something that kept being denied. And I've seen it on these forums too; same treatment. At least this time somebody came up with some possible workarounds, though they're insufficient. The bug don't go away either, by insultingly blaming it on the user because he happens to want to defend northern airfields.

TaggedYa told me in another thread that he thinks he saw an FR in the south only once, whereas I can't recall any. Why? For one thing because there isn't anything down there worth saving. There's no intercepting down there that can't be done elsewhere, and on top of that all that territory will be lost very quickly. All factors which are the opposite in northern Germany/Belgium. In other words, if the way to get around FR was to pull everything back, I suspect TY did that as I did, but the north is another thing again. If you did that, as surely you must, seeing as how you keep acting like FR is so hard to do, I feel for your game, but, then again, feel even worse for my game, because there's a bug that won't let me play it.

If I hadn't made myself clear, the throw-more-planes-into-the-alleged-melee isn't a workable solution for me. IF it truly works, then the best thing to do is try to intercept as usual, hoping for no FR, and then if one occurs to throw in 1-3 planes to ensure both that your planes get away clean, and also that the enemy doesn't hurt too much either (for 1-3 planes aren't that good). Nice, not bad. Only one problem though, and here's the reason it isn't sufficient, because when I get an FR, I can stop the raid every single time from getting to it's target. There are no such assurances in war.

I see your point now, I think. The FR isn't as much as a bogeyman as it was before, because I can always come up with 1-3 planes to get my guys off (assuming it works), but then there's the other end of the deal about airfield defense assurance. So what you're saying is that Dover and the other bug you mentioned are worse than this (as opposed to an FR with no workable solution, which is where I had been seeing you)? Well maybe, but FR is still junky even if it isn't the worst bug, assuming the workaround works.
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by steveh11Matrix »

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

oh sorry
what I mean is with BTR being the 2nd Generation of the game, the UI and other things were improved, but BoB still has the old style UI

say go to the unit page, in BTR, it lists the units kills, in BoB, you got to go to unit page, then go to pilots, to see how many kills the unit has, and then, that is if nobody has been killed that had kills

in BTR you can do sorts, just by clicking on a title, in BoB you have to scroll down the list to find what you need

BTR while being bigger, is also in the long run, easier to play, find out info

so after playing BTR for a long time, it is HARD to go back to BoB and not be able to do what you do with out even thinking about it

Okay, I'm now officially confused.

The game I have is, clearly, an different version of what you're talking about. The disk is from Talonsoft, is called 'Aces High' and there may or may not be a subtitle. I can't recall, I'm at work and unaccountably my boss gets annoyed when I up and leave to look at a game disk! But the interface is, near enough, identical to BoB. So, was 'Aces High' re-released/enhanced as BTR, or are they actually different games?

Steve.
"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci
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Charles2222
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Charles2222 »

Aces High is a flight simulator, whereas BTR is roughly a strategic turn-based game.
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Hard Sarge
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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

Hi Steve
I think you may have the title wrong, the title of the game is 12 o clock high, bombing the reich

which the way players are, we shorten it, so it becomes BTR

ahh, the interface looks very, very close, but there are differences and improvements to BTR over BoB

say the data page, in BoB, you have a little dot to click on, and it brings up a 3D image and the details on the plane, in BTR you click on the plane name, and it brings up a page with a screen shot of the plane and info on it

ahh, again the data page, in BoB, all the planes are listed together, in BTR they have a Allied and a GE Page

the unit pages, while close, are not the same

I think I can do some cut and pasteing, and will see if that can show you want I mean

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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

Charles, if you took that statement as a Insult, I will say I am sorry, that is not the intent of what I was trying to say, beleive me when I say that was not the intent of the statement

when I say, you casue the bug to happen, I mean you have to plot the intercept, if you pull your planes off of the field you think will be attacked and put them into a patrol, then you can control the angle that they will attack the raid

my fault, as most of the GE players I know from the BTR boards, attack out of the patrol, and do not use the Intercept command from the bases
I assumed you would also, so my comment was if you were to patrol, and attack, you would not get this (of course, if you place the patrol, right in front of the FG, you may get the same thing)

from what I know of the game, I for the most part, would rather let a sweep find the target (as you say of 200 planes)(unless, I got a full gruppen stuck there that can't get up) a large Sweep is going to get ripped apart by the AA, even a small number of guns will tear a large Sweep up

also, you may be very unlucky in your games, the AI for the most part, will send out more fighters with bombs, the fighters in a sweep

but again, I am not working on the game, we do not know if Matrix is going to work the game, rework the game, or let it die

so until we do, this is just beating a dead horse

it is a shame you feel that way about our board, you may of been there at the wrong time, we have a very strong GE player base there

and again, the beta testers from JC's OOB sent a list and details of all the known bugs, hassles and complaints that we knew of to Matrix, so they would have something to work on, if they decide to work on it, and we did include your complaints(and others) about the Freese Ray

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RE: Now I'm drooling...

Post by Hard Sarge »

Hi Steve
here are some combined snaps, hopefully it will show a little of what I mean

this should show the unit page of JG I/54 from BoB and the unit page of 356th FG in BTR

not much difference, but you will see some





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