Don't be Hatin'- Constructive criticism....

[akileez]

First off- I love this game-strategic-wise to me it's near flawless as is the German side AI.[:'(]
But here are my petty quips, more at a tactical level that I hope can be improved upon in any future updates;

1. I've played many, many hours as Allies in all the the airborne bridge-grabbing missions and have yet to see primed bridges blow-up. Please, increase the chances of bridges blasted sky high just as Airborne companies come charging up to them [X(] . I find the predictabilty of primed bridges not blowing up kind of dulls the spontanaiety of Airlanding battles. Which leads me to my next 'gripe'....

edit; it's odd! I now see in this thread link of a player's posted battle screenshots the Nijmegen bridge got blown up!!!
tm.asp?m=925413
So is there a difference in percentages for bridges to blow up depending on the side you play, or level of difficulty?

2.Contrary to what I read I should be seeing happening using bridge construction units, I see no 'hours-to-go' display when I've assigned bridge construction orders and I am doing so far from any other bridges on waterways! Is this a glitch with the latest update? [&:]

3.Airstrikes are fair in results when blasting infantry targets, but I find NO lethality in an airstrike's killing of combat power when targets are artillery and armour IN THE OPEN! I think airstrikes are rare enough that a player can enjoy seeing such targets near enough obliterated and instantly routed as a very realistic facet to the gameplay. I'd suggest, regardless of the targets strength, an airstrike would consist of enough aircraft to take out at least half of that targets troop/equipment effectiveness automatically. [:-]

4.The famous north end of Arnhem Bridge, aka- the 'ramp'. Why is there blue water depiction there, if anything, that terrain should have a slope colour feature instead.. [8|]

5.On the review display at the end of battles, you have the 'victory/loss' red stamp angled in a way that it covers the typeface of the letter. I believe there's enough empty space on the letter to adequately fit the stamp for a cleaner cosmetic appearance.[8|]

6. Not a gripe, but please,please tell me where the music score originated/composer info etc., for the game.It's quite impressive. [&o]

7. The radio game set-up screen.... Any chance of having more verbal dialogue snips more pronounced, rather than the feint 'rule britannia' . ie, remember in the movie 'a Bridge Too Far', the Brit on the radio in Arnhem repeats over and over "Come in 30 Corps! 30 Corps are you there? over." Something dramatic along those lines. Or, hehee something like the German Radio signalers breaking into the Allied frequency saying, "we're coming to get you Tommy!" [8D]

Well those are my list of improvements I think sgould be possible to work on in a future update. I hope I didn't put anyone off because I really love the game and its play experience [&o], but the lack of blown bridges and airstrike lethality is very underplayed in my opinion.[:(]

[akileez]

Forgot one more thing, high calibre AT gun units don't immediately crucify close range light/medium armoured units caught in the open, as proposed in the rules book's rate of attrition of such targets in such conditions.
[8|]

[MarkShot]

I've seen all three possibilities:

(1) Bridge blown.

If it happens, there is a special in game sound and you'll get a message.

(2) Bridge attempted to be blown, but failed.

If it happens, it will go from pink to white. There is no message. But you can be sure of this as opposed to it was your secure crossing task removing the demo charges by watching the primed status bar. If it instantly goes from full primed to full unprimed, then it was a failed attempt.

(3) Bridge taken and still primed.

Self explanatory.

---

Perhaps, you are just good at taking bridges. If you use plenty of bombard commands in the area of the bridge and aggressive assaults, then you will usually end up with situation #2 or #3. Supression and maximum violence is the key to taking bridges.

If you want to see a bridge blow, then try removing arty and mortars from your force (and have any other such units rest). Then, attempt a weak probe at the bridge.

[MarkShot]

Ah, since I didn't put in any smiles.

Your feedback is, of course, welcome by the developers and testers.

Glad you are enjoying the game.

[akileez]

Hey, thanks for the fast reply!
I'd like to think no matter how fast a bridge can be grabbed there's a fair chance of it blowing [that's just me I suppose- liking unpredictable events occuring and readapting strategies accordingly on the fly].
Can you give any advice on bridge construction? Although I'm grabbing all primed bridges I see successfully, I do try bridge making far off from bridges but although I see the bridging icon on the constructing units I see no indication of a bridge being made either on the map or in the player interface views/orders section.
Thanks again

[MarkShot]

Place a construct bridge order next (I think within 0.5km to a severed crossing) with units that show bridge building capacity in their equipment list. The more such units assigned, the faster it will happen. Click on the bridge icon and you should see a progress meter.

From my limited experience, it is much faster capturing bridges than trying to build them.

As a final note, your forces will not automatically know of the planned bridge or completed bridge. Thus, any units you want to use the bridge will need fresh orders or be forced to replan their route.

[akileez]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Ah, since I didn't put in any smiles.

Your feedback is, of course, welcome by the developers and testers.

Glad you are enjoying the game.

Yes! I dreamt of getting the game for the last 2 years since trying the free demo, then I found it in ebay and getting it finally [for my own birthday [8|] ]blew me away.
Sorry about my pickiness - but I'm glad to hear it could assist game developers in any future updates or similar games. I find the reading on Operation Market Garden captivating and the game's overall strategic realism delightfully realistically similar to how operations were carried out or could alternatively be.

Here's another suggestion/personal outline of how I do an entire campaign [as Allies].

Start with Eindhoven Historical campaign - game options neutral. If I'm very successful, I go onto the 101st campaign again with neutral options. However, a marginal Eindhoven vicory will have options favouring the Germans ie, reinforcements-supply.
If in the 101st campaign things are decisive, I go onto the Nijmegen campaign with neutral options, and if things went bad/marginal, then options again are set to favour Germans. I repeat this for the following/final campaign-Arnhem. Hasn't happened yet but if 30 Corps never gets out of Nijmegen, I'd play the Brit Paras in Arnhem fighting without 30 Corps armour appearing somehow [perhaps keep 30 Corps reinforcements on their start line//and-or just use any 30 Corps armour that get over the Nijmegen bridges in that prior battle] and make their objective to retreat to Elst as a somewhat cohesive fighting force.

Thanks.

ps, taking a break from playing for now to catchup on social necessities I neglected by playing 2 entire Operations already in the last few months since getting HTTR. But will peek in this forum often.[:D]

[akileez]

Place a construct bridge order next (I think within 0.5km to a severed crossing)

Ahaaaa... that's it!!!

I had no severed bridges to begin with.
THANKS my friend! One mystery down [&o]

[Arjuna]

akileeze,

Thanks for your feedback.

3.Airstrikes are fair in results when blasting infantry targets, but I find NO lethality in an airstrike's killing of combat power when targets are artillery and armour IN THE OPEN! I think airstrikes are rare enough that a player can enjoy seeing such targets near enough obliterated and instantly routed as a very realistic facet to the gameplay. I'd suggest, regardless of the targets strength, an airstrike would consist of enough aircraft to take out at least half of that targets troop/equipment effectiveness automatically.

Airstrikes in HTTR represent only a small flight of aircraft ( 6-8 ftr bmrs ). Airstrikes by ftr bmrs were notoriously ineffective at killing medium tanks let alone heavies like Tigers. What they were good at though was scaring the daylights out of the tank crews, with many fleeing their AFVs and not returning until well after the threat of a strike had dissappeared. Typical reports indicate that a column of tanks struck would scatter and not start moving again in the intended direction for 30 to 60 minutes. I think we're pretty close to reality right now.

4.The famous north end of Arnhem Bridge, aka- the 'ramp'. Why is there blue water depiction there, if anything, that terrain should have a slope colour feature instead..

That was a small lake that formed a feature between the industrial part of town and the city itself along which the road ran. There are some accounts that it was largely dry at the time of the battle. So there may be some merit in making this a gully, but a lake is what the maps said and so that is what we put in. Feel free to edit your map in the MapMaker if that will rock your boat. [:)]

6. Not a gripe, but please,please tell me where the music score originated/composer info etc., for the game.It's quite impressive.

Matrix provided this first class peice of movie making. IIRC it was a colleague of Marc Schwanebeck. Hopefully Marc can respond.

7. The radio game set-up screen.... Any chance of having more verbal dialogue snips more pronounced, rather than the feint 'rule britannia' . ie, remember in the movie 'a Bridge Too Far', the Brit on the radio in Arnhem repeats over and over "Come in 30 Corps! 30 Corps are you there? over." Something dramatic along those lines. Or, hehee something like the German Radio signalers breaking into the Allied frequency saying, "we're coming to get you Tommy!"

Actually there are five or six sound clips that play at the startup. Just listen long enough. They are played at random.

[akileez]

Airstrikes in HTTR represent only a small flight of aircraft ( 6-8 ftr bmrs ).

Yes, I see that's a fair enough point [However, would German crews not in a King ll Tiger tank think 8 'jabos' overhead was a small flight [:D]]. Perhaps though, reduced strength medium armour units as well as armoured car/half-track units could sustain significant damage[a bit of realism with player gratification'candy'].

Feel free to edit your map in the MapMaker if that will rock your boat. [:)]

I suppose I should get round to that new venture once I catch up on my need-to-do real life stuff I missed by playing HTTR so much [8|]

Hopefully Marc can respond.

I hope he does! Hopefully he goes as far as to making a sticky thread with such info also.

Actually there are five or six sound clips that play at the startup. Just listen long enough. They are played at random.

Unfortunately, [I'm sure I'm not alone on this] I'm off that options screen in about 15 seconds to realise there are more goody clips coming up. Possibly a shuffle of the more intriguing clips at the start to keep one's attention on that screen just for the sake of enjoying the remaining clips.

Once again, thanks for the fast reply - not only is the HTTR game experience wonderful, but so is the game's staff too [:D]
ps. Is in-game music a feasible option? ie. an alternation between brit/germ/U.S war-ish scores in the background during play.

[James Sterrett]

"Perhaps though, reduced strength medium armour units as well as armoured car/half-track units could sustain significant damage...."

It wouldn't increase the realism. [:)]

See: Ian Gooderson, [Air Power at the Battlefront]

Among other things, he delved into the operations research results from studies of airstrikes in Western Europe . CAS produced a lot of fear and disruption to the crews, but very little damage to vehicles. What I've seen of Soviet WW2 operations research on airstrike effectiveness came to similar conclusions.

[Arjuna]

Thanks James. I couldn't remember the specific studies we read back in 1996 when we came to the same conclusions.[:)]

[mdw]

ORIGINAL: akileez

6. Not a gripe, but please,please tell me where the music score originated/composer info etc., for the game.It's quite impressive. [&o]

Forgive me please, but this IS sarcasm. right?

The version I downloaded and installed has NO MUSIC WHATSOEVER!

I was rather shocked and somewhat put off to the point that I really didn't take a serious interest in even trying to play the game until it had been sitting around for a couple of weeks.

While the game itself is fantastic, the complete lack of a musical score as background in a supposedly finished and ready for sale product makes the entire product appear rather amatuerish.

[JJKettunen]

ORIGINAL: mdw

While the game itself is fantastic, the complete lack of a musical score as background in a supposedly finished and ready for sale product makes the entire product appear rather amatuerish.

This must be sarcasm too, right?

[Trigger Happy]

Bring a radio in the same room as the computer, that solves about everything music related...

[mdw]

ORIGINAL: Trigger Happy

Bring a radio in the same room as the computer, that solves about everything music related...

Actually, ripping a few classical music CDs to the hard drive more than copmpensated for the lack of music, especially since the game can be minimized to allow me to replay the selections when they are finished.

However, that simple solution doesn't alter the fact that selling a computer game with no background music is about as amatuerish as it gets! Matrix certainly hasn't done that with any of their other fine games I am currently playing.

I sure hope they don't make such a serious blunder with the coming rework of the old Talon Soft games.

[Trigger Happy]

I also like to listen to some music while I play. But unless it's svyashchenaya voynna (the sacred war), the repetitiveness really gets on my nerves. Maybe a trigger process like when there's a level of intensity reached, Mozart get in, or when an objective is attained, etc., that would raise the drama level up a notch.
But seriously, this is royally "à-côté" of the development of this kind of game.

And I hate german martial music!

[Arjuna]

mdw,

While I appreciate that you would like to have background music to the game most surveys on this point indicate that vast majority of players turn it off after the first run through, instead preferring their own selection of music. So we see little mileage in it. Instead we would rather devote our energy and limited resources to providing the most realistic and professional operational level wargame possible.

Check this out: Audio signals in wargames

[mdw]

I AM quite impressed with the game as a whole.

Someone asked somewhere on this forum why the gaming community hasn't embraced this game more enthusiastically and you might just want to consider the possible impact of your decision on this issue.

I actually turned the game off and didn't even make an effort to learn it once I realized it completely lacked any music to fill the background. It sat for two solid weeks before I decided to make an effort to look past this "shortcoming" and actually give the game a try. How many other potential players do you think maight have been turned off in a similar way?

Once I did make the effort to get past what I saw as a serious shortcoming, I discovered you have created a fantastic wargame.

I am close to completing my first non-tutorial scenario. I decided to start with the historical Nijmegen campaign with improved Allied reinforcements so the 325th Glider Regiment arrived on the 3rd day instead of the 5th day. The part of the game I find most enthralling is the realistic orders delay. In the Nijmegen tutorial scenario, the German forces sortied south out of Nijmegen and met the advancing 325th before it arrived in St. Anna. In the campaign scenario, all was quiet in this sector. As the divisional commader, I got impatient with seeing the first batallion of the 508th sitting on their butts in a quit sector and I decided to send them into Nijmegen in an attempt at a coup-d'main on the bridges. Boy, oh boy, was that ever a mistake. They marched right into a meat grinder. I decided to employ a cheap gamers trick and go back to a prior saved game and chalk the results of my error in judgement up to a learning experience. To my chagrin, the last saved game had the 1/508 already inside the outskirts of the city. By the time they had processed the new orders to fall back, they had already advanced into the meat grinder and took 50% casualties before making it back out of the city. Several hundred paratroppers lost their lives because theri commander got impatient and overly aggressive.

The difference between this real time game with orders delays and a turn based game where such factors cannot be accurately represented is like night and day!

I hope I didn't make a bad impression by making my first post a "gripe". I truly am enjoying the game.

[Arjuna]

mdw,

Good to hear. Enjoy.[:)]