A concerned war gamer

[Harrybanana]

OK time for my 2 cents; even though I won't be saying anything new to what I've said in other threads. I think 2By3 is doing a good job of dealing with the so called "gamey" tactics, each new patch is trying to address these, but it is true that people will disagree on what is "gamey" and what is alternate history.

I agree with Forwarn that it would be an improvement if units could not invade/attack and then strategic move out, but this may not be easy to fix.

My biggest concern (as I've said before) is with the Victory Conditions. What I feared would happen is happening. The Allies tend to win more games than the Axis because unless the Axis win the AV Victory it is almost impossible to hold out until F46 to win a Marginal Victory or even a Draw. IMHO opinion this should have not have been corrected by weakening the Allies but instead have been corrected by changing the end game Victory Conditions. Instead the latest patch does in fact handicap the Allies some more. The WA loses 3 transports and has it amphibious transport capacity reduced by 50% (surprisingly the German amphib capacity remains unchanged). As well there is some tweaking to the US industrial multiplier. I have no doubt that these and other changes will help to balance the game in the sense that it will now be easier for the Axis to win an AV Victory, so that the Axis may well now win 1/2 the games (or more). But they do nothing to make the game more "historical".

[aletoledo]

I have no doubt that these and other changes will help to balance the game in the sense that it will now be easier for the Axis to win an AV Victory, so that the Axis may well now win 1/2 the games (or more). But they do nothing to make the game more "historical".

i agree. the first thing I did after the patch was look at the german transport. I was (pleasantly) surprised to see tyhe germans with a higher level.

I'm sure this will help even things out a lot, but it moves the game further away from historical. reducing and freezing the transports probably would of been enough to help and still maintain history..

[JanSorensen]

I am not at all a historian - but I think something to consider is that transporters represent both merchant shipping AND landing crafts (as they may be in 1940).

So, while the WA obviously have greater invasion capability in total - they also had alot more merchants. As such I am willing to consider that the proportion of landing craft to merchants could be lower for the English than the Germans.

As I said - I dont know if thats true or not - but its something to consider.

[Wise01]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana


I agree with Forwarn that it would be an improvement if units could not invade/attack and then strategic move out, but this may not be easy to fix.

That would be realy great!

Units which attacked enemy ones or got shot by enemys are not allowed to strategically flee.
With this new game rule it is still possibly to grab more than one enemy territory with one unit, but when combat with enemy unit occured the invading unit has to rest afterwards.
This should effectivly stop some "gamey" invasions/raidings and removing all units afterwards.
If you decide to invade you have to stay there! (at least for one turn if invading units survive) [;)]

[mcaryf]

The Germans did not really have any purpose built landing craft, however, they started to assemble large numbers of Rhine barges to be towed across the Channel. These were variously attacked by the British with relatively ineffective bombing and bombardment raids. The failure to win the Battle of Britain was what stopped the cross channel movement. Thereafter the barges went back to being river transports. Thus it is not unhistoric for the Germans to have a cross channel capability but realistically it should be a temporary thing not a permanent threat as it took a lot of effort to assemble it and the British certainly knew it was being prepared. Thus creating it and being able to disband it again would not be a bad solution.

The Japanese situation was quite different and should be handled in a special way. They actually pioneered the use of specialist landing craft and the Allies took ideas from them. However, the Japanese forces involved were relatively small with Regimental (3,000 men) or smaller units conducting the actual invasions. I am currently developing a mod to simulate reality rather more closely in a number of key areas that help the Axis forces. One of my changes is to treat the Japanese Militia unit as actually a small elite landing force and reduce its need for transport capacity to 2 (as well as reducing its attack capability) but to provide Japan with rather more of them. This facilitates Japan capturing many small islands without giving her too much extra strength. The previous "game" solution of giving Japanese ships an amphibious capacity of 5 was not at all in line with history - another solution might be to allow the normal transport capacity to be used for unopposed landings.

Mike

[Fallshirmjager]

The only way i think in which to solve the super soldiers or any super unit is in the way their created in the first place. the current method of the tech table is just a way to lump all the units getting researched in one form rather than how it should be. What i dont understand is that certaion units cannot be built in certain contries, yet those same units can be researched IE research points can be produced to up the units attributes in those countries where the ubit itself cant be built.that is where the problem lies. if units were only able to be researched where they are produced it would make a more realistic game making it harder to get the super soldiers. But on the other hand you would also have to allow for the building of troops in conquered countries then also. the waffen ss recruited many foreign volunteers from denmark, norway, finland, sweden (wiking division) and france. one of hitlers biggest mistakes and the downfall of nazism was its racism. if hitler would have recruited the anti-bolshevik ukrainians, belorussians, estonians, latvians, lithuanians he would have 4 million additional troops instead he chose to waste em thru the totenkopf and pointless slave labor.
what i suggest is something along the lines as the system used in medieval total war to up techs and build units.
ie a sub can only be built in e/w germ. and italy so accordingly can only be researched their. to me it doesnt make sense to be able to buy research or research U-571 in kiev. i dont think doenitz wouldve moved the labs to the ukraine.
also then if the game is to offer an alternate timeline i believe the building of militia or infantry should also be allowed in axis or allied conquered countries. hitler and heydrich mighta ordered the killings of the sub-humensch but id recruit if i was at the helm.
also it would be good if italy and rumania had their own identities and icons with their own units that had their own individual attributes. why should militia which can never be researched be allowed only to be built in these countires. were the italians and rumanians the lesser of the troops that came from india. which by the way were mostly comprised of the native peoples of that area. there are the nations flags on the production table why not have the research available also on that nations table?
would it be difficult to ammend this and set up a new production research method say in a world at war 2.
i may be wrong here but i dont recall any new zealanders, aussies or indian regiments hitting the beaches at dieppe it was the brits and canadians. to allow the wallies to build equal units in the uk canada the US and australia is the reason for the allied edge.

[mcaryf]

Just a small comment on New Zealanders and Aussies - the standard game way overstates the numbers of infantry available from these countries. Their starting forces are way too high as a GGWAW unit represents around 6 inf/militia Divisions and there just were not that many Anzacs so there should be no NZ unit (sorry guys) and probably only 1 Aussie in the starting forces.

Mike

[Fallshirmjager]

hey guys, it was just a thought but if anything is gonna get changed if theirs an expansion it would be cool to see this-

1. that germany is able to produce infantry in italy and rumania (that are not german troops but italian and rumanian and have a different icon) there stats would be lower something like chinas or russias inf.
2. units that are researched have to be researched where they are built. it kind of limits a nations ability to up stats bigtime.
e.g. japan could not use the 3 p.pts in manchuria to research a zero being built in honshu but would have to use a research pt. in honshu or where ever a zero can be built. Like wise with the panzers where ever their built they can only be researched where they are built type deal.
3. units can be repaired in foreign countries where units were repaired historically. there was 1,149 major U-boat overhauls in the French bases during the war, 492 were carried out in the Lorient dockyard. so german subs should be able to get repaired and researched in western france.
4. some type of valor rating like medieval total war, every couple of battles they survive they get a +1 to their attack/defensive rolls. so if a unit survived without being destroyed theyd be pretty formidable, makes more sense than you could discern from which troops are the elite and which ones are not.
Sil you said some canadian units only had 6 weeks training yet units in the game dont ever see combat and their super soldiers. It would kind of make the game more challenging to not be able to just tech your troops with research points from rumania when you cant even build troops there. or tech cags and subs in the mid west or india.
i dotn know but a valor rating would be cool it could be another figure under the movement figure on the units icon.
hyper bobs right. it blows goats that your fallschirmjagers defending the gothic line get crushed by 8/8 yanks who havent seen combat.
limiting where the research points come from and adding a valor system, would mimic what really happened and happens in real life. the yanks that hit the beache sin normandy werent as seasoned as the german troops they were going to face come the battle of the bulge. lookit operation market garden. and dieppe also. the wallies had their super troopers the d-day dodgers they were fightin in italy, africa way before overlord.

[silodhlehan]

Yeah I did this as the Japanese in the dutch east indies and took out like 4 places with 1 infantry.
[:)]

To fix just make the first unit fire a shot if there was no combat, That way when I send 2 light fleets againts transports they wouldn't get burned and not chase the little critters across the ocean if they don't fight.