Finally, a plan - GRAYCOMPANY DONT READ

[niceguy2005]

GRAYCOMPANY, DONT READ THIS. IT IS GOING TO TAKE ALL THE FUN OUT OF THE GAME.





It is about mid-January 42 in my large PBEM game and I am the allies. Since the day that those on this forum talked me out of trying to defend Rabaul I have been searching for a plan for the allies. I have been following conventional strategy, which means playing very conservative. My opponent is advancing on all fronts and things seem to be going about normal.

1. Burma has essentially fallen, without much of a fight, most of the troops have run to India.
2. The siege at Bataan has just begun in earnest. I am well supplied and think I can hold out for a while.
3. Borneo has mostly fallen. Java and Sumatra are in tact. Kendari has fallen and Ambonia (sp?) has fallen.
4. He is advancing rapidly through the Solomons, not much I can do about that right now. Note, I have the LCU to force a fight at Munda, or Guadal Canal, but not the supplies to make it effective. Very frustrating.
5. I have a couple of strong points established in the Central Pacific and one building up in the South Pacific.

Enough background, here's the rough plan at this point. Rather than island hop through the central and south pacific, because I find it a total pain in the butt. I will make a strong defensive stand in the South Pacific to the extent necessary to protect the supply lines to OZ. My first real offensive will be from India to battle it out for control over Burma. My hope would be to begin offensive missions as early as March, April or May of 42, but probably won't be in full swing until late 42, depending on what my opponent does. Early missions might be to win back some ground given up, like Akyab, with later missions to reopen the Burma road and take back Mandaly and Rangoon. Emphasis will be on establishing air superiority and heavy use of land based bombers to cover LCU advance.

The US role will be to keep the supply lines open, build up and menace the Central Pacific, without actaully taking much offensive action until very late 43 or 44. Australia will defend itself with a little help from the US and also help by menacing the Solomons, NG and Timor, keeping the Japanese engaged there. China will just try and hold on as long as possible. I may send additional air support there if available - it seems that China is a great place to engage the Japanese because it has the potential to eat up so many resources.

Advantage
1. It is mostly a land based war so it minimizes the IJN early war superiority.
2. My forces in India are strong compared with elsewhere.
3. The Japanese player needs the resources in Burma and will likely commit a lot to keep it.
4. It opens the supply quicker to China, making China more of a threat.
5. May be a big surprise to my opponent.

Disadvantage
1. It requires moving American air to India, which is tough.
2. All around logistically more complicated, it may be hard to stick with the rough time table mentioned above.
3. Weakens forces in Central and South pacific, making it harder to defend
4. Will requires a lot of additional American bombers (mostly B-25 and B-26 I am thinking).

What I want to know what others think of the possible success of an early offensive in Burma? Has anyone tried making this the main theater of operation? Holes in my plan?

[Speedysteve]

Hi,

In one of my PBEM's i'm on the offensive as the Allies in Burma in 10/42 due to necessity not choice. It's risky very risky.

LCU (you'll have a fair bit by 10/42 for example) wise it's not a major concern but the problem is air power. You'll need your US boys to have fighters with range (until P38's come online). The Japs can bring in loads of air to Burma if he detects a major push here and depending on your house rules. LCU's could be purchased from China/Kwantung/Japan to reinforce Burma.

In short IMO its a bit soon to be on the offensive unless necessity demands it.

Would be different though [:)]

[Milman]

Did you recon hes forces in Burma and Malaya ? Which units he have there ?

[Yamato hugger]

Well, if I may be the voice of reason for a moment [:D]

In Jan 42, you shouldnt be thinking about attacking. You have nothing to attack with. Allies get tons of engineers and it doesnt take long to expand bases to suit your needs later.

What you should be thinking about in Jan 42 is how not to lose the war.

[jwilkerson]

Well first not sure we kibitzers should get too detailed in analysis of others strategy - after all one of the fun things about the game is watching your own strategy crash and burn around you [:D]


But a few general comments ( from one one has only played Japanese thus far - in approaching 2400 PBEM turns - well may 100 of them were Allied ).

CBI is a good place for Allies to engage, because supply line is fairly heafty and secure and there can be plenty of mutually supporting airbases - and you can - if successful - get close enough to threaten SRA resources, HI in SEA without too much trouble. So if I am Japanese I fear early counterattack in this sector. Also I'd suggest basing the ground part of the offensive in burma in land, rather than along the coast. The IJN can more easily intervene ( with bombardments ) along the coast.

But I would warn against remaining too inactive across the rest of the map. While it might look hopeless to you at this point - the tide changes pretty dramatically ( see for example the GH MC AAR ) by the end of 1942. So no need to wait until late 1943 to attack elsewhere. Further it is important to engage across as broad a front as possible as the Allies. The Japanese can remain competitive in a narrow front war for much longer - but they cannot do so across a broad front.

But having early counter thrust in Burma makes perfect sense to me - and one of my opponents has done that - so I've seen it done.

[cassius44]

My thoughts...

Land combat in Burma is very tough for the Allies. If you send your troops down the trail network while the Japs sit in the cities/on the rail network, you will not get anywhere. The Japs will have the advantage of having forces in good health, good supply lines, and can rotate them in and out of Rangoon to recover. Your troops will take forever to move up and back, etc. Generally fruitless. (Just like RL - remember the Allies were still fighting in outside Kohima when D-Day took place!)

However, Aykab is a valid target as the limitations of the trail network holds there for both sides. It is close to Chandpur/Dacca, so you can pound away with huge air forces at it. And Aykab makes a good base to knock out oil/resources, etc.

But after that, the key is to unhinge the whole Burma line by an amphibious landing south of Rangoon - and this you won't be able to do for a while.

I would fight for Aykab and - after mid-42 - Andaman and Nicobar. Otherwise, just keep your forces in reserve. Or... airlift them to China. Having a couple of the RAF HQ in China seems to help a lot with the air war there IMO.

Good luck!

[niceguy2005]

Its only Jan 42, so what he will have there in May 42 is anybody's guess.

However, right now he has the 55th and the Imperial Gd Divs, plus two tank battalions and one paratroop unit.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, if I may be the voice of reason for a moment [:D]

In Jan 42, you shouldnt be thinking about attacking. You have nothing to attack with. Allies get tons of engineers and it doesnt take long to expand bases to suit your needs later.

What you should be thinking about in Jan 42 is how not to lose the war.

Agreed, 1/42 is WAY too early to engage in an offensive, but if I want to attack Burma anywhere between 5/42 and 8/42 with US support I need to act now. THat means I scale down my build up (a little, not a lot) in the Central Pacific and send some of those resources to India now, in particular while Java still stands and I can fly in heavy bombers there and while the route behind (South) Java is still open for shipping.

I know that Japan is still going to be aggresively attacking for the next few months. Outside of the usual losses here are the other locations I am writing off:
1. Port Morsby - I bet he attacks it by 2/42.
2. Canton Island - It may be attacked by the end of 1/42.
3. Luganville - not really written off, but doubtful I can hold it.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: cassius44

My thoughts...

Land combat in Burma is very tough for the Allies. If you send your troops down the trail network while the Japs sit in the cities/on the rail network, you will not get anywhere. The Japs will have the advantage of having forces in good health, good supply lines, and can rotate them in and out of Rangoon to recover. Your troops will take forever to move up and back, etc. Generally fruitless. (Just like RL - remember the Allies were still fighting in outside Kohima when D-Day took place!)

However, Aykab is a valid target as the limitations of the trail network holds there for both sides. It is close to Chandpur/Dacca, so you can pound away with huge air forces at it. And Aykab makes a good base to knock out oil/resources, etc.

But after that, the key is to unhinge the whole Burma line by an amphibious landing south of Rangoon - and this you won't be able to do for a while.

I would fight for Aykab and - after mid-42 - Andaman and Nicobar. Otherwise, just keep your forces in reserve. Or... airlift them to China. Having a couple of the RAF HQ in China seems to help a lot with the air war there IMO.

Good luck!

Good analysis.

Here would be the rough plan of attack
Phase I - Air war. Must establish a strong air power precense in the area. This will be tough enough, if not impossible. In need enough air power to dominate for a very short amount of time. I'm looking for advise on how to do this, like what fighters to ship there from the US. I am thinking about P-39s since I think I will be facing more Nate's and Oscars than zeros, I would think.
Phase II - Grab some strategic bases if possible to improve air power presence. This means Adaman and Akyab, if possible.
Phase III - Overwhelming ground assualt - attack from all sides at once. My concept at the moment is to move a moderate size force down the trails from Impahl to Mandalay. Not an overwhelming force, but enough to get his attention, maybe a couple of Indian rifle divisions and some engineers and artilery. At the same time, another force of Chinese divisions will move from Yenen to threaten Myth...whatever you call that base. Hopefully this will make him think this is the main assualt. The real assualt will be boarding ships in Madras for a suprise invasion of Rangoon. The crossing from Madras to Rangoon is not long, so with luck, he might not know its coming until it is one day away.

Who knows what will really happen, but its a thought.

[Arstavidios]

Hi, if you can send the fighter squadrons from thePhilipines to India with the AVG it will make you 10 P40 squadrons. You may downagrade West coast groups to get extra replacements. The brits have a bunch of good fighters but they have short legs. They are good to defend your bases while the P40s can carry offensive missions.

Transport all the chinese divisions you can to India. The Chinese have 600 infantry replacement squads a month and they can sustain heavy operations while the brits have plenty of artillery.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Arstavidios

Hi, if you can send the fighter squadrons from thePhilipines to India with the AVG it will make you 10 P40 squadrons. You may downagrade West coast groups to get extra replacements. The brits have a bunch of good fighters but they have short legs. They are good to defend your bases while the P40s can carry offensive missions.

There are only two P-40 units in PI and the AVG. How does that make 10? [&:]
I just counted all my fighter squadrons and right now, I count 8 p-40B & E units in the entire war and I can't leave PH, South Pacific and Australia to defend. I think I am going to need more than that - I'm planning on a Battle of Brittian scale air war. Plus, I really don't want to pull the AVG out of China, where it is right now. I need them there to keep my opponent honest. Last turn they just shot down 15 Sallys. [;)]

[Arstavidios]

You have two 72 planes groups of 3 squadrons each, one in the philipines and theAVG that starts in Burma. There are also 4 squadrons in the Philipines. Two squadrons start with p40s and the other two have start with P26 and P35. That makes for 10 squadrons in total. You'll need all your P40 replacements to refit them so it may be a good idea to keep your other P40 units in backwater areas. You have 20 P36 5 P26 and 5 P35 a month. You can use the to downgrade P40 units to get extra replacements.[;)]

[niceguy2005]

Gotcha. I thouhgt you were referring to units, not squadrons. My bad.

I do plan on down grading some WC squadrons later. Right now Im saving up for the show down at Java. I have a couple surprises for my opponent there. Should be good.

[Arstavidios]

Spitfires can be great in China once you get them. In a PBEM I played from May to October 3 squadrons shot down over 200 aircraft including somezeros while losing less than 10 of their own. They are my most effective fighters so far. I haven't tried the P38s yet as my opponent has currently faded away due to real life trouble and I'm not sure that game will take off again.

[Milman]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005


Phase III - Overwhelming ground assualt - attack from all sides at once. My concept at the moment is to move a moderate size force down the trails from Impahl to Mandalay. Not an overwhelming force, but enough to get his attention, maybe a couple of Indian rifle divisions and some engineers and artilery. At the same time, another force of Chinese divisions will move from Yenen to threaten Myth...whatever you call that base. Hopefully this will make him think this is the main assualt. The real assualt will be boarding ships in Madras for a suprise invasion of Rangoon. The crossing from Madras to Rangoon is not long, so with luck, he might not know its coming until it is one day away.

When you send your forces from Imphal to Mandaly . He will see your movement and he will send hes units from malaya & other places in south west asia . They will be near Rangoon when your invasion fleet comes there . That is why you need to recon hes forces south of Rangoon . Or you can start to write where are hes units when you get report about them in your intel report .

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Milman

When you send your forces from Imphal to Mandaly . He will see your movement and he will send hes units from malaya & other places in south west asia . They will be near Rangoon when your invasion fleet comes there . That is why you need to recon hes forces south of Rangoon . Or you can start to write where are hes units when you get report about them in your intel report .

I am counting on him seeing my forces from Impahl. He may send reinforcements from Malaya, we'll have to see. Plans are always subject to change. Maybe I can land south of Rangoon and cut him off. At the moment I am thinking of sending at least one US Div and one RCT to reinforce the Brittish.

[BlackVoid]

The weakness of the plan IMHO is your (dis)ability to reinforce your airforce in Burma.

Japan can very easily transfer most of its LBA to the theater, while you cannot react to this in time. Once you are there, you are locked in India - tough to withdraw and attack elsewhere. If you cannot attack the Malaysian peninsula, or at least threaten it, then your plan failed. So an amphib landing there is a must for which you need the US carriers. This leaves your very long supply lines exposed. You also have to worry about a major Japanese force landing in your back - you cannot prevent this without the US carriers.

[Jim D Burns]

As the allies it is suicide to engage in heavy fighting in Burma in 1942. Japans Navy can decimate anything you may have and an intact KB guarantees he can land anywhere in India he pleases. You should be thinking defense until you’ve safely garrisoned all of your Indian ports and built up a mobile reserve.

If he sees you committing large forces to Burma, he can simply land in Madras, Chandpur, etc. and isolate everything you have in Burma in rapid order. Burma is a quagmire and deploying to or from it takes months with good order bases in your backfield. Let the enemy get in your rear and you can write off everything you sent to Burma.

In my game it is late July 1942 and Japan has taken Midway, Port Moresby and the SRA. He is just now launching an attack into Mandalay and has well over 200,000 troops total detected in all of Burma.

I have a good chance to stop him due to my entrenchment levels, but I did not commit anything to Burma other than what starts there and the 9 Chinese divisions that went there historically. Had I committed more, I suspect those 200k troops would be marching somewhere in India right now instead of Burma.

I have a minimum of a brigade at every Indian Port and several divisions set for fast reactions throughout the country. I have also garrisoned every base within Japanese transport ranges of his Burmese bases to guard against paradrops. I evacuated many brigade cadres from Malaya to be able to achieve this level of garrison.

So at this point I feel secure and have just now begun to build up a counter-attack force starting with the three Chindit Brigades. But it will be another 6 months before I feel I have an extra force large enough to launch a successful counter-attack into Burma.

So my advise is not to be over aggressive, it can cost you since there really is nothing you can do to stop an end around move as long as KB is untouchable. Secure what you already have first!

Jim