AAR - Savanniperkele vs Pyguinard

[pyguinard]

I finally accepted Savanniperkele's chalenge to show him how difficult it was for the Russians to win a 1941 Campaign in a game of WiR version 3.3. See the other thread for house rules)

---

On the morning of June 22nd, hostilities began between the Red Army and the mighty Wermacht. During the first week, the Soviets were totally helpless and could not prevent the Germans from capturing their primary objectives. The 24th Pz Korps with help from its submersible Pz units was able to cross the Bug River and rushed eastwards to overrun Popov's Western Front HQ. Hundreds of planed were captured.

The railroad junction of Brest-Litovsk was considered as a crucial element of a succesfull blitzkrieg and it had to be captured on the first week of operations. The task was assigned to the 4th Army with support from 47th Pz Korps and after only a couple of days, the heavily fortified positions surrendered. More than 900 tanks, 25000 men and 149 guns were captured.

Further south, previous reconnaissance of the area had revealed large concentration of some slopped armor tanks. Intelligence said they were called T-34. Kleist's 1st Panzer Army was assigned the task of cutting these units from supply. He succesfully sent 48th Pz Korps east of Tarnopol to capture the only railroad leading to Lvov City. They are not expected to resits very long.

The only setback happened in Lettonia where von Manstein (56th Pz Korps) was given the task of capturing Riga. Logistics mistakes has put an infantry Korps in his way and the city will remain Soviet's one more week.

Casualties (Germans/Russians):
Squads: 515/5956
afvx: 128/1953
guns: 27/2187
aircrafts: 204/5618

[whollaborg]

13th of July 1941

Soviet Forces were severly shaken by the brutal assault of the warmongering barbarians. New positions are being build all over the western Soviet union.

Initial blows have been nearly devastating and hundreds of soviet planes lie in shatters. The remaining have flow to east for refitting of squadons. Soviet airforces will be back.

First defensive positions were dug to hold Zhitomir and Odessa which was guarded by elite 3rd Shock army. Defenders of Zhitomir fell back towards Kiev when overwhelming numbers of barbarian panzers came.
The 3rd Shock army has fought already valiantly for two weeks in Odessa. 11th Tank division took blood in especially large quantities. Odessa is supplied from the sea as newly formed panzer corps cut the rail line before the attacks to the city.

Most of the soviet Army is intact and going through extensive progam of re-education to avoid further humiliations of soviet man.

[pyguinard]

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele


Initial blows have been nearly devastating and hundreds of soviet planes lie in shatters. The remaining have flow to east for refitting of squadons. Soviet airforces will be back.

Here are some pictures taken for German Minister of propaganda [8D]

[pyguinard]

one more picture...

[pyguinard]

July 27th 1941

German blitzkrieg is well on its way. After some quiet moments where Wermacht did not find any serious resistance, last week saw some tough fighting against entrenched Russian positions..

In Eastern Ukraine, huge formations of tanks were captured without any significant resistance. Southern wing of Army Group South regained momentum after the siege of Odessa where weak garrison troops surrendered. A little further North, heavy fighting occured for the city of Kiev. An attempt to quickly overrun the city had previously failed. This time, intelligence informed that Zhukov in person was here to organize the defense. Five consecutive assaults were not enough to exctricate the city from those sub-human bolcheviks. Losses on both sides were very high (Rus/Ger 40040/20490, men 184/54 guns and 91/136 tanks)

In Bielo-Russia, IInd Pz Army was unsuccesfull at capturing Mogilev. Infantrymen of the IXth and IVth army are folowing closely to make the pressure untenable while one or two Pz Korps will possibly try to outflank the fortified Soviets.

In the North, nothing seems to be able to stop IIIrd and IVth Pz Armies. Pskov was overrun and the Baltic countries are almost liberated. Decision has been maid to outflank and annihilate as many ennemy units as possible in order to facilitate further advance towards Leningrad.

Casualties so far Axis/Soviets:
squads: 2500/18068
afv: 912/4520
guns: 258/6647
aircrafts: 522/5679

[Elefantinho]

Quite an interesting game, gentlemen. Allow me to give my comments, and that's why you opened this thread anyway, I suppose. If not, just tell me to shut up, and I'll glady comply. [;)]

Although Savanniperkele might use only skeleton armies, it looks like Pyguinard is going to face some opposition on the northern flank of his advance to Moscow. When I play Germans I find Demyansk sometimes more difficult to capture than Leningrad. And as Soviets I always transfer all my Mountain divisions from the South to this area and they very often hold out quite well. Since there will be no supply increase next turn it will take precious time for the Germans to take Velikye Luki, although Vitebsk might be in reach.

Gomel seems like a gaping hole on the map, but maybe German air recce just doesn't see the Soviet defenses. However, the supply reduction next turn and the lack of panzer armies in the area avoid this being a serious option for the Germans the coming turns.

In the south Kiev is doomed as always, but it seems Savanniperkele wants to make a temporary stand there, which is quite possible, for just a few turns. My experience against good players is not to hang on too long, because before you know the Ukraine is gone and you'll have tons of armies left in a pocket.

What surprises me is the Soviet resistance south of Kiev: there are quite some armies still on the western side of the Dnieper. And they likely all contain full strength divisions from Southern Front. I never managed to make a stand there and in general I retreat these armies before they get in touch with German spearheads. Quite curious how this battle develops.

I don't want to depress anyone, and of course the info presented is limited, but for the moment I'd put my money on the Soviets holding Moscow. Which does not mean the Germans cannot deal a severe blow to the Red Army by capturing Leningrad and maybe Rostov.

Please keep us updated.

[pyguinard]

ORIGINAL: Elefantinho

Quite an interesting game, gentlemen. Allow me to give my comments, and that's why you opened this thread anyway, I suppose. If not, just tell me to shut up, and I'll glady comply. [;)]

(...)

Gomel seems like a gaping hole on the map, but maybe German air recce just doesn't see the Soviet defenses. However, the supply reduction next turn and the lack of panzer armies in the area avoid this being a serious option for the Germans the coming turns.

In the south Kiev is doomed as always, but it seems Savanniperkele wants to make a temporary stand there, which is quite possible, for just a few turns. My experience against good players is not to hang on too long, because before you know the Ukraine is gone and you'll have tons of armies left in a pocket.

What surprises me is the Soviet resistance south of Kiev: there are quite some armies still on the western side of the Dnieper. And they likely all contain full strength divisions from Southern Front. I never managed to make a stand there and in general I retreat these armies before they get in touch with German spearheads. Quite curious how this battle develops.

I don't want to depress anyone, and of course the info presented is limited, but for the moment I'd put my money on the Soviets holding Moscow. Which does not mean the Germans cannot deal a severe blow to the Red Army by capturing Leningrad and maybe Rostov.

Please keep us updated.

Thanks for the comments. Please, feel free to add some more!
Btw, I am not depressed [;)]

Savanniperkele and I are putting AAR 2-3 turns after it happened in order to write as much as possible without compromising effect of surprise. [8D]

Here's a quick picture of how the following turns happened (I hope Savanniperkele won't mind about me sending it). Elefantinho, you were almost right about Gomel since it was weakly defended and also about Kiev. Both cities fell on the turn that is illustrated here.

The red arrows are what I remember trying to do and the oblique bars show where the attempts were able to reach. 'X' is where units were eliminated. (ex.: In the North, Pz Korps reached Leningrad and captured it and in the center, Pz Korps was stopped during an envelopping manoeuver and The attack on Vitebsk failed)

Enjoy!

[Elefantinho]

ORIGINAL: pyguinard

(...)

Quite some developments, you guys play quite fast. What's the date here? Capturing Leningrad before Vitebsk doesn't happen too often. I think this will hurt the Soviets very much.

I wonder though how you're going to manage to attack Moscow. Unless you clear up the mess in the center you can only push from the north for Kalinin and attack through Orel at the same time. Now that would be the greatest pincer movement in history. [:D]

By the way, thanks for the effort to show your movements on the map! It really helps getting insight in game.

[EvilWeevil]

Can't see much of Savanniperkele's defences to the West and South of Moscow.

Looking at the 2nd map provided, the Soviets have got several things to do to hold out.

I'm guessing that the Soviets haven't pulled back from Kiev area, as it's looking like alot of Soviet troops are going to be trapped in a Salient, starting from Gomel to the South of Kiev.

The next delaying areas for the Soviets should be:

1) Demyask to Veli Luki.
2) Smolensk to bryansk.
3) River line west of Thikvin.
4) Poltava, Dnreptovrsk and the town South of it.

The defensive lines after these should be

1) River line west of Vologda.
2) Kalinin, Rzhev, Vyazma, Tula, Voronezh.
3) Rostov area.
4) Stalingrad.

At this rate, the Axis have captured Leningrad, even if they don't capture Moscow this year, they are in good shape to bring the Russians to the knees in '42.

One strategy for the Axis would be to smash as much of the oil and production centers in Stalingrad and other areas in the South this year, withdraw to more defensible lines, survive the Winter using Hedgehog city tactics. The Axis won't lose much ground as the Soviets will have to advance, encircle the cities then take them. All wasting valuable time, supply of men & equipment.

[EvilWeevil]

Just re-read Elefantino's posts about both maps. What I tend to find is that if the Russians can hold Kiev and the lines around Gomel from mid July till mid August, the retreat in the South is better for the Soviets.

I'm surprised the Soviets haven't retreated all the armies South of Kiev to the east side of the Dniepr as it's almost worthless trying to slow down the Axis in this area in '41. The only defensive lines are around Odessa, next ones are on the Dniepr river lines.

In the north, my guess is that the Axis will attack along the Demyansk front in the next turns.

In the center, the drive from Gomel will head for Kursk, splitting the Soviet front and forcing the Soviets into a hasty retreat in the South. Here the Axis player can go North to Moscow via Tula or Voronezh.

[whollaborg]

Pyguinard really caught me by surprise in Leningrad where i had made a mistake not to reinforce the city as it seemed strong enough. With he's spledid thrust he cut the supply of quite a few very good armies south from Leningrad not to mention the loss of citys industry. This really took my northern theatre out of action for a long time i pressume.
He lost few hundred panzers that attacked well dug positions south from Leningrad, but still this might have been devastating blow.

He's panzer corps plunge in the centre was a very risky move but it might have made bad damage already even if it now suffers bombardments of nearly all of soviet airforces (3 interdictions, 5 000 casulties).

Kiev held out few turns as it was planned and it even produced one guards division. Taking it costed hundreds of panzers and a huge pile of german manpower. Defending army retreated finally (did not shatter or surrender) and the city still remained soviet even without any defenders. Other armies are dug in behind the riverbanks.

Speed of Pyignard blitzkrieg have been staggering so far. Worst in the North because of the loss of Leningrad, bad in the middle and sustainable in the south.
But if the Moscow holds, the war is not over yet.

(sorry that i cannot manage to capture screens in my xp system. Perhaps i should install some program for that use?)

[Koniev]

Very Interesting and entertaining campaign. I have a question - why are the symbols on the maps different from mine? Where'd the stars come from and why are the german HQ's a different color? I have v3.3.

[pyguinard]

Koniev,

Thank you for the comment although it is only a typical campaign 41 game opposing an expert Russian defender against an intermediate agressive german opponent. I guess the screen shots must add a little something to this AAR [:)]

The differences you see come from a visual oriented mod that a fellow member (Flanker Leader) had set. If you are interested, you can download it by clicking here

[EvilWeevil]

What is the current date of the campaign? Losses so far? Any new maps ?

[whollaborg]

Thanks for your interest Elefantinho, EvilWeevil, Koniev and others,

Last turn sent was Soviet 10th of August 1941. We have had a short hollydays brake because of mine travels and too many social occasions with old friends and relatives in northern Finland where the sun did not come up.

We are continuing shortly with a massive assault of Pyguinards armies that took the Leningrad already (sic!) last turn.

Defensive lines have been manufactured and ditches are dug in secret areas of Rodina as we speak. Barbarian hordes shall meet their bloody end.

[Elefantinho]

ORIGINAL: pyguinard
The differences you see come from a visual oriented mod that a fellow member (Flanker Leader) had set. If you are interested, you can download it by clicking here

No disrespect to Flanker at all, but some people like me prefer the traditional icons. So please inform your Soviet opponent when you play with the Flanker mod as Germans since if your opponent plays with the traditional WIR icons as Soviets, his Yak-1s will look like US fighters. I have spent some time to adjust the icon files to be compatible from a Soviet perspective with a German opponent who uses the Flanker Surface Tweak. I'll post these on the board as soon as I can.

[JagdFlanker]

that must have been an accident because i went out of my way to keep all ikons identical in position to the 3.3 ones! (except the S.M.79, which i discarded for an extra Yak ikon)
it will be fixed in the future...

also the link above is for mods only - i have never posted the 3.3 new ikon set. it may only be obtained by contacting me directly.

[Elefantinho]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

that must have been an accident because i went out of my way to keep all ikons identical in position to the 3.3 ones! (except the S.M.79, which i discarded for an extra Yak ikon)
it will be fixed in the future...

Knowing your usual focus on details, I fear that something else might be going on. Other people would have complained as well. Very strange. Would you be willing to send me a German PBEM 1941 opening turn using your mod? You don't have to move or attack, I'll just use it to check how the Soviets show up [8D]

[pyguinard]

8th August 1941

Two months after the dramatic shatter of Rommel's Afrika Korps, the situation on the Italian Front seems to have stabilize (indeed, I forgot to mention that Allieds took control of Northern Africa on the very first turn without any obvious reasons!! [:(] )

The situation on the Eastern Front is much more encouraging. Since the situation of Army Group North is well under control with the capture of Leningrad, Pz divisions including TotenKopf SS Motorized, Das Reich, Ist and VIIIth Pz Divisions have been railed further South to protect the northern flanks of Army Group Center while it contunues its dive through the breach opened by XLVIth Pz Korps (Das Reich SS and Groß-Deutschland).

Even if an attempt to overrun Rhzev failed, the supply lines feeding the mighty attackers (through Vyazma) look secured, thanks to the support of two more Pz Korps in the surroundings and with the capture of Tula further South. Operation Typhoon for the capture of Moscow shall commence next week if the weather allows it.

In the South, Intelligence reports that the Soviet High Command has been caught with their pants down when a gigantic pinceer movement was succesfully broached. The Northern jaw composed of veterans from the Battle of Kiev (L.A.H. SS and Viking SS Motorized div. etc.) were launched towards Kursk which was quickly overran. The southern jaw succesfully crossed Southern Dnepr to reach the gates of Stalino.

According to decrypted russian messages, comunications between Kharkov and Moscow are cut (of course confirmation of this news is eagerly awaited by OKH). Supply to all Eastern Ukraine might very well be delayed for several turns which in a worst case scenario, will prevent any of them from assisting in the defense of Moscow.

Casualties after this turn:
[font="Courier New"]
AXIS
.......... In turn... Since start
squads.... 518....... 6 097
afvs...... 101....... 2 463
guns...... 50........ 641
aircraft.. 54........ 991

SOVIET
.......... In turn... Since start
squads.... 2 570..... 43 010
afvs...... 434....... 9 651
guns...... 657....... 15 840
aircraft.. 0......... 6 317

[/font]

[whollaborg]

End of August,

Congratulations Pyguinard, for another splendid move during this game. 60 nearly full (sic!) soviet divisions cut out of supply might just be enough to show me game over sign. That was a big blow indeed.
The speed of advance and brutal use of panzer corps was not anticipated in witnessed amount. Many of enemy corps are cut out of supply but occasional 25% losses dont seem to worry the opponent. And sadly the soviet army is unable to organise counterattacks or punish some quite "ripe" panzercorps plunges. New t34's are waited in every front, will those be there in time?
I must accept that Pyguinard has been very efficient in teaching a leson of humility by he's speedy clearing the way to the gates of Moscow already.

Early rains might save the situation, we hope...