How to Set Up Invasion Forces?

[Treetop64]

I keep hitting a block in this area...

Playing the Allies on the full WitP scenario. I can say that I'm "competent" in deploying naval forces, air forces, and manually setting up sufficient merchant convoys and lifelines. However, I'm completely in the dark when knowing what to do in regards to selecting the proper forces in planning for an invasion. Specifically, what forces do I choose, and when, if I want to invade Kwajelein, for example. Between looking to see whats available on the US West Coast and the database showing what forces will soon be available, I nearly give myself headaches trying to figure out what to do!

Not looking for someone to plan any strategies for me, just looking for some tips and tircks to get me started.

Thanks!

[scott64]

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

I keep hitting a block in this area...

Playing the Allies on the full WitP scenario. I can say that I'm "competent" in deploying naval forces, air forces, and manually setting up sufficient merchant convoys and lifelines. However, I'm completely in the dark when knowing what to do in regards to selecting the proper forces in planning for an invasion. Specifically, what forces do I choose, and when, if I want to invade Kwajelein, for example. Between looking to see whats available on the US West Coast and the database showing what forces will soon be available, I nearly give myself headaches trying to figure out what to do!

Not looking for someone to plan any strategies for me, just looking for some tips and tircks to get me started.

Thanks!

Kwajelein if I recall will probably have around 25 units depending on when you invade and if your against the a.i. You will probably need twice that amount to even survive to get off the beaches. After that it will be a very long battle. [:'(]

[Dereck]

Treetop,

Check this link out. I listed what units I had in my Kwajalein invasion in the thread.

tm.asp?m=930507&mpage=1&key=Kwajalein&#930576

[Cpt Sherwood]

To start, is this a PBEM or AI game? You will probably have to have more in a PBEM game. Second, have you done a lot of recon? What do you see there? It is a bit hard to tell you what to take if we don't know what is there. As a minimum I would suggest the following:

First wave:
1 Marine Division
1 Armor Btn
1 Amphib HQ
1 Combat Engineer
1 Art Unit
Enough supply

Second wave:
1 Army Div
2 Armor Btn
2 Art Unit
1 CD unit
2 Combat Engineer
1 Corp HQ
more than enough supply

Third wave should have Base Forces and SeaBees and lots of supply.

You may also might want to have more units loaded at a nearby base for emergency( Army Division, Armour units )

As soon as you take the Island remove the first wave to a better base with lots of supply and support and start it prepping for the next invasion they will make. Reduce the enemy using bombardment attacks and deliberate attacks using only the Armor Btns. It will take a while but you will eventually eliminate all of the enemy.

[tsimmonds]

Take something else first (Maloelap--big airfield, Jaluit--big port) and bomb the crap out of it before you try to land there. Or better yet, bypass Kwaj altogether.

[Treetop64]

It's against the AI

I'm not ready to start moving on Kwaj yet, but I plan on it in the future. I was just using Kwaj as an example, as that will likely be my first move. I need tips on the mechanics of planning and assembling an invasion force in general, for any location.

Thanks again. [:)]

[Tom Hunter]

I am busy screwing up my first amphibious invasion right now [:(] here is what I have learned so far.

1) If you in a PBEM game don't rush the prep. I was trying to keep the game moving fast while doing a lot of other things and when invasions launch the devil is in the details. Same is true against the AI, spend the time to plan.

2) Bombard for a long, long time. The USA would attack targets for Months prior to going ashore. That is no accident, it works. I will post an analysis over on my AAR take a look.

3) Send base forces and other support in the invasion

4) Big convoys, put the ships together to avoid coordination problems

5) Supply in a seperate convoy of 4500 capacity AKs, send lots.

Check the Lunacy AAR for more

[Thilo]

When it comes to Atols, try to bypass the well defended ones like probably Kwajalein. take the smaller ones, don't haste it. You will not win the war in the Gilberts. From my experience, forget the vessels with short endurance, load one LCU to one TF with the correct number of ships, commbine them afterwards, send them to a meeting point and land all on the same day. Learned the importance of coordination when landig on Eniwetok against PBEM opponent in 4/44 and got the shit slabbed out of me (do you say this in English?) because I landed on 8! consequtive phases, provoking 5 full attacks and thus units at a disastrous fatigue level. Takes weeks to recover and set up a second wave.
In short: forget the big ones, train, coordinate, use enough forces, wait
Easy, eh?

[tsimmonds]

I landed on 8! consequtive phases, provoking 5 full attacks and thus units at a disastrous fatigue level. Takes weeks to recover and set up a second wave

Perhaps most important single concept is not to scrimp on assault shipping (APs, LSTs, LCIs, what-have-you). Rather than efficiently packing each vessel to its maximum capacity, you will be far better off to do what I call combat-loading, which in game terms is loading each AP with only as many load points as can be discharged in a single day. In my experience this is around 400 load points, although it may differ for the allies/later years. Take the unit you are loading, divide its load capacity requirement by 400 (or whatever you decide the magic number is), and that is the number of transports you should load onto. Of course if you use some vessels that have capacity of less than 400 you will need to take this into consideration. The point is though to get your assault LCUs unloaded as quickly as possible.

Don't load supply onto your assault shipping either. That supply will begin to unload only after the LCU is landed. You want your LCUs to have supply from the very start. This means that the assault wave must include AKs loaded with only supply. Here you should follow the same pattern as you did with the APs: it is better to have 25 AKs each with 400 supply than it is to have 4 AKs each with 2500 supply.

Getting the transports unloaded fast not only gets your boys ashore quickly, ready to fight, it also gets your assault shipping turned around so you can do it again, whether to reinforce this landing or too conduct another one someplace else. It also takes away an easy target for your opponent's CD, air, and surface forces, and in so doing it simplifies the duties of your warships covering the landing.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

It's against the AI

I'm not ready to start moving on Kwaj yet, but I plan on it in the future. I was just using Kwaj as an example, as that will likely be my first move. I need tips on the mechanics of planning and assembling an invasion force in general, for any location.

Thanks again. [:)]

Invade Tarawa first. That will give you an land based airfield close to Kwajalein you can use in addition to any carriers. Until you have overpowering number of carriers follow the golden rule Nimitz and MacArthur did in the real war: don't advance beyond the cover of your land based air.

[Sardaukar]

As many of you may know, I had bad experience with landing ships, so not going to TF compositions...[8D]

But when Allies, I usually invade with (late 1943 and later) following TFs:
Bombardment TF
Air Combat TF (or CVE Escort TF is no major air threat..make that or a + when there is..[:D])
2x Amphibious TF, first carrying 1st(or 3rd Marine Division, Marine Amphibious Tank Battaillon and Marine Raider or Para Bn), second is carrying either 2nd or 4th Marine Division and Army Regimental Combat team.
TF with AGC and Amphibious Force HQ (ADM Turner is preferred!)

That usually does the job...[8D]

[Rob322]

Also, do anything you can do to keep his supply down, establish sea control of the area in advance and don't let him get anymore convoys through. Bomb him regularly to soften him up and soak up supply. The Japanese don't surrender usually and lack of supply isn't going to influence that very much but it may limit what his LCU's can do to you once you're ashore.

Also, ignore an island or atoll if you don't need it and try and hit him where he ain't. Consider bypassing some of the sure bloodbaths and go for a smaller target nearby. The big ones will eventually wither on the vine (much like what happened to Wake).

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

As many of you may know, I had bad experience with landing ships, so not going to TF compositions...[8D]

But when Allies, I usually invade with (late 1943 and later) following TFs:
Bombardment TF
Air Combat TF (or CVE Escort TF is no major air threat..make that or a + when there is..[:D])
2x Amphibious TF, first carrying 1st(or 3rd Marine Division, Marine Amphibious Tank Battaillon and Marine Raider or Para Bn), second is carrying either 2nd or 4th Marine Division and Army Regimental Combat team.
TF with AGC and Amphibious Force HQ (ADM Turner is preferred!)

That usually does the job...[8D]

I still like LST's although once in awhile they get shot up (and well they should, they're not meant to be durable). Still, to me nothing beats their fast unloading capacity, particularly when the beach is heavily defended I want to have as many troops as possible landing as fast as possible.

[Treetop64]

Man, there is a ton of good advice here! I'm trying not to get even more confused than I was before I asked the question!

The more I play WitP, the more I realize that it's more of a wartime strategic logistical support simulator than it is a strategic war simulator - no matter what you do or where you go, your forces are lunch meat without substantial logistical support.

I never fully appreciated just how important that part of the war was, as virtually every documentary and book I've seen and read focuses almost exclusively on the action, and not how the action is enabled. I spend significantly more time managing transport TFs and aircraft deployment than anything else in the game. Of course, that is contributed by the fact that I manage all of my support TF's manually - I don't use auto-convoys.

Honestly, I'm terrified how my first assault will turn out! Though I'm still quite a long ways off from that, I'm already thinking about how best to carry it out, and where. For now though, my two carriers (with one coming from San Diego) are having tons of fun bombing the chips out of shipping in Kwaj, and ruining the airfield's day when not attacking ships.

Oh, and the animations are much, much smoother on my new rig I just finished building. And it whips through processing the phases like it's nothing. "TRAINING SHIP CREWS" literally takes just two or three seconds now, whereas before it took nearly two minutes or more. It's almost like a new game now!

...just though I add that part; I'm so proud of myself! Tee-Hee! [:D]
It's my first homebuilt, and it's a screamer!

[Cpt Sherwood]

I only answered the question you asked, what forces to use. This game places a large premium on preperation and planning You must prepare both the enemy base and your own troops. You need to have all forces that will be invading with 100 preperation points. You must also spend a long time bombing with aircraft and then Naval bombardments. Use LBA to hit both airfield and port targets, this will hit supply, engineers, AA units, CD units, and HQs. By attacking the port with LBA you can disrupt and disable the CD unit guns, this makes your Naval bombardments and invasion landings less painfull. Use your CVEs to perform CAS missions before landing, this will distupt and fatigue all LCUs. It can take up to a month or more to prepare an enemy base for invasion. Have fun. [:D]

[scout1]

How come a player can allocate transports for loading LCU's to the tune of ~ 3x needed lift compacity and if "Loaded Troops Only", can load up in a single turn, where supplies and/or resources load at a given magically rate of several turns. Afterall, these troops have a bit of equipment that doesn't pack well. Loading an entire division in a day is a pretty neat trick that even Hollywood would have trouble selling.

It may be an abstraction, but seems to me it should be consistent one way or the other.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

I only answered the question you asked, what forces to use. This game places a large premium on preperation and planning You must prepare both the enemy base and your own troops. You need to have all forces that will be invading with 100 preperation points. You must also spend a long time bombing with aircraft and then Naval bombardments. Use LBA to hit both airfield and port targets, this will hit supply, engineers, AA units, CD units, and HQs. By attacking the port with LBA you can disrupt and disable the CD unit guns, this makes your Naval bombardments and invasion landings less painfull. Use your CVEs to perform CAS missions before landing, this will distupt and fatigue all LCUs. It can take up to a month or more to prepare an enemy base for invasion. Have fun. [:D]

Planning is critical. I once spent three weeks of playing time (not kidding there) and roughly a month of game time planning an assault once. Turned out to be a good idea since what I thought was a brigade was actually a division. There are so many elements to consider (the minesweepers, the bombardment, what ships to add to the invasion TF, the HQ TF, establishing sea control, the units that make up first wave-second wave, etc), getting supplies together, using air to soften them up before, and if playing a human, maybe laying up a deception attack to distract them from what your target really is. And I know I'm leaving stuff out. Still, it's amazingly rewarding when all that effort pays off.

[Xargun]

Don't forget places like Kwajelein will have at least 1 CD unit - if PBeM then possibly 2 or 3 depending on your opponent's plans. Be sure to include some cruisers in your amphib TFs to counterbattery their fire or you will lose a lot of men (and ships) while they unload under that heavy fire.

Also, only about half the people commented on it.. But PREPARATION is probably the first or second most inportant factor. I just landed at Palembang with a full brigade under enemy fire and only lost around 700 men during the 2 landing phases (entire unit unloaded in 2 phases). The Brigade has over 50 preparation for the target and I expect it will single handedly take the base against 5-7 enemy units. Also I noticed the disruption / fatigue of the unit is very low - even AFTER it landed so preparation is very important.

Xargun