Unit Depictions on Screen

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Frederyck
The counters look wonderful. Excellent job! I have one question, though. The MOTs have their small filled in circles "the wheels" only tangentially touching the rectangle above. On the real life counters, it looks like they are somewhat more overlapping. Is this an effect of the larger images on screen?

I can move them up a pixel. That will probably look better.

But "real life counters"? Ya gotta stop talking to them, man! Soon they'll be talking back.[;)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Oh, how lovely. [:)] I'll go with the 3 letters since they should be easier for the players to figure out.

You'll need a bit of poetic licence for Yugoslavia [:)]

There probably are a few more too. However, the Olympic letter codes are for almost 200 countries and there are only about 125 with units in MWIF, so most of them should be in there.

By the way I learned a song a few years back which consists of nothing but the names of countries. It has 4 verses and contains 176 names. If I were seriously maniacal about it I could add a 5th verse using the countries that came into existence after the break up of the USSR.

[pak19652002]

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

Off on the horizon is the issue of the status boxes, the choice of their colors and other manipulations to convey come of the items you mentioned.

Talking about the status boxes are they slightly larger than the counter itself? To me it looks like there is an extra pixel on each side of the counter. Is that intentional or could you use that extra pixel to add a tiny 3-D effect to the counters.

Regarding lines, the black outlines in the CWIF counters appear thicker to me and all the same width. Therefore I can't really notice that the status bar is bigger. Maybe using slightly wider lines (all of the same width) would solve this problem, which does, unfortunately, convey the impression that the counters aren't "done"...which, of course, they aren't.

Peter

[pak19652002]

5 - Units from aligned minor countries are recolored to match the controlling major power. Some notable exceptions are Poland, Spain, and Turkey which are left as is. This decision primarily affects units from the Balkans, southern Asia, and South America.

I'm not a rules maven, but I think changing aligned minors' color to match the controlling major power is a mistake unless the minor units behave exactly like the major for all purposes.

For example, the Rumanians can't all leave their country (in most cases) and they can't cooperate with the other major power (e.g., Italy). The color difference makes minor units' different status immediately noticeable. If they all look German (let's say), the temptation will be to think they behave like German units and they don't.

I'd be curious what the experts think about this. To me, it's a practical concern more than an aesthetic one.

Peter

[pak19652002]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

I'm another member of this forgotten minority and have raised this issue several times in the past. Steve has assured me that Matrix publishes its games in full compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.[;)]

In other words, he promised to make important information available in ways color blind people can perceive.

So, how do the counters look to you? Should I try to put certain units next to each other?

From the colorblindness perspective I think they are coming along pretty well. I would like to see the Chinese and Italian next to each other as well as the US and Russian units. Another problem is a dark red (or green) unit with black writing. The black fades into the red, but I see this is a problem for many.

Another tough one is red writing on green counters or vice versa. The goal should be to keep red and green far apart from one another either on the map (opposing or allied units) or on a counter (e.g., red writing on green background).

Somedody noted one time that the game seemed to do this already since the Italians don't come near the Chinese and the Americans are on the opposite side of the world from the Russians.

If you can just maintain the principle of "separation of colors" we should be in great shape!

Thanks,

Peter

[Froonp]

Right now I am leaning towards Chris' (CWIF's) solution to the various units with dual affiliations:

1 - Captured units are repainted to match the new owner.

2 - Permantently acquired units are repainted to match the new owner (e.g., Netherlands naval units, Norwegian transport, Bearn).

Well, you need to be carefull here in my opinion, because there are 2 kinds of "Permantently acquired units".
Netherlands naval units stay Dutch units after the Netherlands and or the NEI fall, because the Netherlands are only incompletely conquered. So those units do not cooperate with other minors aligned to the CW, as the Danish (who also are incompletely conquered) for example. The Yugoslavian ships on the other hand become CW units after the fall of Yugoslavia, because Yugoslavia is completely conquered. So the ex-yugoslav ships cooperate with all the others ships from minors aligned to the CW.
So I think that you should use two rules :
2a - Permantently acquired units and naval units from completely conquered aligned countries are repainted to match the new owner (e.g., Yugoslavian & Polish naval units, Bearn).
2b - Permantently acquired units from incompletely conquered aligned countries stay as they are (e.g., Dutch & Danish naval units).
This should be to help the player understand why the Danish & the Dutch ship are refusing to dock at the same port for example (not cooperating has lots of bad sides thatt the player will be aware of from the rule book).

3 - Lend leased units get a horizontal middle stripe the color of the country from whence they came (since they are mostly owned by the controlling player, there is less of the original owning country's color).

4 - Loaned units get a horizontal bottom stripe for color of the borrowing player (mostly owned by the original player, so there is more of that color).

5 - Units from aligned minor countries are recolored to match the controlling major power. Some notable exceptions are Poland, Spain, and Turkey which are left as is. This decision primarily affects units from the Balkans, southern Asia, and South America.

Here I'll have the same reserve as for 2.
Units from aligned minor countries do not cooperate with each others. Mexicans & Brazilians for example do not cooperate when both are aligned by the USA, and do not cooperate with the CW units, so both cannot end a move in the same hex for example, they cannot enter a CW home country, cannot stack with a CW unit, so if you change their color to the US color you will end with a 6-5 US MOT (Brazilian in fact) that cannot stack with a British unit in Malta and will wonder why.
I think that Minor country units should stay their color.

Cheers !
Patrice

[Froonp]

Yeah, I cut out the CorelDraw middle man. Here's a revisit of the German SS

I feel they are better.
However, I can't tell the yellow printed from the white printed easily enough. Maybe make them more yellow ? Or a yellowish red ?
On this shot the green of the MAR is more green, it is OK for me, and the Blue of the ART & PARA would need to be slightly more blue.
For the white print SS units, the color of the surrounding line and of the MOT wheels should be white to have the box not seeming smaller.

[Froonp]

Now that you shot the Corel middleman, I'd like to see the Japanese again, because the Red of the German TD unit was looking good on the German shot. Could you post a new shot of the Japanese, and why not a new shot at all of the countries ? It is too bad if our previous comments where not right on spot because of the Corel middle conversion.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

Regarding lines, the black outlines in the CWIF counters appear thicker to me and all the same width. Therefore I can't really notice that the status bar is bigger. Maybe using slightly wider lines (all of the same width) would solve this problem, which does, unfortunately, convey the impression that the counters aren't "done"...which, of course, they aren't.

Peter

Making the unit depiction outlines slightly wider so they match the status bar on top seems like a good idea. I'll investigate. If that doesn't work, then I'll trim the left status box to 14 pixels wide and the right to match the others (15) which will bring everything into alignment.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Right now I am leaning towards Chris' (CWIF's) solution to the various units with dual affiliations:

1 - Captured units are repainted to match the new owner.

2 - Permantently acquired units are repainted to match the new owner (e.g., Netherlands naval units, Norwegian transport, Bearn).

Well, you need to be carefull here in my opinion, because there are 2 kinds of "Permantently acquired units".
Netherlands naval units stay Dutch units after the Netherlands and or the NEI fall, because the Netherlands are only incompletely conquered. So those units do not cooperate with other minors aligned to the CW, as the Danish (who also are incompletely conquered) for example. The Yugoslavian ships on the other hand become CW units after the fall of Yugoslavia, because Yugoslavia is completely conquered. So the ex-yugoslav ships cooperate with all the others ships from minors aligned to the CW.
So I think that you should use two rules :
2a - Permantently acquired units and naval units from completely conquered aligned countries are repainted to match the new owner (e.g., Yugoslavian & Polish naval units, Bearn).
2b - Permantently acquired units from incompletely conquered aligned countries stay as they are (e.g., Dutch & Danish naval units).
This should be to help the player understand why the Danish & the Dutch ship are refusing to dock at the same port for example (not cooperating has lots of bad sides thatt the player will be aware of from the rule book).

3 - Lend leased units get a horizontal middle stripe the color of the country from whence they came (since they are mostly owned by the controlling player, there is less of the original owning country's color).

4 - Loaned units get a horizontal bottom stripe for color of the borrowing player (mostly owned by the original player, so there is more of that color).

5 - Units from aligned minor countries are recolored to match the controlling major power. Some notable exceptions are Poland, Spain, and Turkey which are left as is. This decision primarily affects units from the Balkans, southern Asia, and South America.

Here I'll have the same reserve as for 2.
Units from aligned minor countries do not cooperate with each others. Mexicans & Brazilians for example do not cooperate when both are aligned by the USA, and do not cooperate with the CW units, so both cannot end a move in the same hex for example, they cannot enter a CW home country, cannot stack with a CW unit, so if you change their color to the US color you will end with a 6-5 US MOT (Brazilian in fact) that cannot stack with a British unit in Malta and will wonder why.
I think that Minor country units should stay their color.

Cheers !
Patrice

OK. Good. The Bearn is a special case because France is incompletely conquered - but the Bearn is always a special case.

The fundamaental logic/design philosophy is that controlled minor country units take on the controlling major power's colors only if their performance is identical to the units of the major power.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Yeah, I cut out the CorelDraw middle man. Here's a revisit of the German SS

I feel they are better.
However, I can't tell the yellow printed from the white printed easily enough. Maybe make them more yellow ? Or a yellowish red ?
On this shot the green of the MAR is more green, it is OK for me, and the Blue of the ART & PARA would need to be slightly more blue.
For the white print SS units, the color of the surrounding line and of the MOT wheels should be white to have the box not seeming smaller.

I'll work on the yellow for the SS, but I do not offer much hope there.

Patrice, I now have you down as someone who checks to see if the yellow and white can be distinguished readily.

There are at least 2 forms of color blindness of which I am aware: red/green and blue/yellow. And there are many gradations in between these two loosely defined categories. I believe it has to do with the ratio of rods and cones in the composition of the eyes.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Now that you shot the Corel middleman, I'd like to see the Japanese again, because the Red of the German TD unit was looking good on the German shot. Could you post a new shot of the Japanese, and why not a new shot at all of the countries ? It is too bad if our previous comments where not right on spot because of the Corel middle conversion.

It was a nasty business, out in back of the old warehouse, but the two 45 slugs to the back of the head ended his suffering.

Back by popular demand, prior to their triumphant tour of the Pacific.

[Rorgg]

well, Yugoslavia had an IOC code, I think it was just "YUG."

Aha! A quick search shows Wikipedia as usual to be my saviour:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOC_country_codes

includes the defunct ones down at the bottom.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Rorgg

well, Yugoslavia had an IOC code, I think it was just "YUG."

Aha! A quick search shows Wikipedia as usual to be my saviour:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOC_country_codes

includes the defunct ones down at the bottom.

And Flags!

That means I can do most of the flag graphics myself without requiring work from the graphics artist.

Thanks.

[Rorgg]

Of course, remember some of those flags have changed since 1940.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Rorgg

Of course, remember some of those flags have changed since 1940.

Sigh.

Yeah. The US for one. Germany for two. And I need a Commonwealth flag. Others?

Luckily I am just concerned with the major powers.

[Froonp]

German Nazi.

[Froonp]

German, Nazi Military. Don't remember where I took them from.

[Froonp]

France Vichy.

[Froonp]

France, Free.