MWiF air units ready for review

[Greyshaft]

'tis done... I am a Bride!

The draft MWiF Air Unit descriptions is ready for review. All willing souls are invited to review the file and advise any necessary corrections in this thread here for discussion. Note that the following units are not yet done. The internet let me down badly on the following units. I welcome input from anyone who has any information on them. I need :
* engine HP
* top speed
* bombload
* guns
* any intersting trivia



G.57 Centauro
Ki-102d Otsu
Letov S528
Macchi C.205N Orione
Martin
P 133 Piaggio
P.663
P-39I AiraCobra
Ta-152H2
TBF-4
TBF-5
Z.1024

Since the file is > 200k I can't load it here. Send me an email at

greyshaft
at
hotmail
dot
com

and I'll send it to you.

Next project is finalising the Beta Test team... thanks for your patience on this

[Glen Felzien]

Macchi C.205N Orione

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.205

Production continued after the armistice, eventually a total of 265 had been built before Allied bombing destroyed the production lines in Varese. Prototypes of several high-altitude upgrades had been completed as well, the C.205N-1 Orione had a larger wing and was armed with a 20 mm cannon in the engine and four 50-caliber guns in the wings, while the similar N-2 version had three 20mm cannons and only two of the 50cal guns. Design work on production versions of these planes with even more wing area were on the boards as the C.206 (similar to the N-1) and C.207 (four 20mm cannons), but were neither were ever built

More details on the link.

[Glen Felzien]

Regarding the Martin, which one?

http://search.info.com/infocom.us/redirfree.htm?area=srch.comm.google&path=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.info.com%2Finfocom.us%2Fclickit%2Fsearch%3Fr_sacop%3D4%26r_scoid%3D239138%26r_spf%3D0%26r_cop%3DTitle%26r_snpp%3D4%26r_spp%3D5%26qqn%3DYQ8-1sw%253A%26r_coid%3D239138%26r_aid%3D2E32FB5E04704089A65914067BB470A0%26rawto%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.marylandaviationmuseum.org%2Fpdf%2FModels.pdf&time=4911&pg=1

[Glen Felzien]

Here is a referance to the G.57 but it is in Italian. Hope someone can translate to determine if it is useful.

http://www.giemmesesto.org/settori/aerei/FiatG55s/G55s.html

[Glen Felzien]

The P 133 Piaggio

The follow-on version, called the P.133, had even more powerful P. XV engines and correspondingly greater range and bomb load. Defensive armament climbed to six 20mm cannon and three 12.7mm machine guns. The plane had not entered testing when the program reached an abrupt end.

http://www.avalanchepress.com/P108.php

[Glen Felzien]

The Ta-152H2

In honor of designer Kurt Tank, the Fw 190's designation was changed to Tank or Ta 152. This beautiful inline-engined fighter was to be the ultimate version of the famous fighter but delays resulted in the stopgap Fw 190D, in itself an outstanding aircraft. In the chaotic final year of the Third Reich the D ended up being the major inline engine version with only a few Ta 152Hs, and possibly a few Ta 152Cs, getting into combat.

The extended wing (14.5m), high altitude Ta 152H was indeed a sterling performer with a top speed of 755 km/h (472 mph) and a service ceiling of 15,000 m (49,215 ft). It was armed with a 30 mm cannon in the nose and two 20 mm cannon in the wing roots. Had it been built in enough numbers and been flown by expert pilots it could have taken its place alongside the Me 262 as a near unbeatable air superiority fighter and bomber killer. The lower altitude version, the Ta 152C, barely made it out of the test phase before the war ended. Between October 1944 and February 1945 when production ended, Focke-Wulf managed to roll 67 completed Ta 152 aircraft (H-0, H-1, and C-1 models) off the line. By the end of the war, more than 20,000 Fw 190s had been built; about one-third as fighter bombers.

http://www.aviation-history.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html

My wife is helping with the searches. We think the Japanese bought the plans. Will see if the H2 is Japanese.

[Glen Felzien]

Regarding the P39I Airacobra, are you sure it is an I model?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/bellp39.html

[Greyshaft]

Glen,
Thanks for the fast (and enthusiastic) reply. I have some of the information about each aircraft but am missing bits and pieces. Getting the FULL list of information about each aircraft is what I need. ie

* engine HP
* top speed
* bombload
* guns
* any interesting trivia

Your question about the Martin is quite relevent...which Martin is represented by the 'Martin' counter in WiF? I don't know the answer... which is why it is in the list.

[Glen Felzien]

What info do you have on the TBF-4 and 5? As far as I can tell, there where no madels of these numbers:

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/avenger.html

http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/TBF.html

The NorthropGrumman site shows a picture of the TBF-4 but damned if I can find anything.

LOL. I have found lots of pics with TBF-4,-5, and -6! Yet no stats. Where the pics miss labeled? Where they actually TBMs? Anyway here is another link with stats and histiry of all the TBF & TBM varients.

http://www.kotfsc.com/aviation/tbf.htm

Please note that all these links I have posted refer to either the details you are looking for or claim an end to their respective programs. Love to know what Harry's referances where! lol

I wonder if the WiF numbers eg TNF-4 or Ta-152H2 refer to the letter varients: Ta-152H2 could be Ta-152H-1

[Greyshaft]

This may make it easier. Each air unit description finishes with a sentance about * engine HP * top speed * bombload and * guns. I need to complete the following sentances.


G.57 Centauro: The Fiat G57's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

Ki-102d Otsu: The Ki-102d Otsu's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

Letov S528: The Letov S528's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

Macchi C.205N Orione: The Macchi C.205N Orione (Orion) was a high-altitude version of the C.205 Veltro with increased wing area. The Orione's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. There were two armaments available. The N-1 had one 20mm cannon and four 12.7mm machine guns while the N-2 had three 20mm cannon and two 12.7mm machine guns. Neither version was ever produced.

Martin: The Martin ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

P 133 Piaggio: The Piaggio P-133 was an improved version of the P108 bomber with 1,450hp engines giving it an estimated top speed of ???kph. Planned armament was ???. It never left the drawing board.

P.663: The P.663's hp ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

P-39I AiraCobra: The P-39I AiraCobra's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

Ta-152H2: The Ta-152H2's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

TBF-4: Post war development of the Avenger resulted in the Avenger AS Mk IV which were used as ASW aircraft in the Royal Navy until 1955 when they were replaced by the Fairey Gannet. The Avenger AS Mk IV's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was a torpedo or ???kg of bombs plus ??? machine guns

TBF-5: The TBF-5's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

Z.1024: The Z.1024's ???hp engine gave it a top speed of ???kph. Armament was ???kg of bombs plus ???mm machineguns.

[Froonp]

Martin

For the "Martins", the counters labelled Martin in WiF are all Dutch planes.
As far as I know, the only Martins the Dutch operated were Martin B-10 bombers, also named Martin 139WH-1, or Martin 139WH-2.

From the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list (who calls if a Martin 139) :

Engine HP : 2 x 750 HP.
Top speed : 340 km/h.
Bombload : 500 kg.
Guns : 3 x 7.62 MG defensive guns.
Any interesting trivia : US aircraft exported to the NEI.


Edit : Data from the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list added.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien
Here is a referance to the G.57 but it is in Italian. Hope someone can translate to determine if it is useful.
http://www.giemmesesto.org/settori/aerei/FiatG55s/G55s.html

This article talks about the G.55S, and basicaly says that the Italians were loooking for a light torpedo plane, and were considering the MC.205 & the G.55 for this, with a preference for the latter.
That the project was given to Fiat who was already working on such a design with the G.57.
That the Italian surrender somehow buried the project, and that it came back again in 1944 when some engineers worked on it. Nothing more on the G.57.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien

The Ta-152H2

In honor of designer Kurt Tank, the Fw 190's designation was changed to Tank or Ta 152. This beautiful inline-engined fighter was to be the ultimate version of the famous fighter but delays resulted in the stopgap Fw 190D, in itself an outstanding aircraft. In the chaotic final year of the Third Reich the D ended up being the major inline engine version with only a few Ta 152Hs, and possibly a few Ta 152Cs, getting into combat.

The extended wing (14.5m), high altitude Ta 152H was indeed a sterling performer with a top speed of 755 km/h (472 mph) and a service ceiling of 15,000 m (49,215 ft). It was armed with a 30 mm cannon in the nose and two 20 mm cannon in the wing roots. Had it been built in enough numbers and been flown by expert pilots it could have taken its place alongside the Me 262 as a near unbeatable air superiority fighter and bomber killer. The lower altitude version, the Ta 152C, barely made it out of the test phase before the war ended. Between October 1944 and February 1945 when production ended, Focke-Wulf managed to roll 67 completed Ta 152 aircraft (H-0, H-1, and C-1 models) off the line. By the end of the war, more than 20,000 Fw 190s had been built; about one-third as fighter bombers.

http://www.aviation-history.com/focke-wulf/fw190.html

My wife is helping with the searches. We think the Japanese bought the plans. Will see if the H2 is Japanese.

I think that the Ta152H-2 is simply an ADG extrapolation of what the Germans could have built as new fighters if the war has lasted more longer. With the Ta152H-1 already existing, it is logical to think that the Germans would have had an H-2 design to improve it, and an H-3, etc... maybe up to H-6 or H-10, if we look at the 109s series.
By the way, I think that the H is for "High Altitude Fighter" (it is a German word that I have not remembered).

About the Ta152H-2 being Japanese, I think it isn't as it would have been called something else (See the Mitsubishi J8M Shusui who is an Me163, the Nakajima J9Y Kikka who is some scaled down Me262 for the Navy and the Nakajima Ki-201 Karyu who is a copy of the Me262 for the Army).
When you look at Ta152H-2 in Google, you find a lot of pages in Japanese IMHO because the Japanese people are great fans of aviation, and there are lots of Japanese websites & books in Japanese, who are often richly detailed and talks about lots of unveiled planes.

[Froonp]

Regarding the P39I Airacobra, are you sure it is an I model?

There is no trace of a model "I" for a P-39 Airacobra.
However, by looking at the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list, they describe the P-39I as a plane having 1 x 20 mm cannon, 4 x .30 MG & 2 x .50 MG, which is exactly the armament of the export version for the British who was then diverted to the USSR, the Airacobra I (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p39.html).

So I guess that the P-39I is in reality the Airacobra I or the P-400 which are the same or close to the same.

Engine HP : 1325 HP.
Top speed : 592 km/h.
Bombload : 227 kg.
Guns : 1 x 20 mm cannon, 4 x .30 MG & 2 x .50 MG.
Any interesting trivia : Was originaly developped for the British who did not like it and gave it to the Russians (see http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p39.html).

Edit : Added a picture where you see the original British camouflage, serial number and markings.
Ivan Vasilevich Bochkov, 19 GvIAP

[Froonp]

G.57 Centauro

From the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list.

Engine HP : 1800 HP.
Top speed : 700 km/h.
Bombload : 0 kg (1 torpedo).
Guns : as the G.55.
Any interesting trivia : Never left the drawing board.

[Froonp]

Ki-102d Otsu

From the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list.

Engine HP : 2 x 1500 HP.
Top speed : 580 km/h.
Bombload : 500 kg.
Guns : 1 x AT 45 or 57 mm cannon, 2 x 20 mm cannons, 1 defensive 12.7 mm MG.
Any interesting trivia : Ground attack improvement of Ki-102b.

From : http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/g ... 02KAW.html :
The Ki.102 was a multi-purpose development of the Ki.96. It reverted to the two-seat configuration. The Ki.102-Ko interceptor was handicapped by its troublesome superchargers, but the Ki-102-Otsu was an excellent ground attack aircraft. The Ki-102-Hei night fighters, with long-span wings and a longer fuselage, and equipped with German radar, was still in development when WWII ended. Only 238 were built.

As a side note :
The letter sequence used for minor modifications are :
-a : Ko
-b : Otsu
-c : Hei
-d : Tei
-e : Bo
-f : Ki
-g : Ko
-h : Shin
-i : Jin
-j : Ki

So
Ki.102-Ko = Ki.102a
Ki-102-Otsu = Ki-102b
Ki-102-Hei = Ki-102c
Ki-102-Tei = Ki-102d

Note that there is no reference to a Ki-102d (Ki-102-Tei) having existed. It must be an improvement of the Ki-102b (Ki-102-Otsu), hence the name (Otsu which means -b) and the factors of the counter (who are close to the Ki-102b).

Edit : Added a picture.

[Froonp]

Letov S528

From the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list.

Engine HP : 800 HP.
Top speed : 330 km/h.
Bombload : 300 kg.
Guns : 4 x 7.62 mm guns.
Any interesting trivia : From the side profile I have and the PiF datas, it is an improvement of the S.328.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/R ... rev903.htm

[Froonp]

Macchi C.205N Orione

From the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list.

Engine HP : 1475 HP.
Top speed : 626 km/h.
Bombload : 320 kg.
Guns : 1 x 20 mm cannon, 4 x 12.7 mm guns.
Any interesting trivia : ?

No picture, nothing else.
Again a "What if" plane from ADG.

[Froonp]

P 133 Piaggio

No data in the original PiF rulebook & aircraft specifications list as it was not printed in this Kit.
No profile.
This is a "what if" plane from ADG, an improvement of the Piaggio P.108B bomber (Piaggio is the designer & manufacturer, not the surname, as Fiat is the designer & manufacturer of the G.55 and Centauro is its surname) as far as I can tell from the counter's factors and from the counter's top view drawing.

[Froonp]

P.663

This is a Potez plane.
The Wikipedia has an entry for a Potez 662, but no info.

The French designation system of the time leads me to think that it is a Potez P.66 version (as the P.630, P.631, P.632, P.633, P.637 and P.63.11 were versions of the P.63 design -- a twin engined fighter).

I found something about the Potez P.66 in a French document about the P.840 (http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/potez840.pdf) :
Potez 66 n° 3 (1938).
Construit par la SNCAN à deux exemplaires, le Potez 66, quadrimoteur de transport pour douze
passagers est le premier quadrimoteur Potez. Cet appareil n’a pas intéressé Air France, qui lui a
préféré le Bloch 160 pour trente-trois passagers.

Translation :
The Potez 66 is a 4-engined transport plane for 12 passengers, and it is the first 4-engined plane built by Potez. 2 planes were built by the SNCAN, but this plane did not interest Air France who preferd the Bloch 160 for 33 passengers.