Is the "training" command any good for a/c?

[Nikademus]

Duck season!

[Terminus]

Wabbit season!

[Nikademus]

Duck Season!

[bradfordkay]

" i couldn't care less if my supply carrying pilots were experienced or not, honestly..."


I would. A less experienced pilot is more likely to get lost or crack up that expensive and valuable transport aircraft I just entrusted to his care. That seriously increases operational losses, giving me fewer aircraft to perform the numerous jobs needed, as well as valuable victory points to my enemy.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Personally, I think the pilot experience system is a bit broken. Gaming the system by putting units on constant strafing and bombing runs is ridiculous. Even more so, is having bomber pilots gain experience by putting them on supply runs for the sole purpose of running up their experience.

Beginning pilot experience should be about 50. They should only gain experience from real air to air combat, in the case of bombers on real front line bombing missions. Players are always complaining about unrealistic situations. An unrealistic situation is two fighter groups with pilots all in the 80s experience range going at one another. If this were realistic, air groups would have a couple pilots in the high 70s or 80s and most in the upeer 50s.

Agree 100%.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Personally, I think the pilot experience system is a bit broken. Gaming the system by putting units on constant strafing and bombing runs is ridiculous. Even more so, is having bomber pilots gain experience by putting them on supply runs for the sole purpose of running up their experience.

Beginning pilot experience should be about 50. They should only gain experience from real air to air combat, in the case of bombers on real front line bombing missions. Players are always complaining about unrealistic situations. An unrealistic situation is two fighter groups with pilots all in the 80s experience range going at one another. If this were realistic, air groups would have a couple pilots in the high 70s or 80s and most in the upeer 50s.

The reason you see so many highly-trained pilots is twofold: the starting values are too high, and training proceeds too fast. Unless the code is changed (doubtful) the thing to do is scale back all pilot values (severely) to start a scenario. A beginning floor value of 50 is pretty much where the game is now, and it ought to be clear that helps lead fast to false play.

[Mr.Frag]

Personally, I think the pilot experience system is a bit broken. Gaming the system by putting units on constant strafing and bombing runs is ridiculous. Even more so, is having bomber pilots gain experience by putting them on supply runs for the sole purpose of running up their experience.

Another one of them *player* actions ... any system ever built can be gamed ... some people consider it fun to do so ... others do not ... find someone to play that fits in the same group as you and you can have fun together.

The exp gain was watered down to make this type of activity not terribly rewarding a couple of times, but sooner or later to get to the point that watering it down further results in negating the entire thing. You can't stop people who game the system with code.

[1275psi]

Actually as a glider pilot, i feel that the ground attack training gain in experience is very valid

Every flight improves your skill, every hr in the air improves your skill

Ground attack -for fighters especially -involves considerable skill -just to avoid hitting things.
Flying in formation takes practice -even the art of navigation takes practice.

Finally -training simulates the supplies and effort needed to bring squadrons online -and the player who tries harder -does better.
far better than some abstract -oh goody, another 100 pilots today.

lots of critism about, but has anyone got a better way to abstract the effort required, the supplies required, the losses expected to experince while training?

Leave training alone
It works very well.

[pauk]

while i agree with Amiral, i must add that Japan player don't have other chance than train his pilots with ground/airfield attack. I do it and have self-limited house rule to not attack empty enemy bases.

Since we all know that air losses are, in most games, very big (not want to go into debate why is that) and pool is very limited, Japan player will found in situation in April or even earlier he haven't got pilots other than recruits. And that's happend even if opponent playing Sir Robin (you know, ops losses - i'm considering myself as air fanboy no matter how i careful with pilots cant have less than 80 per moth).

And even this method of training it's not going to help Japan player against experience opponent - Corsairs will eat them for the breakfast.

so i'm with 1275psi, if A2A combat isn't going to change/tweak etc... leave the training alone too...

[Sneer]

me too
I try to fly over occupied bases i.e. chinase
but I have constant thunderstorms in all China theater - what grounds my air units for 25 days per month so it is not enough
and yes with so bloody A2A combat it is needed to deliver more pilots to front who would have 50 not 22-25 exp
I would gladly have a kind of bar which would show how many planes/fuel/supply you want to use on pilot training program ( and I have planty of fuel/supply and planes) and to what exp I want to bring them and it calculates expenditures based on number of pilots needed.
Good supply situation and much more bloody air combat would force reaction of Japan HQ - players simulate this by burning their supplies for silly missions that's all
let's assume i want to recruit twice the number of army pilots available now - I have supply and want to spend it
what's wrong in it?

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Sneer
I have supply and want to spend it
what's wrong in it?

Before Ron answer that question i will jump in - to much supply[:D]

[Sneer]

all oil & resource facilities were taken in good shape
second - blitzkrieg allows lower consumption of supply than longer campaigns
I managed to take more resource centers / as well as HI / than in history so I have more available supply
so it is not an argument for me
I have more than IRL and I want to spend it on pilot program

[1275psi]

i think Ron has not enough information (yes i know he's testing) to state categorically - "too much supply"
try a game where a few resource centres get damaged -Im playing a game where palembang was captured 100% damaged -im having a fine time - not - trying to juggle supply.

And before anyone says it wont effect training pilots -It is for me -I have to every turn try to send some supply to my training bases -just to keep a limited number of planes flying.
and i have to choose -send supplies to the front -or supplies to the rear areas?

Thats why i say training via ground attack is very,very valid, in 2 games i have its train, or stockpile.

[Sneer]

I consider supply management as major skill in this game as Japan and if sb is able to create steady surplus supply than he should be awarded with better pilot - that's all

[pauk]

hey, i was only joking... I'm a Japan player and know situation about supply....

[1275psi]

OK, no problems then!

Just a question - early to mid 43 - just how many bases on map do you (as japan) have with more than 20000 supplies -ie bases you can recieve replacements from?

Im down to 5 -total -for the whole Map[8|]

[pauk]

i'm entering in May 42 - total supply is 2.4 million so it means that i don't have too much supply.

Of course, i'm building forts, AFs, expanding some industry (ac engines) but captured majority resource/oil centers intact - only Palembang has to be repaired for 100 oil i think.

I can look into game when my turn arrive, but i think i've got 4 bases with 20+ K supply...

[Sneer]

after rebuilding industry
taking East india
building heavily engines / airframes /armament and many more
building crucial bases to heavy forts I have 2.7 Mil. in 6/42
10-12 bases have over 20k

[DDLAfan]

Here we go again.

You can't have sensible training regimes without having sensible A2A loss regimes AND historical base stacking restrictions. Remember when this game first came out, and Mogami had posted this "how to" as far as pilot training for Japan? Basically, you have a training unit in Japan which trains for six months, and breaks down and feeds its trained pilots into frontline air units. With how the A2A losses are modeled in WITP, who in the heck can afford to leave half their air units in Japan for six months training while frontline units are getting shot down in only a few days of fighting? Even then they only get up to mid-fifties in EXP. If I did that, by late 1942 my air units EXP would mirror what you get out of the pool (30-40 for IJN and 20-30 for IJA). The designers of the game have reinforcing air units in 1943 as average 60 EXP for IJN and 55 for IJA. I couldn't even make that. It's like skipping 1943 and going straight to 44. Does that sound right? It doesn't to me.

[1275psi]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

after rebuilding industry
taking East india
building heavily engines / airframes /armament and many more
building crucial bases to heavy forts I have 2.7 Mil. in 6/42
10-12 bases have over 20k

I worship you oh japanese war god!
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