Will Chungking Hold? Place your bets!

[RUPD3658]

Got a 2:1 at Chungking with a deliberate assault. Now I am kicking myself for not shock attacking. If either of the last 2 attacks got a 1:1 and lowered the forts, this would have been the fatal blow. Hopefully this is just a speed bump on the way to final victory, but the fact that the Allies now have a lvl 5 AF within range of Changsha worries me.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/25/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 799093 troops, 5217 guns, 1485 vehicles, Assault Value = 10011

Defending force 248613 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8373

Japanese max assault: 9661 - adjusted assault: 2750

Allied max defense: 6786 - adjusted defense: 1129

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0


Japanese ground losses:
46263 casualties reported
Guns lost 155
Vehicles lost 43

Allied ground losses:
5590 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/26/44


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 731872 troops, 4791 guns, 808 vehicles, Assault Value = 6675

Defending force 240336 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7939

Japanese max assault: 2398 - adjusted assault: 1727

Allied max defense: 6397 - adjusted defense: 1129 Exactly the same depite the lower fort level

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0


Japanese ground losses:
17321 casualties reported
Guns lost 32
Vehicles lost 45

Allied ground losses:
2426 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Stange that the adjusted Allied AV was the same on day 2 as day 1 despite the losses and fort reduction.

[KDonovan]

w/ Tainan....a level 5 airbase (w/ 100,000+ supplies) in my hands, Changsha, the major supply hub of the CEA is my crossheirs. I probably only have a turn or 2 to hopefully knock out enough supply at Changsha to put the attacking army at Chungking in the red. The question is....whats the best course of action for my bombers.....

a) hit the airfields at Changsha
b) or hit the resource/HI centers

comments and suggestions will be appreciated

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

nope, they don't cancel out. both benefit from prep but the defender benefits more if both sides have the same # of prep points.

Hmmm... not sure i fully understand this. i thought 100% prep doubled the AV of the unit... is this not true?

It's assumed to do so, but in tests i ran using two units, at various levels of prep on a base with no fort levels, equal exp and equal leaders, when both sides had equal prep points , the defender won each time, even accounting for variables that caused shifts in the adjusted AV. So while there was the usual GG "Stretch" of the results, the majority of results were consistant with defender advantage.

After trying to analyze land combat in China a bit more, i had this thought:

Since the defenders artillery should (theoretically) be more effective against an attacker (who is in the open and thus knock down the attacker's AV more than the defender's AV would be knocked down by the attacker's arty), if one removed all artillery would the AV due to prep be essentially equal.

My thought is that artillery will really knock the starch out of an attack (i.e. the same artillery on both sides would favor the defender, and that this would account for the differences in adjusted AV during the attack.)

[heenanc]

How did it do???

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: heenanc

How did it do???

Chungking still holds!!

Check out the "Battle for New Jersey AAR" - American air power is now pounding the IJA in China and slowing down the drive to take Chungking (which is now at 0 forts!!)

[RUPD3658]

Check back in about a week. Despite the fact that most of the Chinese indusrty that I did not bomb is now being bombed by the Allies, I should have enough left for one all or nothing attack.

[RUPD3658]

Chungking fell after nearly 2 years of seige. Bizare thing is that after the base fell and 400K troops surrendered there was abattle of day 2 with 270K troops that do not appear on the map. May be a bug.

When I get a chance I will write an article on the lessons I learned.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/12/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 814572 troops, 5281 guns, 986 vehicles, Assault Value = 14964

Defending force 249927 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8213

Japanese max assault: 29286 - adjusted assault: 6101

Allied max defense: 6666 - adjusted defense: 1013

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chungking base !!!



Allied aircraft
no flights


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
103301 casualties reported
Guns lost 700
Vehicles lost 94

Allied ground losses:
440838 casualties reported
Guns lost 7
Vehicles lost 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/13/44


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

No idea where these troops came from. None are spotted on the map.

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 714926 troops, 4669 guns, 882 vehicles, Assault Value = 8513

Defending force 270725 troops, 1462 guns, 23 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese max assault: 5830 - adjusted assault: 1143

Allied max defense: 5867 - adjusted defense: 2065

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
36726 casualties reported
Guns lost 236
Vehicles lost 44

Allied ground losses:
3027 casualties reported
Guns lost 220

[Mike Solli]

That's interesting.  Are you sure all the Chinese units units surrendered on day 1?  If any survived, that may have caused the combat on day 2.

[USSAmerica]

Maybe the new Chinese units were respawning, and happened to arrive the turn you captured the base?

[String]

I had the same thing happen. Those are the respawning chinese units i guess, they dont appear on the map but they affect the zones of control and moving to and from the hex. You can also attack them for little to no effect.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: String

I had the same thing happen. Those are the respawning chinese units i guess, they dont appear on the map but they affect the zones of control and moving to and from the hex. You can also attack them for little to no effect.

OK - so even though Chungking has fallen, there are about a quarter of million Chinese still fighting in the hex... and if the IJA moves off, guess who will have Chungking back again... so perhaps any plans RUPD had to move those troops to other places may have to be put on hold! [X(]

[String]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: String

I had the same thing happen. Those are the respawning chinese units i guess, they dont appear on the map but they affect the zones of control and moving to and from the hex. You can also attack them for little to no effect.

OK - so even though Chungking has fallen, there are about a quarter of million Chinese still fighting in the hex... and if the IJA moves off, guess who will have Chungking back again... so perhaps any plans RUPD had to move those troops to other places may have to be put on hold! [X(]

No actually they are phantom units, they cant take chunking back as the allied player cannot give orders to them.

[RUPD3658]

We are truning on combat animatiosn to find out who they are. Must be repawned troops since they have guns and vehicles. None were left at Chungking.

[RUPD3658]

Yep, it's a bug. No units are listed as being at Chungking:

[Historiker]

That's HQ
They don't appear but don't surrender immediately - as is my experiece.