WAW update and notes

[PDiFolco]

Rgarding Campaign of France I've read several discutable statements here : first, the bulk of the French army was NOT in the Maginot Line. Maginot Line was manned by mostly reserve divisions, and the main French army rushed to Belgium when Germany invaded it.
Then the Germans stroke in the middle of these two "theaters", cutting the forces in Belgium, and the Maginot units were unable to oppose the breakthrough.
So I don't think we need special rules for defending or not the Maginot Line, the problem are the forces that went to Belgium, properly used they could have opposed seriously the Wehrmacht. But they suffered anyway for poor leadership, poor logistics, no motorization, and the Luftwaffe controlled the air.
That said, the interest of a wargame is to see what *could* have happened with different strategies, I don't like the idea of channelling the player to behave "historically", it kills the fun.
 

[freeboy]

well, in both the tomtest and xbx mod of this there is a card each for no axis blitz French prepardness, and no Vichy.. each costing pp

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

Rgarding Campaign of France I've read several discutable statements here : first, the bulk of the French army was NOT in the Maginot Line. Maginot Line was manned by mostly reserve divisions, and the main French army rushed to Belgium when Germany invaded it.
Then the Germans stroke in the middle of these two "theaters", cutting the forces in Belgium, and the Maginot units were unable to oppose the breakthrough.
So I don't think we need special rules for defending or not the Maginot Line, the problem are the forces that went to Belgium, properly used they could have opposed seriously the Wehrmacht. But they suffered anyway for poor leadership, poor logistics, no motorization, and the Luftwaffe controlled the air.

You are right about the history...but IMO wrong in concluding that nothing needs be done about the Maginot line in AT - because the French forces in the Maginot line are not immobile fortress units - there is no difference between them and "normal units" - they are as mobile as "first line" troops are, and have as good readiness, supply, etc..

Another possible option might be to give the French a "fortress garrison" SFT which has no mobility, low offensive capability, but a very high defence factor.

Australians

And New Zealanders please

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

...
And New Zealanders please

Well.... Kiwi-land is not on the map![:D] Draw me a new map and I'll add them....

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

...
And New Zealanders please

Well.... Kiwi-land is not on the map![:D] Draw me a new map and I'll add them....

I will look again, actually I believe one of the Islands is there just misshapen. But there is no production from there.

[Barthheart]

Ok, I added just the northern tip of the North Island and put Auckland on it. Not quite right but good enough. Now to add the Kiwi's as a people.

[gingerbread]

If you are fixing islands on the map, you might as well consider these as well:

Crete
Corsica
Ballearics
Bornholm
Gottland

and why not also add Iceland (with a very small garrison)...

g

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

If you are fixing islands on the map, you might as well consider these as well:

Crete
Corsica
Ballearics
Bornholm
Gottland

and why not also add Iceland (with a very small garrison)...

g

Crete - gave to Greeks
Corsica - made French
Ballearics - assume you mean off Spainish coast - made Spainish
Bornholm & Gottland - assume you mean off Swedish coast - are these Swedish? If so will change.

Iceland - is way up north off the map... kind of out of the picture.... so probably not.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

If you are fixing islands on the map, you might as well consider these as well:

Crete
Corsica
Ballearics
Bornholm
Gottland

and why not also add Iceland (with a very small garrison)...

g

wasn't Iceland important waypoint for ferrying bombers from us to England? Or is that not needed in this scenario.

Rick

(Have to admit - I haven't played it yet just when I get ready to, seems like someone is changing something).

[gingerbread]

Bornholm (54,11) currently Ge --> Denmark --> Allied Minors
Gottland (57,7&8) currently Su --> Sweden --> Neutrals

Also, ~half of New Guinea (west part) should be Dutch --> Allied Minors, but since that would be west when Pacific goes live, so to say, it does not matter that much - needs house rules in any case.

g

[freeboy]

Rick, Iceland Greanland Brazil Azores etc could be added, BUT as a workaround I just build alot of cargo ships and ferry the planes via hq transfers..
But I do think the mid atlantic stpping point should be included and be heavily  fortified as to not allow axis to take it, or simply use an event to stop them from wantingtoo ala theus activation if enemy enters the north american area..

[Barthheart]

I was just looking at adding Greenland and Icland to the map at the edges with an airbase for ferrying. Since planes only have a range of 10 hexes, you'd have to fly from Toronto to Goose Bay (new airbase in Labrador) to Greenland to Iceland to Ireland to London. That's 5 turns, months, to get from Canada to England. Seems like a long time.... but it's safer than strategic transfer or SFT transfer or cargo shipped across the ocean...

Opinions?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

I was just looking at adding Greenland and Icland to the map at the edges with an airbase for ferrying. Since planes only have a range of 10 hexes, you'd have to fly from Toronto to Goose Bay (new airbase in Labrador) to Greenland to Iceland to Ireland to London. That's 5 turns, months, to get from Canada to England. Seems like a long time.... but it's safer than strategic transfer or SFT transfer or cargo shipped across the ocean...

Opinions?

You could take a slight liberty with the map projection and place Reykjavik (Iceland) in 15,8. This would allow a single transfer from Toronto, and Boston, to Reykjavik, and another single transfer from Reykjavik to either Plymouth or Dublin. Keep in mind that air SFT transfers and unit movements are at double the movement rate, so a 20 hex range is what you're looking at, for the hops.

Also, in the winter, the range would be reduced by readiness losses, if Iceland is in the northern zone, so it might be a good idea to make it non-northern for purposes of transfers. The SFT transfers would be unaffected in the Toronto and Boston jump offs, so long as freshly built SFT's are transferred out each turn, since they always start with 100 AP's.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

...unit movements are at double the movement rate, so a 20 hex range is what you're looking at, for the hops.
...

DOH! Your're right. Air units use half AP when moving instead of performing a mission. That will make it much easier and faster.

Thanks James.

[PDiFolco]

Re Maginot line : I suggest the Line be manned by special "Fort garrison" SFTypes with hiiiigh Entrench ability, plus some second-grade standard infantry.

As for Air ranges they should be cut seriously given the map scale : 10 hexes is like 1000km (France N-S is 1000 km and 10 hexes on the map) , in early war fighter range was a third or even a quarter of that, even by end of war I'm not sure they could go from S England to Berlin (12-13 hexes) - only bombers could.

[freeboy]

Ranges are goofy at this scale, no weapones could shoot 100 miles.. or more two hex save the v series of terror weapons.. and forturnately the germans having discovered a toxic nerve gas never used it ...
So
Art and aa range two is WAY off, you want historical accuraccy, double the size of the maps and leave the ground forces pretty myuch as they are , then use bi monthly turns

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Ranges are goofy at this scale, no weapones could shoot 100 miles.. or more two hex save the v series of terror weapons.. and forturnately the germans having discovered a toxic nerve gas never used it ...
So
Art and aa range two is WAY off, you want historical accuraccy, double the size of the maps and leave the ground forces pretty myuch as they are , then use bi monthly turns

Wrong thought process. The land units are not fighting 100 miles apart, nor are the naval. The attacker would move to engage the defender, if the attacker wins he can keep the space, if he loses he can not take the defenders space. They have closed to range to engage. Standard concept in all strategic games.

The air ranges are probably wrong. As pointed out they could not fly the distances we can now. In the early years 300 miles was a stretch for most fighters. And even later they were not going more than about 1000. A few exceptions existed but they had other glaring problems ( Zero was a death trap if someone fired on it)

[tweber]

I just uploaded a new test version.  3 changes:
 
- Added Iceland, Azores, Bermuda, and New Zealand.  They all have airbases so you should be able to ferry across the Atlantic.
- Made a new unit called fortress troops.  They are manning the maginot line.  They are terrible on offense, terrible outside of fortress / urban / fortifications.  In forts, they are very tough.  They are also difficult to move and have low mobility.
- Tokyo and the Japanese fleet is separate from Japan until the Japanese play the major offensive card.  This should make Japan move survivable in the early years.

[freeboy]

I just lost all my supplies once Germany played its Blitz card.. None of my Jap factories produced ANY supplies, and the stockpile went to Zero.. whats up with that?

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: tweber

I just uploaded a new test version. 3 changes:

- Added Iceland, Azores, Bermuda, and New Zealand. They all have airbases so you should be able to ferry across the Atlantic.
- Made a new unit called fortress troops. They are manning the maginot line. They are terrible on offense, terrible outside of fortress / urban / fortifications. In forts, they are very tough. They are also difficult to move and have low mobility.
- Tokyo and the Japanese fleet is separate from Japan until the Japanese play the major offensive card. This should make Japan move survivable in the early years.

I must be missing something. How does removing Japan's largest city and her fleets help her survive? If you do not get the fleets until the offense card how do you move those fleets into position to attack Pearl harbor when you play the card?

No supplies and no fleets is not a help if I understand this right.