Future Directions - Data Content
Moderators: Panther Paul, Arjuna
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
At one point I believe their where already teams that were working on the East front and another on Africa....this was pre BftB....I think Dave is tied up with t emilitary and I expect no work on a new game for awhile yet....
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
There were meant to be five Data Design Teams - East Front, West Front, Med, Pacific and Modern. I'm not sure if that's still the case.
-
KEYSTONE07950
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:05 pm
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
ORIGINAL: parmenio
There were meant to be five Data Design Teams - East Front, West Front, Med, Pacific and Modern. I'm not sure if that's still the case.
Arjuna:
Are East Front doctrines and establishments being worked on?
I support the right to arm bears!
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
No, not at the moment.
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Think people need to realise that the CO engine is on hold until the military deal finishes....
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
ORIGINAL: WriterJWA
I would also LOVE to see a game like this set in Vietnam. I think that Vietnam lends itself well to this type of game and is also only lightly touched on in the computer gaming world. There isn't a single solely-Vietnam-era game in the Matrix catalog. I own Squad Battles: Vietnam and it's alright, but a little lacking, IMHO.
TOAW. But it's mixed bag.
Campaign Series modern is on the way (it has Vietnam and Middle East).
Think people need to realise that the CO engine is on hold until the military deal finishes....
That's good. Then they might just make a modern combat setting based on what they have done for the military to really beat those ProSim games.
Helicopter assualts would be interesting if their modeled (also applicable for Vietnam).
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
It would be great if you could add few early war battles (1939-40). More I read about these battles, more I'm convinced that Germans weren't that invincible. So allied player have a change to change history. 
Battles
Low countries and France 1940
Battle of Hannut (12-14 May)
Clash of the panzer and French armored divisions. This was the largest tank battles fought in the West. And guess what!?! French kicked Germans on this battle. Awesome example that French tanks were superior and also commanders knew how to use them.
"Hoepner's Panzer Corps and Prioux' Cavalry clashed head-on near Hannut, Belgium, on 12 May. Contrary to popular belief, the Germans did not outnumber the French.[89] Frequently, figures of 623 German and 415 French tanks are given.[89] The German 3rd and 4th Panzer Divisions numbered 280 and 343 respectively.[89] The 2e DLM and 3e DLM numbered 176 Somuas and 239 Hotchkiss H35s.[89] Added to this force were the considerable number of Renault AMR-ZT-63s in the Cavalry Corps. The R35 was equal or superior to the Panzer I and Panzer IIs in armament terms.[89] This applies all the more to the 90 Panhard 178 armoured cars of the French Army. Its 25mm main gun could penetrate the armour of the Panzer IV. In terms of tanks that were capable of engaging and surviving a tank-vs-tank action, the Germans possessed just 73 Panzer IIIs and 52 Panzer IVs.[89] The French had 176 SOMUA and 239 Hotchkisses.[89] German tank units also contained 486 Panzer I and IIs, which were of dubious combat value given their losses in the Polish Campaign." Wikipedia Battle of Belgium
Battle of Rotterdam (10-14 May)
German fallschirmjägers were dropped to seize bridges. Dutch forces almost annihilated German paratroopers. This would be perfect for Command Ops. Back to the airborne battles.
North Africa
A lot of battles and both sides can be attacker depending the time. This would be great too.
Battles
Low countries and France 1940
Battle of Hannut (12-14 May)
Clash of the panzer and French armored divisions. This was the largest tank battles fought in the West. And guess what!?! French kicked Germans on this battle. Awesome example that French tanks were superior and also commanders knew how to use them.
"Hoepner's Panzer Corps and Prioux' Cavalry clashed head-on near Hannut, Belgium, on 12 May. Contrary to popular belief, the Germans did not outnumber the French.[89] Frequently, figures of 623 German and 415 French tanks are given.[89] The German 3rd and 4th Panzer Divisions numbered 280 and 343 respectively.[89] The 2e DLM and 3e DLM numbered 176 Somuas and 239 Hotchkiss H35s.[89] Added to this force were the considerable number of Renault AMR-ZT-63s in the Cavalry Corps. The R35 was equal or superior to the Panzer I and Panzer IIs in armament terms.[89] This applies all the more to the 90 Panhard 178 armoured cars of the French Army. Its 25mm main gun could penetrate the armour of the Panzer IV. In terms of tanks that were capable of engaging and surviving a tank-vs-tank action, the Germans possessed just 73 Panzer IIIs and 52 Panzer IVs.[89] The French had 176 SOMUA and 239 Hotchkisses.[89] German tank units also contained 486 Panzer I and IIs, which were of dubious combat value given their losses in the Polish Campaign." Wikipedia Battle of Belgium
Battle of Rotterdam (10-14 May)
German fallschirmjägers were dropped to seize bridges. Dutch forces almost annihilated German paratroopers. This would be perfect for Command Ops. Back to the airborne battles.
North Africa
A lot of battles and both sides can be attacker depending the time. This would be great too.
El Savior
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
ORIGINAL: El Savior
North Africa
A lot of battles and both sides can be attacker depending the time. This would be great too.
Conquest of the Aegean has a few (two or three?) North Africa scenarios already. In addition there are some made by the Prince of Eckmühl which can be downloaded as well.
I've just finishing Operation Battleaxe at the moment [:)]
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
My vote goes to the Eastern Front. It was the decisive theater of WWII, after all.
But more than that, in terms of data what I would most like to see would be some sort of campaigns, with your troops carrying over from one scenario to the next (I really miss the mega campaigns for Steel Panthers). I remember reading a pre release AAR when a dev (or was it a tester) reached the 'map edge', the end goal of the scenario, a few days before schedule. He then noted that this was one of the problems with isolated scenarios, had the Germans reached their goal ahead of time, they would have kept pushing forwards, instead of preparing for the Allied counterattack.
But more than that, in terms of data what I would most like to see would be some sort of campaigns, with your troops carrying over from one scenario to the next (I really miss the mega campaigns for Steel Panthers). I remember reading a pre release AAR when a dev (or was it a tester) reached the 'map edge', the end goal of the scenario, a few days before schedule. He then noted that this was one of the problems with isolated scenarios, had the Germans reached their goal ahead of time, they would have kept pushing forwards, instead of preparing for the Allied counterattack.
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
ORIGINAL: El Savior
It would be great if you could add few early war battles (1939-40). More I read about these battles, more I'm convinced that Germans weren't that invincible. So allied player have a change to change history.
A Command Ops game with a 1939-1940 setting would be a instant buy for me !
So many great and interesting battles that have been unattended for far too long...
-
KEYSTONE07950
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:05 pm
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Regarding Russian - German Front:
I've read in this forum that a Russian/German game or expansion is being worked on. Will the setting be the Chir River battles as was talked about several years ago? I know Mellenthin's retelling of this engagement. I was never sure if his account was accurate or was the usual post war German officer's attempt to show that the tactical superiority of the German army was only defeated by "Soviet Hordes".
While Russian grand tactical (operational) performance improved over the course of the war, the Germans's deteriorated. Will that be addressed in this release?
I've read in this forum that a Russian/German game or expansion is being worked on. Will the setting be the Chir River battles as was talked about several years ago? I know Mellenthin's retelling of this engagement. I was never sure if his account was accurate or was the usual post war German officer's attempt to show that the tactical superiority of the German army was only defeated by "Soviet Hordes".
While Russian grand tactical (operational) performance improved over the course of the war, the Germans's deteriorated. Will that be addressed in this release?
I support the right to arm bears!
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Re East Front title. Yes it will cover the Chir River battles. In a game like ours which only covers such a small time slice it is impossible for us to address issues that only pan out over the course of the entire war. What we will be focusing on is the different doctrines used between the two sides. At this time of the wat late 42/early 43 the Soviet offensive doctrine was in its infancy. They made heaps of mistakes and paid the price in high casualties. That's just an historical fact. They learnt from these mistakes and a year later were a significantly more potent offensive army./ I am sure that once we focus on alater period battle, then yes we will see better soviet doctrine and more importantly better execution, judgement and performance.
-
KEYSTONE07950
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:05 pm
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Arjuna:
Your attention to historic doctrine is the main reason I have purchased RDOA, HTR, COTA, & BFTB. My only request for "eye candy" would be 3-D terrain, which both looks nice and would be VERY FUNCTIONAL AT THIS SCALE.
Looking forward to Destroying The Fascist Beasts on the river Chir.
Your attention to historic doctrine is the main reason I have purchased RDOA, HTR, COTA, & BFTB. My only request for "eye candy" would be 3-D terrain, which both looks nice and would be VERY FUNCTIONAL AT THIS SCALE.
Looking forward to Destroying The Fascist Beasts on the river Chir.
I support the right to arm bears!
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Will doctrine be hard coded in a certain module, or will it be something that can be influenced by scenario designers?
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Good question, hopefully the latter with a new moddable attribute.ORIGINAL: springel
Will doctrine be hard coded in a certain module, or will it be something that can be influenced by scenario designers?
simovitch
-
KEYSTONE07950
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:05 pm
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
ORIGINAL: simovitch
Good question, hopefully the latter with a new moddable attribute.ORIGINAL: springel
Will doctrine be hard coded in a certain module, or will it be something that can be influenced by scenario designers?
The implications for moddable doctrines are mind blowing. This will open up the heart of the engine for editing.
I support the right to arm bears!
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Thanks Richard. [8|]ORIGINAL: simovitch
Good question, hopefully the latter with a new moddable attribute.ORIGINAL: springel
Will doctrine be hard coded in a certain module, or will it be something that can be influenced by scenario designers?
I think in the first cut we'll just settle for hard coding in different doctrine. I'll see what we can do to allow the scenario designer to set the doctrines used by each side. In other words, we may have a number of different attack doctrine options ( eg fix and flank, double envelopment, frontal assault, penetrate and encircle ) and the scenario designer could say which of these would be available to a side, nation or service. But the actual functionality of each option would be hard coded. It's far too complex to open that up at this stage.
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
Owning all three recent games and actually still playing the RDOA demo, I can say that I will purchase the HTTR expansion pack when it is released, but…
I hope I don’t get flamed for this…
You guys need to step away from the Western Front and branch out, perhaps to a different war altogether.
First, this game engine would rock simulating a US/Soviet campaign in Germany in the mid-late 80’s to mirror all of the plethora of information concerning what could have been WWIII.
Other thoughts that would open my wallet are:
The Vietnam War
WWII – Marines and Army against Imperial Japan in the Pacific Theater
WWII – Germans versus the Russian in the rinsed-and-repeated Eastern Front
To an extent I suppose you gents are enjoying some economy of scale in that with all of the games based on German/British/American units, you could in theory reuse much of the information gathered from research to create the Estabs, with the notable exception being the Italian forces introduced in COTA.
To that extent, even a Korean War effort could be more cost-effective then say the Vietnam War since more WWII equipment was used in Korea as opposed to Vietnam.
At any rate the game is great, but getting long in the tooth in terms of the subject matter covered. Step out of your comfort zone and make a product in which you can release the base game (say 15 scenarios for $49.99) then shovel out quarterly mission packs to expand on that campaign (historical and hypothetical) for $14.99 each which can be installed out of sequence to the base game.
I hope I don’t get flamed for this…
You guys need to step away from the Western Front and branch out, perhaps to a different war altogether.
First, this game engine would rock simulating a US/Soviet campaign in Germany in the mid-late 80’s to mirror all of the plethora of information concerning what could have been WWIII.
Other thoughts that would open my wallet are:
The Vietnam War
WWII – Marines and Army against Imperial Japan in the Pacific Theater
WWII – Germans versus the Russian in the rinsed-and-repeated Eastern Front
To an extent I suppose you gents are enjoying some economy of scale in that with all of the games based on German/British/American units, you could in theory reuse much of the information gathered from research to create the Estabs, with the notable exception being the Italian forces introduced in COTA.
To that extent, even a Korean War effort could be more cost-effective then say the Vietnam War since more WWII equipment was used in Korea as opposed to Vietnam.
At any rate the game is great, but getting long in the tooth in terms of the subject matter covered. Step out of your comfort zone and make a product in which you can release the base game (say 15 scenarios for $49.99) then shovel out quarterly mission packs to expand on that campaign (historical and hypothetical) for $14.99 each which can be installed out of sequence to the base game.
RE: Future Directions - Data Content
No you wont get flamed..we have an EF title coming so thats cool.
As for modern warfare I'd be kind of interested in a cold war gets hot scenario. However I'd not buy any modern war game like Arab Israeli War or Gulf war etc, I only bough CMSF because it's at my favourite scale.
Korea I'd be interested in as it's a fair old war thats overlooked.
Many games at this scale have problems with Jungle warfare which is best I suppose at a low level tactical level. So I wouldn't buy a Pacific or Vietnam game, as I feel the engine wouldn't work well to be honest.
I'd be interested in a WW1 game...though the code for routing would definitely have to be overhauled totally to replicate that war. Also maybe it would work ebtter at platoon level.
As for modern warfare I'd be kind of interested in a cold war gets hot scenario. However I'd not buy any modern war game like Arab Israeli War or Gulf war etc, I only bough CMSF because it's at my favourite scale.
Korea I'd be interested in as it's a fair old war thats overlooked.
Many games at this scale have problems with Jungle warfare which is best I suppose at a low level tactical level. So I wouldn't buy a Pacific or Vietnam game, as I feel the engine wouldn't work well to be honest.
I'd be interested in a WW1 game...though the code for routing would definitely have to be overhauled totally to replicate that war. Also maybe it would work ebtter at platoon level.