Get rid of fuel

[Data]

this combined with newer fuel cells that store more fuel, energy collectors for static energy....the game has plenty of solutions for this

[cmdrnarrain]

I don't think a slider is the answer to this problem.  The short version is that I find it annoying when my ships don't do what I want them to do.  Maybe a button to shoot the captain and replace him with someone who will let his tanks run dry to get the job done.  A sorta of do it or else button, just kidding. 
 
I do believe current fuel system needs to be reviewed, old hands will find work arounds... new players will just quit.

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ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

I do believe current fuel system needs to be reviewed, old hands will find work arounds... new players will just quit.

I'm a new player and I'm loving it. I'm not new to 4x games, maybe this has something to do with it, but searching through this forum I see many examples of new players that had a problem with fuel management.....I still see them on the forum, loving the game.

Anyway, 4x games and DW in particular are not supposed to be that easy...maybe this is way we are a niche now; but that's not a limitation of us and certainly not of DW.

[Lord_Astraios]

Try the Empire setting and set the fleet attack setting for refuel to 0 and see what happens,  i havent tried it since i have my ships to refuel when tanks go at 25%.

[currierm]

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

[font="times new roman"]I have no idea what half of you are talking about as it has no relationship to my original post.   [/font]
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[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]I have no problem with fuel in the economy.  I haven't had a problem with the automated part of my fuel management, just the micromanagement of fuel on manual controlled ships.  To help clear the air; below are some situations which annoy the hell out of me,[/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]1.  Assign a warship to guard a debris field.   Enemy construction ship jumps in... assign warship to attack.  Second construction ship jumps in.  Warship destroys first construction ship and then jumps to refuel with plenty of fuel still on board to have destroyed the second constructor. [/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]2.  Assign warship to kill a kraken swarm.  Warship jumps in kills one and then jumps out to refuel.[/font][/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]3. Assign to a constructor to jump into a system which I don't have any other ships in and the Ancient Guardian has built several bases to see what is available.  The constructor jumps in and then immediately jumps out to refuel.[/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"]etc, etc.[/font][/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"][font="times new roman"][/font][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]I won't even touch the problems with trying to have a fleet with multiple ship class as it is almost impossible to run. [/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font] 
[font="times new roman"]My solution to this micromanagement pain in the ass is to have fuel bubbles.   If you are in the bubble you have fuel period and anything outside of the bubble you don't have to worry about because you can't travel to.  Think MO2's range.  I really think it would help the AI out by forcing it to concentrate and prevent you from completing the original storyline in only a few years.  It would also prevent you from grabbing all of the choice spots early and require you to build supply lines e.g. remember outposts? [/font]

One general point: an interesting thread. IMO, DW is a very good game, and has the potential to be great. If it has a weakness- it is the complexity and learning curve. I don't know that I'd simplify this part of it, but it's interesting thing to think about.

I've had issues roughly similar to this, although not that frequently. Constructors are one place I see it- you clear a debris field of Kaltors and then you're repairing ships and the constructors have to jump out periodically to refuel. A similar thing can happen with patrol ships, especially on the edges of your empire. Probably the most annoying part is when you've got an incoming enemy attack and you want to supplement your defense fleets with some frigates/escorts that were on patrol duty and the like. There's a good chance that half of them will be too low on fuel to stick around for a significant part of the fight. I give my frigate designs around 200 fuel for partly this reason.

Generally, I think fuel makes for some interesting challenges. But it does create more work and I can see how not everyone would enjoy that part of the game. IMO, key things to help are:

• Solar collectors, especially on attack/fleet ships.
• Give attack ships a proportional amount of fuel. For example, 250 or so on destroyers, 350 on cruisers and more on capital. Ships with energy efficient weapons (missiles and some beams) need less energy than torpedo or area effect weapons. Add an extra tank or two for high energy burn ships. This keeps the operational lifespan about the same for me.
• Build lots of gas mining stations and do so quickly when you push into a new area.
• Have a resupply ship when you are making a deep push into enemy territory. Although, with collectors, I can usually manage without when I'm doing a slower system by system takeover.

[OJsDad]

I'm new to the game, and still learning, fuel is one of the things I'm trying to get my hear around. However, reading this thread has helped a lot. This is what I have learned;

1. Put Solar Collectors on all military ships. When they are in a system and awaiting further orders, they will not consume their fuel for energy, the solar collector will supplement the energy need. That will explain my issues with ships running out of fuel while in orbit of a space port.

2. Resupply ships. I thought you could send a resupply ship to a system, and as long as it has plenty of fuel on board, it could be used to fuel other ships. So I need to take a resupply ship, and deploy it to a

A couple of off topic points, but related to what has been discussed here;

1. Space ports. Someone gave a design example of what they put in a space port. I've found that you can only build one space port at each planet. Do you build a smaller space port and then upgrade the design with newer features and additional components, thus allowing you to retrofit the existing space port, or do you scrap the existing space port and build new, thus losing a space port at that planet until the new one is done.

2. Do you allow your contruction ships to be automatted or do you keep control of them. Or, as a third option, allow some to be automated and some under your control.

Maybe just me, but perhaps a more detailed explanation on the fuel economy in the manual or the galactopedia would help.

3. Ships can refuel at gas mining stations, correct? If correct, do you add more gas collectors, docks and even construction yards so fleets can use them?

[Data]

1) you don't need to scrap it, just design a new version and retrofit to it

2) all of these options, depending on priorities

3) no, because ships do not refuel only there. If you have a dedicated or strategically placed one then you could create a particular design for it with more of everything but I haven't done it so far

[Lord_Astraios]

I think i understand cmdrnarrain now,  sure sliders wont work depending on the situation but i know what you mean,  i havent searched for it to change the option but my problem is similar but not with fuel,  plus i suggest him to go to the fleet settings at the empire options in the main options at the main options of the game and change the percentage to 0% for refuel ships,  but my similar situation is in orders to attack a hostile ship,  even i sent the settings in the same place to 3:1 to flee,  i get a bigger enemy ship but lesser in design and for unknown and i'm only like 5 hit point less or more than the enemy and all of the sudden the AI of my ship decide to flee,  i tell it to attack again,  then seconds later it flees again.  I have to tell and click on the enemy various times to attack it until its destroyed.

Now i think this is not an issue of fuel,  is mostly an issue of the AI decisions for those situations,  and i knot know of if setting the game to 0% will tell the AI not to refuel,  never.  The devs should see that or Erik or someone that knows tell us if setting it at 0% in the empire settings will do that.

[LoBaron]

Ah now I get it.
You mean the ships flee because they are exactly at the fuel limit set?

If this is the case then I guess I know what the problem is. The refuel @ X command is pobably entered as a "queue next mission" command.
So if a target gets destroyed it does not switch to the next target but leaves to refuel although another target is present.

Could be solved by adding a check for enemy targets, and attack orders overriding the refuel command. But that could cost processing power to
implement I guess when theres 50000 ships in the galaxy.