War Reports from the Eastern Front: Carnage vs Redmarkus

[Klydon]

Your reports and commentary are top notch and I am enjoying reading this AAR.

Just a comment on the Leningrad area if you are going to make a major effort here. I have played the Road to Leningrad scenario a fair amount. IMHO, if the Germans do not send extra troops here (probably another two infantry corps at least), then they bog down trying to reduce Leningrad the hard way, trying to keep the Soviets behind the Volkov while they do it, and also provide troops south of the Lake Ilmen down towards AGC. (Ideally, you would like to get anchored into that nasty terrain south and east of the lake). After the infantry arrives around Leningrad in force, you can look to move PG4 south of Lake Ilmen and although the terrain is rough here, the Soviets usually skimp on troops early.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Your reports and commentary are top notch and I am enjoying reading this AAR.

Just a comment on the Leningrad area if you are going to make a major effort here. I have played the Road to Leningrad scenario a fair amount. IMHO, if the Germans do not send extra troops here (probably another two infantry corps at least), then they bog down trying to reduce Leningrad the hard way, trying to keep the Soviets behind the Volkov while they do it, and also provide troops south of the Lake Ilmen down towards AGC. (Ideally, you would like to get anchored into that nasty terrain south and east of the lake). After the infantry arrives around Leningrad in force, you can look to move PG4 south of Lake Ilmen and although the terrain is rough here, the Soviets usually skimp on troops early.

Thanks Klydon. Since I started I really wasn't intrested or thought it possible to take Leningrad. But I must put forth the effort that I do want it so this like a big secondary front that really hasn't gotten its resources it would need for Leningrad. I'm just waiting for the right moment to arrive till I can remove my Panzer Group to a better place...ie the south.

Perhaps you can help me with this question. Why would a Soviet player move his units back when not under pressure to do so? Is it because he's running out of units or feeling pressure? I'm at a loss what to make of Reds movements shown here?

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Who is Second Army reporting to out of curiosity? If they are reporting to AGS, then they must really overloaded unless you have taken other measures. Sort of interested what you have done with your command structure to try to take the pressure off.

Great AAR so far.

I missed this comment, sorry. As far as 2nd Armee I will have them attached to AGS. I know that AGS is stacked beyond the moon but I want to stay somewhat 'historical' in my arrangements for Armee attachements. I do plan on moving all my Allied units off AGS and putting them under OKH. In my OKH reports I'll try to keep what I'm doing with my command points.

Currently I'm still trying to organize my stupid support units where I want them but I'm not moving the right units to the right places and I'm having to reorganize certain Corps and Armee Groups to get them where I want them. I see another 2 turns before that's done. If I've made any major errors I feel my misuse of the command points the biggest yet. I should of been done with this already, but I did some reorganization for my divisions the first 3 turns.

[karonagames]

Why would a Soviet player move his units back when not under pressure to do so? Is it because he's running out of units or feeling pressure? I'm at a loss what to make of Reds movements shown here?

That does seem a very strange move to me; as it does not look like any delay units have been left behind - I try to make the Axis move though a ZOC for every single hex. Unless he has been digging behind the lines and is falling back to lvl 3 entrenchments, he seems to be relying on the axis outrunning their supplies.

Supplies will be short until the rail crossings across the Dnepr and Dneister are converted, but the Axis should have enough to pick holes in any weak points in the line he is falling back to.

[Mynok]

Is that the southern FDB to the left of Zhitomir just barely peeking out? It should be right about that area by your current turn.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Why would a Soviet player move his units back when not under pressure to do so? Is it because he's running out of units or feeling pressure? I'm at a loss what to make of Reds movements shown here?

That does seem a very strange move to me; as it does not look like any delay units have been left behind - I try to make the Axis move though a ZOC for every single hex. Unless he has been digging behind the lines and is falling back to lvl 3 entrenchments, he seems to be relying on the axis outrunning their supplies.

Supplies will be short until the rail crossings across the Dnepr and Dneister are converted, but the Axis should have enough to pick holes in any weak points in the line he is falling back to.

I agree. I would have at least left infantry in the swamps there just to clog things up. He probably has the hexes covered, but by the first big black arrow SE of Smolensk, there are open hexes behind the river including a swamp hex. One or two more infantry units to finish the checkerboard and it would have been very effective. Even if he is falling back to level 3 forts, the German infantry will be there pretty quick and should have no issues punting them out of the line.

The only thing I can come up with is he is not sure where your armor is and is afraid of where it might go.

[CarnageINC]

I don't really know if this is related or not I didn't ask specifically about it but I had a email conversion with Red this morning about his play.  I told him I thought he was playing very honorable and historical with his Soviet defense.  What I meant is that he's not using a checkerboard defense but a more realistic linear defense and defending cites to the death was very historical IMO.  His reply was basically that on his end he wanted to see what he could do in the end game with a more historical start.  I think he wants to compare his play with the real life outcome.  He didn't say so specifically but that was the intention I got out of his messages.

Would moving the line back this far at this time be a match with history?  I know I can check the frontline trace that goranw posted but its so confusing of my old eyes.  I'll check again to see if I can decipher them better [;)]

[Klydon]

Certainly not in the south where the Soviets were up on the river line defending.. until PG2 came crashing through from the north.

My impression is the Soviets also fought hard in the corridor between Smolensk and Bryansk since this was the main route of attack towards Moscow. Instead of falling back, the Soviets moved stuff up to counter attack.

[notenome]

Yeah the soviets bled themselves white counterattacking in the Center, after and during Smolensk. No sov player wants to play that historically!
 
Your oponent probably got nervous and pulled the front back because he feared an encirclement, so he made a more rigid line around swamps, light forests and minor rivers. Either that or he was digging in a second line and has decided to pull back to it, which is possible but improbable as your recon would have picked it up. This gives you a priceless oportunity to alter your dispositions as you advance into open space, a cooperative grand encirclement between both panzer armies is perfectly feasible here.

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: notenome

Yeah the soviets bled themselves white counterattacking in the Center, after and during Smolensk. No sov player wants to play that historically!

Your oponent probably got nervous and pulled the front back because he feared an encirclement, so he made a more rigid line around swamps, light forests and minor rivers. Either that or he was digging in a second line and has decided to pull back to it, which is possible but improbable as your recon would have picked it up. This gives you a priceless oportunity to alter your dispositions as you advance into open space, a cooperative grand encirclement between both panzer armies is perfectly feasible here.

Honestly I don't think I recon'd that far back of his lines. I guess I'll have to deeper recons, lesson learned! I don't think I make this opportunity, I got a great break in the south for my Hades Op. that I'm starting. When I get time I'll show it on the map.

[randallw]

Perhaps he's luring you into a trap! [:D] Fifteen thousand tanks await to fall on you. [:'(]

[kfmiller41]

Yeh, sure[:D] 15,000 BT-5 tanks Forgive me if I am not impressed[:D] If he is falling back without Resistance he is keeping your losses very low and allowing you to dictate where to come at him. I at least try to channel enemy in the direction i want him to go by contesting harder in those areas. In my next game (your welcome to be my opponent carnage if you like) I will be playing very much more aggressively as the Russians, just to see how it plays out. And by aggressively I mean fighting hard for every inch I can

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: miller41

Yeh, sure[:D] 15,000 BT-5 tanks Forgive me if I am not impressed[:D] If he is falling back without Resistance he is keeping your losses very low and allowing you to dictate where to come at him. I at least try to channel enemy in the direction i want him to go by contesting harder in those areas. In my next game (your welcome to be my opponent carnage if you like) I will be playing very much more aggressively as the Russians, just to see how it plays out. And by aggressively I mean fighting hard for every inch I can

Sure thing Miller! We will have to duke it out someday [;)]

[CarnageINC]

Its turn 10, 7 more till the mud hits. Got my support units in a better positioning this turn, still have 0 command points left every turn. My higher HQ's are still in disarray but that should be fixed soon.

[CarnageINC]

I think that I'm doing well for this stage against a human. I'm totally destroying his mobile units, I don't know why he keeps exposing them but thats a big bonus for me! [:)]

[CarnageINC]

He is a excact front line trace for the 2nd month of the war. Steady advancing along the front. [8D]

[CarnageINC]

My 'Operation Poseidon' has kicked off to a good start. I managed to cut off some units to the west. My reserve panzers didn't have enough fuel to be any use so I waited a turn to use them. I think my infantry can start pushing his back in the key areas. Recon didn't go off as good as I think, Leningrad seems very bare and I don't expect it to be.

[CarnageINC]

I got a lucky break, my infantry opened up 2 small cracks in the front and Operation Ares kicked off to a surprise start way earlier than i thought it would. Center pocket almost tied up just fell short. I'm very close to my objectives already so thats a relief, I though I would have to slug it to them the hard way. I don't know if reaching Kaluga is going to be possible in a timely manner but I don't know if it matters. Moscow is peaking out just to the right of the map! [:'(]

[CarnageINC]

All quite here, just need to make up ground ASAP! I'm afraid Red will change his mind and reoccupy this ground.

[CarnageINC]

[&o]Good ole 1st Panzer Group!!! [&o]

These guys are earning their pay and they are taking minimal casualties doing it to. Red's entire southern front is becoming very brittle and easy to puncture. My next offensive in the Crimean is lining up good. i almost want to run east with my panzer's but I must stick to my objectives. I want the option of launching a good attack from Crimea toward the east if I need to.