Australia Invaded!! NY59Giants (A) vs Olorin (J)

[obvert]

How are the VPs looking after this air assault on the industry in OZ?

[ny59giants]

I've lost 2702 in Victory Points due to strategic bombing as of 31 May '42. Next turn (which is three days ahead of last posting) will see over 200 fighters contesting the skies over Newcastle. 100 are from the 15PG that was based at Pearl and had been training for months and is flying the P-40E. The rest are P-39s and the Aussie Kittyhawks. I have over 100 P-40E in my pool, about 50 P-39s, and for the Brits up in India over 70 Hurricane IIb. The air war will be heating up soon. [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've lost 2702 in Victory Points due to strategic bombing as of 31 May '42. Next turn (which is three days ahead of last posting) will see over 200 fighters contesting the skies over Newcastle. 100 are from the 15PG that was based at Pearl and had been training for months and is flying the P-40E. The rest are P-39s and the Aussie Kittyhawks. I have over 100 P-40E in my pool, about 50 P-39s, and for the Brits up in India over 70 Hurricane IIb. The air war will be heating up soon. [;)]

Interesting that with this invasion and with the VP industry bombing campaign he still hasn't made it to a 3:1 ratio.

Looking forward to see how this develops as you begin to contest the airspace. P-39s en masse have really stopped me cold a few times, even the KB pilots. But that was more like 150 of them so that about 100 would show up on CAP as I would sweep. As point defense (from my perspective as a Japanese player) I thought they fared better in mid-42 than the P-40E. Either way, though, with that mass of CAP showing up suddenly you will surely cause him some problems.

[ny59giants]

Aussie Turkey Shoot!![:D][:D]

Details to follow, but something to get an AFBs juices flowing.

[obvert]

That oughta slow things down for a while! [:D]

[GreyJoy]

Oh Lord....i surely wouldn't like to be in Olorin's shoes now...[:-]

[ny59giants]

May 29, 30, 31:
Perth falls SUDDENLY!! [X(][X(][:@]
Aussie Turkey Shoot!! [:D][:D]

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft;

Subs:
S-37 if just off Norfolk Island and sinks an AK with 2 TT hits.
S-42 get a TT hit on another AK at Norfolk.
S-43 gets another hit on an AK with 1 TT.
KXVIII gets hit once by DCs off Geraldton

I'm trying to see how having some two subs per TF do with a few TFs patroling between Lowe Howe Island and Norfolk Island.

CVs:
American CVs are still at Melbourne guarding the transports

India/Burma: [>:][>:]

China:
Yenan - Up to 27 Sally hit AF daily;

Philippines:
Cebu - Up to 25 Sally & Helen hit AF daily

Batavia: Up to 12 Nell and 9 Lily hit AF daily;

Western Australia:
Perth - 58 Sally hit the AF;

Ground combat at Perth (49,147) on 29th

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 54278 troops, 528 guns, 785 vehicles, Assault Value = 1958

Defending force 16697 troops, 280 guns, 199 vehicles, Assault Value = 400

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1267

Allied adjusted defense: 66 [X(][:@][X(] In three days it goes from an Adjusted Value of 872 to this with only some mild bombing attcks!?! WTF!! I've seen some bad die rolls, but this was a complete surprise. As I watched the replay, I saw the value next to 18th UK just roll downward like a bad odometer.

Japanese assault odds: 19 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Perth !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
729 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 20 (2 destroyed, 18 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
19843 casualties reported
Squads: 516 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 994 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 186 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 160 (160 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 274 (274 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 11

Assaulting units:
1st Engineer Co
Imperial Guards Division
48th Division
4th Guards Division
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
20th Infantry Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
Guards Tank Division
8th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
18th British Division
2/16th Field Regiment
III Australian
7th RAA Coastal Artillery Regiment
108th Anti Tank Regiment
1st RAAF M/W Sqn
3rd Australian Brigade
10th Avn Sup Afd
4th RAN Base Force
13th Australian Brigade
Freemantle Fortress

How do you address such a shock?? Any comments readers?? [&:][&:]

Kalgoorlie - 38 Oscar sweep on 30th with only 29 on 31st;

Cue (53,141) - para drop in and take this dot base to east of Geraldton on 31st;

Eastern Australia:
Alice Springs - Up to 17 Hudson hit Recon just one hex out daily

Newcastle -
29th - 27 Zero & 53 Betty = Manpower hits 80 & Fires 16409; 27 Betty = Manpower hits 29 & Fires 18155; 49 Helen = Manpower hits 27 & Fires 23798; 42 Oscar & 27 Helen =
Manpower hits 11 & Fires 26174; 31 Sally = Manpower hits 8 & Fires 27956; 34 Helen =
Manpower hits 29 & Fires 33896; 34 Betty = Manpower hits 30 & Fires 35821; 36 Zero sweep;
30th - 36 Zeros sweep; 27 Betty = Manpower hits 28 & Fires 12813; $2 Oscars with 31 Sally & 77 Helen = Manpower hits 116 & Fires 38546; 33 Helen = Manpower hits 24 & Fires 56277; 34(1) Betty = Manpower hits 71 & Fires 54413;
Plenty of unescorted bombers !! [:D]
31st - 27(8) Zero with 27(18) Betty vs 15 Kittyhawk, 41 P-39D, 54 P-40E Warhawk; 25(10) Helen vs 13 Kittyhawk, 32 P-39D, 54 P-40E; 42(3) Oscar with 49(22) Helen vs 13 Kittyhawk, 28 P-39D, 51(1) P-40E = Manpower hits 4 & Fires 12091; 31(3) Sally & 35(13) Helen vs 8 Kittyhawk, 18 P-39D, 45 P-40E = Manpower hits 13 & Fires 18471; 33(8) Betty vs 4 Kittyhawk, 13 P-39D, 32 P-40E; and in the afternoon 36(3) Zero sweep vs 14(3) Kittyhawk, 19(2) P-39D, 40(6) P-40E;

Tamworth -
30th - 35 Betty = NO damage; 21(1) Betty = Resources hits 4;
Plenty of unescorted bombers, part 2 !! [;)]
31st - 33(12) Betty vs 16 Kittyhawk & 32 P-39; 17(6) Betty vs 14 Kittyhawk & 29 P-39D; 6(3) Betty vs 11 Kittyhawk & 27 P-39D;

South Pacific: [>:][>:]

Notes:
A change of emotion from the sudden fall of Perth on 29th to the success of the CAP/LRCAP in Eastern Australia on the 31st (only 4 pilots KIA). Nick had spotted my American CVS, but didn't think of being better prepared when launching air strikes. Now, the true battle for southern Australia will take place.

[Crackaces]

nteresting that with this invasion and with the VP industry bombing campaign he still hasn't made it to a 3:1 ratio.

I do remember Alfred commenting in a thread once that disrupting the Aus HI affects the entire Allied availible HI and eventually production. Not only in the land of oz but total production. Little quirks in how the rounding algorithum works can result in affecting aircraft numbers. Alfred proposed that the disruption of HI in the land of Oz might even be worth triggering the line of death. With the thought of disrupting HI and then moving on .. Here the IJ are attriting HI and avoding the LOD but it looks like they plan to hold this terrotory ..

What will be exteremly intersting to me is how the IJ defend this far from home when NY59Giants starts getting things rolling ... for example, the monsoon season will be over in Burma and the Allies will be able to get things kicked off there while putting pressure on the IJ in other places ..

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

nteresting that with this invasion and with the VP industry bombing campaign he still hasn't made it to a 3:1 ratio.

I do remember Alfred commenting in a thread once that disrupting the Aus HI affects the entire Allied availible HI and eventually production. Not only in the land of oz but total production. Little quirks in how the rounding algorithum works can result in affecting aircraft numbers. Alfred proposed that the disruption of HI in the land of Oz might even be worth triggering the line of death. With the thought of disrupting HI and then moving on .. Here the IJ are attriting HI and avoding the LOD but it looks like they plan to hold this terrotory ..

it does NOT and I really wonder why this is coming up so many times again and again. The Allied are swimming in HI, it doesn't matter if they lose the Australian and Indian HI alltogether nor do you have to supply it with fuel when it comes down to "producing" anything else than supplies. Probably more than 95% of the Allied ac "production" is coming as replacements, nearly no ac are produced on map. All you need is the HI in the US and even then you only need a small margin. It gives the Japanese some nice points but that's it. The Allied store millions of HI points of which there is no use for.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

nteresting that with this invasion and with the VP industry bombing campaign he still hasn't made it to a 3:1 ratio.

I do remember Alfred commenting in a thread once that disrupting the Aus HI affects the entire Allied availible HI and eventually production. Not only in the land of oz but total production. Little quirks in how the rounding algorithum works can result in affecting aircraft numbers. Alfred proposed that the disruption of HI in the land of Oz might even be worth triggering the line of death. With the thought of disrupting HI and then moving on .. Here the IJ are attriting HI and avoding the LOD but it looks like they plan to hold this terrotory ..

it does NOT and I really wonder why this is coming up so many times again and again. The Allied are swimming in HI, it doesn't matter if they lose the Australian and Indian HI alltogether nor do you have to supply it with fuel when it comes down to "producing" anything else than supplies. Probably more than 95% of the Allied ac "production" is coming as replacements, nearly no ac are produced on map. All you need is the HI in the US and even then you only need a small margin. It gives the Japanese some nice points but that's it. The Allied store millions of HI points of which there is no use for.

Because there was a posting where as a player shutdown all industry in Oz to save supply. However, it is my understanding that P-38's produced in Los Angeles where affected and the behavior was attributed to an overall allied HI/Air production rounding algorithum introduced with the shutdown of Oz industry. So the conclusion at the time was shutting down Oz had a very untoward side effect on Allied air production. Maybe software changes since then makes this a moot point? ... I just know that in the beta before this last change I observed this behavior and turned Oz industry back on ... it is quite possible that some other factor I do not understand is involved ..

[castor troy]

no software changes, the thinking that destroying/capturing/shutting down of HI in Australia or India affects Allied aircraft production has been wrong since release. Destroying Australian HI gives the Japanese player victory points, nothing else. Shutting down Australian HI saves the Allied player fuel, not supply. Just once look at all the HI in the US and any discussion about it will end in a moment.

[ny59giants]

Here is what my economy looks like after last turn.

[ny59giants]

June 1, 2, 3:
Things slow down....

Key: TT = Torpedo; bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; AV = Assault Value; DC = Depth Charged; (*) = destroyed aircraft;

Subs:
A damaged KXVIII is off Perth and get a TT hit on an AK

CVs:
American CVs are two days south of Melborne with empty transports heading for NZ
Brit CVs are resting and repairing at Wellington, NZ
Japan's CVs are unknown?!?

India/Burma:[>:][>:]
I make a list my divisions present and what the PP cost will be for each. Much of my PPs will head here over the next few months or so.

China:
Yenan - Up to 30 Sally hit AF daily;

By-Passed:
Cebu - Up to 22 Sally/Helen hit AF daily;

Batavia - Up to 11 Nell and 8 Lily hit AF daily;

Australia:
Newcastle - On 1st, 34(10) Zero sweep the base vs 5 Kittyhawk, 18 P-39D, 36(3) P-40E; How the air situation has changed in Australia in less than a week. [:)]

Kalgoorlie - 30 Oscars sweep on 1st; 54(1) Sally hit the AF on 3rd = 4b, 6s, 42b

West of Charleville - the 56th Recon shock attacks my retreating Inf Bn on 1st;

East of Bourke - a cut of RAN BF is destroyed by Tank Rgt on 1st;

Meekatharra (dot base in the west) - captured by paras on 1st

Broken Hills -
2nd - 8 Zeros are on LRCAP over three Tank Rgt one hex to east. 65 B-26 & 16 B-25 hit the tanks destroying 3 and disabling a lot!! I lose 2 bombers to the Zeros (CAP from base did not leak over.
3rd - the 9th Tank Rgt makes it to the base, but my re-directed bombers (15 B-25 & 63 B-26) destroy 30 vehicles!! [:D] The unit is seen retreating.

South Pacific: [>:]
Moving supplies to NZ (two TF a few days out of North and South Island). Need fuel at Aukland/Wellington badly.

Notes:
Screenshot shows what the battle area of Australia will look at over the next few weeks to months. Bourke went to AF 1 last turn. Nick is still in shock per emails over the changes and tells me he will be back once Mr Tojo starts coming out in numbers this month. YIKES!!

[princep01]

Please excuse my blissful ignorance, but I don't play any of the Mods.  Did this scenario began on December 7, 1941 or at some later date?  Is the initial force Order of Battle (OB) historical or does it assume that the Japanese OB and Allied for that matter began at a more advanced state?  (Rhetorical musings) Why am I so resistant to Mods that seem designed to allow the Japanese a real chance of winning outright?  Using historical conditions could the Japanese have even dreamed of actuallly doing more than conquering northern Australia?
 
Thanks for doing an AAR on this.  You are a skilled and much appreciated player of this game.  I have learned much from your posts elsewhere.  In fact, I have learned more from you on playing the stock WitPAE than any other single poster in the Forum.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Here is what my economy looks like after last turn.

Ok I think I took the conversation off track .. I am thinking the problem is aircraft assembly points? And hitting aircraft factories in OZ has a global effect? I have a 174 (+684 rnd) in Oct 42 in my game now .. no allied aircraft factories are getting bombed ... It might be worth tracking aircraft production vs. aircraft factory points indices as the IJ continue to bomb.. inquiriing minds want to know [8D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: princep01

Please excuse my blissful ignorance, but I don't play any of the Mods.  Did this scenario began on December 7, 1941 or at some later date?  Is the initial force Order of Battle (OB) historical or does it assume that the Japanese OB and Allied for that matter began at a more advanced state?  (Rhetorical musings) Why am I so resistant to Mods that seem designed to allow the Japanese a real chance of winning outright?  Using historical conditions could the Japanese have even dreamed of actuallly doing more than conquering northern Australia?

Thanks for doing an AAR on this.  You are a skilled and much appreciated player of this game.  I have learned much from your posts elsewhere.  In fact, I have learned more from you on playing the stock WitPAE than any other single poster in the Forum.

Per the first post in this AAR, they are playing the latest version of Reluctant Admiral. For details of the mod see the thread "Reluctant Admiral Feedback" in the Mods section of this forum. RA does give considerable boost to the Japanese OOB but like most mods there are new challenges for both sides. I think the idea of most mods is to fix a few things that seem out of whack in stock (e.g. AA tweaks) and to keep the game fresh by giving players a different strategic possiblity. JFBs need a game that does not become depressing in 1943! [;)]

[ny59giants]

Actually, we are playing DBB #30 which has most of stock scenario 2 moved over to the DBB mod system. The big difference is the Japanese economy which I stated in GreyJoy's AAR and in his separate thread.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Actually, we are playing DBB #30 which has most of stock scenario 2 moved over to the DBB mod system. The big difference is the Japanese economy which I stated in GreyJoy's AAR and in his separate thread.

DOH! I read the first sentence of the AAR and saw Reluctant Admiral and jumped to the Mod forum to look it up - never saw the subsequent DBB decision! Can we get a head-slap or Homer Simpson smiley added to the forum?
Thanks for setting me straight ny59giants!

[ny59giants]

BB - I 'had' started a game as Japan playing Reluctant Admiral vs Mike Solli, but he has been MIA since mid-August. [:(] I had put out a request for an opponent and got both Mike and Nick to respond. The good thing about this game is Nick (Olorin) and I is the pace of the game has us getting 2 to sometimes even 4 turns done a day. [8D]

Crackace - The aircraft factory at Sydney was bombed to dust, but the airframe isn't due to produce till 45, so I'm not to worried.

Princep01 - Thanks for the kind words. It must be the mental health professional side of me that continues to try to help people. I'm still subject to making mistakes and may have cost myself another division being destroyed needlessly by leaving it at Kalgoorlie too long. The next two days will determine if I have a V-8 moment and slap myself in the forehead. Details to follow in my normal postings. [X(]

[jrcar]

Interesting, keeping an eye on this.

Cheers

Rob