Women In the Infantry

[warspite1]

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

You know better. In the US military if a woman gets pregnant she is given a choice of a leave or resignation. How is that for equality...oh wait, men can't just resign or get a leave of absence. That would be great for morale and unit cohesion if the pregnant soldier was a platoon leader.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

You know better. In the US military if a woman gets pregnant she is given a choice of a leave or resignation. How is that for equality...oh wait, men can't just resign or get a leave of absence. That would be great for morale and unit cohesion if the pregnant soldier was a platoon leader.

warspite1

I don't know "better". I was simply asking a question to better understand this subject.

So what you say for the US military is true even in time of war?

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

You know better. In the US military if a woman gets pregnant she is given a choice of a leave or resignation. How is that for equality...oh wait, men can't just resign or get a leave of absence. That would be great for morale and unit cohesion if the pregnant soldier was a platoon leader.

warspite1

I don't know "better". I was simply asking a question to better understand this subject.

So what you say for the US military is true even in time of war?

Sorry Mc Collegue, I meant to put a smiley face at the end of the "...know better" line.

Yes it is true in time of war. If we have no problem with women in combat then women are the same as men. If that is the case then we accept there are no differences, therefore pregnancy should receive no special consideration. Fight right up till the baby pops out. I don't think those who support women in combat will accept that. Just like the supporters would have a collective fit if women were told "you are just like you male counterparts, so you MUST shower together". That's not likely to happen either.

[barkman44]

Men and women think and behave differently theres no avoiding that fact.
Hasbro made an interesting study which came to that conclusion
males are just more aggressive and women are naturally nuturing in nature
and this extends to other species,they filled a room with toys and put young chimpanzees in it.
the males gravitated to the masculine toys ie balls blocks toy weapons etc.
the females went to the dolls.
hasbro tried to market a "gender"free playhouse when it came to playing with the toy baby included the girls would
put it in its bed and let it sleep while the boys would put it in its carriage and roll it off the roof!
i was talking to a guy who's wife wanted their daughter to be less stereotyped as a female so he
got her a train set after messing with it for awhile she wrapped the locomotive up in a blanket
and put it in bed so it could take a nap.
Women are instictivly nuturing in nature and to force them to do things against that nature like killing and destoying things will have dire consequences i'm afraid

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

Men and women think and behave differently theres no avoiding that fact.
Hasbro made an interesting study which came to that conclusion
males are just more aggressive and women are naturally nuturing in nature
and this extends to other species,they filled a room with toys and put young chimpanzees in it.
the males gravitated to the masculine toys ie balls blocks toy weapons etc.
the females went to the dolls.
hasbro tried to market a "gender"free playhouse when it came to playing with the toy baby included the girls would
put it in its bed and let it sleep while the boys would put it in its carriage and roll it off the roof!
i was talking to a guy who's wife wanted their daughter to be less stereotyped as a female so he
got her a train set after messing with it for awhile she wrapped the locomotive up in a blanket
and put it in bed so it could take a nap.
Women are instictivly nuturing in nature and to force them to do things against that nature like killing and destoying things will have dire consequences i'm afraid

I saw the this gender behavior in my three children. My two son's gravitated to guns, trucks and dirt. My daughter, with no prompting, was pretending to take care of babies when she was about 4 or 5. I have bragged that my daughter likes to play Squad Leader and watch war movies...with me, her brothers and her fiance. But she is all girl with her female friends, several who have never understood her willingness to play our "way". My wife has always insisted my daughter likes to please the men she cares about(like her mother). There are no women I know(including those in the military) who want, or even understand why women would want to fight. My daughter told me "if I am ever drafted I might dodge service. If in combat I would find a man or group of men to hide behind." NUFF SAID.

[barkman44]

I bet you Gal-Queda {national organization of women}is all for this ruling!

[parusski]

Gal-Queda

HA! Good one.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: parusski




If one supports allowing women in combat, it follows that all sports should be integrated on the terms of equality. If women can participate in the most violent and destructive activity known to man, then they should be able to play pro-football as a linebacker, or even a half-back.

Is there any law that prevents it?

Prevents what?

Playing pro football as bolded by me and stated by you.

[Orm]

I watched a science show on TV that claimed that men are significantly more prone in taking risks when females are watching them. The reason for this behavior is that male hormones go up when there are attractive females watching them. I suspect that this could be bad in combat situations. But what do I know.

I should perhaps add that this is not the fault of neither male nor female. It is just how the male body functions. I should perhaps also add that the show said that the reason for this risky behavior of the males is because males are programmed to show females that they are strong males and would be good mates.

[DivePac88]

Just something from my past: Many, many years ago in a country once called Rhodesia, I was in a small fire fight once. With a (BSAP) Woman Police Officer armed with an FN beside me, and I can tell you she was calm as a cucumber.

[berto]

Some advice on women in combat from a female veteran:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/27/some-advice-on-women-in-combat-from-a-female-veteran/

I say again, I would have loved to be in the infantry. I think I could have done it physically, I could’ve met almost all the male standards (jumping aside), and I think I’m mentally tough enough to handle whatever came. But I would never do that to the men. I would never sacrifice the mission for my own desires. And I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if someone died because of me.

[Titanwarrior89]

Very interesting article and so is the sub link in the article about women going into the Rangers.

ORIGINAL: berto


Some advice on women in combat from a female veteran:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/27/some-advice-on-women-in-combat-from-a-female-veteran/

I say again, I would have loved to be in the infantry. I think I could have done it physically, I could’ve met almost all the male standards (jumping aside), and I think I’m mentally tough enough to handle whatever came. But I would never do that to the men. I would never sacrifice the mission for my own desires. And I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if someone died because of me.

[Laz]

I prefaced my post with stating I have a lot of respect for many in the service but the service itself. i feel my response though harsh was fair given the disrespect and deliberate misreading of my own referenced post. this is not a personality contest- this is a forum to discuss and exchange ideas. it is disrespectful and incorrect to take a statement out of context and use it to redefine the statement while attempting to humiliate the speaker. I recognize I am in a group of many experienced servicemen, and I did not expect my post to gather any support- but I feel it is important to challenge conventional views and in turn be challenged by them- that does not mean that my purpose is to troll, but it seemed there was too much agreement for a conventional thought and without disention as a citizen I felt it important to interject my own contrary point of view. For a bunch of soldiers, you guys seem awfully incapable of attacking an idea, or defending yourselves against a counter-strike. Call me a hippie, whatever, if by that you mean a leftist, then yes I am, I care about people and I am proud of that fact. I am an idealist too. I don't see why anyone should not strive for something better because there are numerous difficulties to be overcome on the way. Finally, without regard to how it may seem, I have no emotional involvement in this discussion; I don't know any of you and you neither me- this is not about being right or wrong- this is about communicating an idea, accept that I have respectfully given you an idea to consider- and I see that thus far you have not yet considered it.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: berto

I am not aware of any comparable crusade to create gender-integrated football teams. At least America knows what’s really important.

Heather Mac Donald, writing ironically, quoted from: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/338613/wrong-women-warriors-heather-mac-donald

I love Heather Mac Donald. She made an excellent point about gender-integrated football teams. Now, those who have no problem with women in combat, I propose we force the NFL to allow women to start on their football teams. Please respond and tell us where you stand on this issue.

Since you asked . . .

The issue of women in combat is stats. The NFL are elite males in the areas being measured. The SEALs if you will. Few male soldiers are SEALs (or GBs, or Rangers.)

To be acceptable a female soldier has to be as good as your worst male. He's acceptable; then so is she. And a lot of women are as good as the worst male in terms of push-ups and sit-ups. And they bring lots of other qualities to the table.

I don't know where you cavemen have been for eleven years, but woman are out there NOW. They patrol for weeks at a time with male units. They go into hot LZs. They man MCs in convoys. They engage in fire-fights on a regular basis. They just aren't officially "in combat." Now they will be.

It's also comical to watch you guys act like it's "your" military and you'll decide to let them in or not. They're citizens. They're the majority of citizens in fact. It's their country and their military as much as yours or mine. And the 20-something women of today are not the women you knew in the 60s and 70s. Meet a few of them.

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: berto



Heather Mac Donald, writing ironically, quoted from: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/338613/wrong-women-warriors-heather-mac-donald

I love Heather Mac Donald. She made an excellent point about gender-integrated football teams. Now, those who have no problem with women in combat, I propose we force the NFL to allow women to start on their football teams. Please respond and tell us where you stand on this issue.

Since you asked . . .

The issue of women in combat is stats. The NFL are elite males in the areas being measured. The SEALs if you will. Few male soldiers are SEALs (or GBs, or Rangers.)

To be acceptable a female soldier has to be as good as your worst male. He's acceptable; then so is she. And a lot of women are as good as the worst male in terms of push-ups and sit-ups. And they bring lots of other qualities to the table.

I don't know where you cavemen have been for eleven years, but woman are out there NOW. They patrol for weeks at a time with male units. They go into hot LZs. They man MCs in convoys. They engage in fire-fights on a regular basis. They just aren't officially "in combat." Now they will be.

It's also comical to watch you guys act like it's "your" military and you'll decide to let them in or not. They're citizens. They're the majority of citizens in fact. It's their country and their military as much as yours or mine. And the 20-something women of today are not the women you knew in the 60s and 70s. Meet a few of them.

Sorry, but I did not know any women in the 60's or 70's. In 1979 I was just 13. Well, I knew my mom and grandmother's.

In the end I actually base a lot of my position on the women I know. Including a few who belong to the party I can't mention and a few women in the military. So I will let the women I know, talk with(not talk t0), know that they are wrong to oppose women in combat. Not sure how my daughter, wife, several aunt's, one grandmother, five female subordinates and several female friends will react to your ideas.

I also want to say that I do not get angry with those of you who insult me because I disagree with them. These conversations are necessary in any society. But it is disheartening to be called names and talked down to just because I have a different opinion.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: parusski




I love Heather Mac Donald. She made an excellent point about gender-integrated football teams. Now, those who have no problem with women in combat, I propose we force the NFL to allow women to start on their football teams. Please respond and tell us where you stand on this issue.

Since you asked . . .

The issue of women in combat is stats. The NFL are elite males in the areas being measured. The SEALs if you will. Few male soldiers are SEALs (or GBs, or Rangers.)

To be acceptable a female soldier has to be as good as your worst male. He's acceptable; then so is she. And a lot of women are as good as the worst male in terms of push-ups and sit-ups. And they bring lots of other qualities to the table.

I don't know where you cavemen have been for eleven years, but woman are out there NOW. They patrol for weeks at a time with male units. They go into hot LZs. They man MCs in convoys. They engage in fire-fights on a regular basis. They just aren't officially "in combat." Now they will be.

It's also comical to watch you guys act like it's "your" military and you'll decide to let them in or not. They're citizens. They're the majority of citizens in fact. It's their country and their military as much as yours or mine. And the 20-something women of today are not the women you knew in the 60s and 70s. Meet a few of them.

Sorry, but I did not know any women in the 60's or 70's. In 1979 I was just 13. Well, I knew my mom and grandmother's.

In the end I actually base a lot of my position on the women I know. Including a few who belong to the party I can't mention and a few women in the military. So I will let the women I know, talk with(not talk t0), know that they are wrong to oppose women in combat. Not sure how my daughter, wife, several aunt's, one grandmother, five female subordinates and several female friends will react to your ideas.

I also want to say that I do not get angry with those of you who insult me because I disagree with them. These conversations are necessary in any society. But it is disheartening to be called names and talked down to just because I have a different opinion.

In 1979 I was 21 and about to join the US Navy. I knew few if any women I would have called ready to be infantrymen. Then, at OCS in the fall of 1980, I knew a woman who had trained with the men's Olympic pentathlon team. I saw, with my own eyes, her beat a SEAL who had done tours in Vietnam in a push-up contest. He quit at 700; she did 715. Real, straight-as-a-board guy push-ups. She weighed about 120 pounds. I slow-danced with her and none of it was fat. She became a Navy diver. There was no quit in her. Not a shred.

I've known other women like that since, in the military, in business, through sports. They're there whether you personaly know them or not. The proposal is to allow some women in the combat arms. Not all women. Not even most women. There are women who can do it. They should be allowed to. Why?

They're citizens.

If you object to "caveman" then I'm sorry. I thought a ruff and tuff combat vet could take it.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

Under UCMJ, probably nothing more serious than fraternization.

When we were getting harardous duty pay in Bosnia, pregnant females were redeployed, possibly to face fines and loss of rank.

Then again, accidently discharging your other (issued) weapon was a ticket home too!

[Titanwarrior89]

Well its in the news.   DOD now has to do a plan on how set up the Selective Service requirements for femals as well as males(ages 18-25).  A group Called SWAN is pushing it also.  The different services have until May this year to have their plans completed, allowing women into combat units.  I figured this would happen.  Not a good move at all.  I truly don't understand were these so called educated men and women are coming from in congress and Department of Defense for this kind of move.[:@][:o]  God help this nation!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So in time of war, a unit is deployed overseas. An Infantry(wo)man then gets pregnant. Is this a court-martial offence? Is she effectively a desserter?

Under UCMJ, probably nothing more serious than fraternization.

When we were getting harardous duty pay in Bosnia, pregnant females were redeployed, possibly to face fines and loss of rank.

Then again, accidently discharging your other (issued) weapon was a ticket home too!

warspite1

Well to my mind that is having your cake and eating it. If women want to be blokes then fine - but the rules need to be the same. If you are a frontline infantry soldier, you are at war, and you decide to get pregnant - that is desertion in the face of the enemy.