Summer Offensive - Oshawott (Axis) vs Griefhead (Russia)

[Oshawott]

T7 - OOB

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

Have you ever had this moment at the end of the turn where you look over the map and make last minute adjustments? Well I did so during this turn and one simple move screwed up everything. I dope slapped myself right after I moved the unit and stared at the cavalry division. I took another screenshot because I knew what was coming next turn. [:D]

Yep, I managed to screw up a game of the Battle for Moscow scenario by deciding right at the end to move one Mot brigade and then realised that I'd allowed my opponent not only to open what was previously a sealed pocket but also to encircle 3 Pzr/Mot divisions.

All makes for more fun games than if every move is a thing of complete perfection [8D]

[charlie0311]

IMHO, not fun AT ALL, i recommend using frequent "save overs" for start over points to limit the damage from screw ups (the honest kind). No save overs to reroll combats of course. It's the honor system.

[Oshawott]

T8 - Karelia

A view of the most northern front. Griefhead has railed units into this area and I am facing level 3 forts. No point attacking this. I keep monitoring this area.

[Oshawott]

T8 - North

I continue to push north and block the rail line with a motorized division which is now very exposed.

[Oshawott]

T8 - Center

The pocket is now firmly closed and I am setting up a two prong attack on Moscow. A weak spot has been detected in the Russian defense line. Otherwise I mostly face level 2+ forts.

[Oshawott]

T8 - Kursk Sector

There are practically no troops in front of Kursk and Orel. Griefhead knows probably that I intend to get my armor north. One Corps performed an HQ buildup last turn and moves north. One Panzer division even goes around Sumy and encircles the entire area. To close the pocket one motorized division from AGC moves south.

A vast area will be flipped at the end of the turn. But there are almost no units in the pocket. A couple of airborne brigades and a tank division that was hiding in the marshes.

[Oshawott]

T8 - South

I continue to lock Kharkov and slowly push towards Stalino with infantry.

[Oshawott]

T8 - Crimea

I changed the leader of LVI Corps and this turn the attack succeeds. The follow up hasty attack, however, fails.

[Oshawott]

T8 - OOB

[Hyacinth]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

T8 - Karelia

A view of the most northern front. Griefhead has railed units into this area and I am facing level 3 forts. No point attacking this. I keep monitoring this area.

Historically Finns took 10-15.000 men permanent casualties in three months going trough this terrain, it will only get worse if they dig the region in depth.

If Finns dont advance here by August by latest will it not make holding Leningrad easier?

The German regiments where up there with Group O, Talvela is the go-to guy for swinging north of Jänisjärvi, even with bloody attacks.

[Oshawott]

Historically Finns took 10-15.000 men permanent casualties in three months going trough this terrain, it will only get worse if they dig the region in depth.

If Finns dont advance here by August by latest will it not make holding Leningrad easier?

It has no effect on Leningrad. But if the Russians can hold this area it might speed up the surrender of Finland. If I can't advance here I will fortify the entire region.

[Hyacinth]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

Historically Finns took 10-15.000 men permanent casualties in three months going trough this terrain, it will only get worse if they dig the region in depth.

If Finns dont advance here by August by latest will it not make holding Leningrad easier?

It has no effect on Leningrad. But if the Russians can hold this area it might speed up the surrender of Finland. If I can't advance here I will fortify the entire region.

Seem to be a preferred strategy by veteran players, modification of the historical Salpa-line.

[smokindave34]

I personally think Griefhead is wasting good units holding up the Finns when he could be using them to defend Leningrad or Moscow. Let the Finns run wild - they are not going anywhere of any strategic importance.

[Hyacinth]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I personally think Griefhead is wasting good units holding up the Finns when he could be using them to defend Leningrad or Moscow. Let the Finns run wild - they are not going anywhere of any strategic importance.

Yes, a limitation of the game engine.
In truth if Leningrad was taken the morale would have sky rocketed and easily released one army of even volunteers to go for anything from Archangelsk to Moscow.

Kola and Murmansk would have fallen freeing up to 300.000-500.000 Finnish and German troops.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I personally think Griefhead is wasting good units holding up the Finns when he could be using them to defend Leningrad or Moscow. Let the Finns run wild - they are not going anywhere of any strategic importance.

Disagree.

I do this every game. Too many Soviet players take a lackadaisical attitude towards the Finns...and find themselves defending at Yaroslavl once Leningrad falls. If you do a hard contain such as this, that will never happen. Leningrad may fall, but the Axis won't go past the Volkhov.

Waiting to deal with the Finns until they hit the Svir is a mistake.

Given the fact that Griefhead is probably going to lose Leningrad a hard contain is more rather than less of a good idea. This is excellent insurance for him.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: Hyacinth

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I personally think Griefhead is wasting good units holding up the Finns when he could be using them to defend Leningrad or Moscow. Let the Finns run wild - they are not going anywhere of any strategic importance.

Yes, a limitation of the game engine.
In truth if Leningrad was taken the morale would have sky rocketed and easily released one army of even volunteers to go for anything from Archangelsk to Moscow.

Kola and Murmansk would have fallen freeing up to 300.000-500.000 Finnish and German troops.

Yes, because the entire Finnish army marching to Yaroslavl is so realistic. Not.

If it was up to me, this entire Finnish front would have been chopped off and not even included in the game; this is a not uncommon design solution for east front game. Wild Finns running amok is deeply silly. Mannerheim would never have allowed it, Leningrad or no.

Finland was a mere cobelligerent with strictly limited aims, not an Axis puppet.

[Hyacinth]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

ORIGINAL: Hyacinth

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I personally think Griefhead is wasting good units holding up the Finns when he could be using them to defend Leningrad or Moscow. Let the Finns run wild - they are not going anywhere of any strategic importance.

Yes, a limitation of the game engine.
In truth if Leningrad was taken the morale would have sky rocketed and easily released one army of even volunteers to go for anything from Archangelsk to Moscow.

Kola and Murmansk would have fallen freeing up to 300.000-500.000 Finnish and German troops.

Yes, because the entire Finnish army marching to Yaroslavl is so realistic. Not.

If it was up to me, this entire Finnish front would have been chopped off and not even included in the game; this is a not uncommon design solution for east front game. Wild Finns running amok is deeply silly. Mannerheim would never have allowed it, Leningrad or no.

Finland was a mere cobelligerent with strictly limited aims, not an Axis puppet.

I am a Finn, we where opportunistic as it comes, we had limited goals when things where not yet certain..

[Oshawott]

I like this blocking action and have done it myself. He doesn't even use particularly good units. Three of them have red triangles. But heavy woods behind river in level 3 forts is almost impossible to penetrate.

I will show over the next couple of turns how little it takes to block the Fins.

[Flaviusx]

Marching the Finnish army into the depths of Russia seems like the worst idea to me since Charles XII of Sweden at Poltava. It would have come to grief for Finland. And Mannerheim knew it. Taking the whole of Karelia was surely enough for him.

Oshawott, you're making good progress at Leningrad and I think you are still on track to cross the Neva around turn 12. Leaving that motorized division exposed is imo a good idea, the main thing is to keep the advance moving. Yeah, it'll probably get routed, but the Soviet is running out of room here quickly and this minor sacrifice is worth it.