PAW 1941-45 me (Axis) vs warspite1 (Allies)

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a shot of the south China fighting currently. The Japs are trying to outflank the Chinese and it's starting to work out pretty well. The supply levels are adequate and the Chinese are starting to fall back and progress is being made.

[larryfulkerson]

I found a timeline movie on You Tube. What the front lines looked like
for each day of the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1rzp2YVxQ

[MikeJ19]

Larry,

I'm guessing that many of us have not played much with the naval aspects of TOAW. So, this is going to help a lot of us learn.

Thanks for the timeline,

[Szilard]

If you feel like a little nerding, translation of the part of the Japanese official history dealing with the Rabaul thru Gona/Buna period in the SW Pacific (excluding the Solomons): http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.nsf/W ... penElement

Really interesting!

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Szilard

If you feel like a little nerding, translation of the part of the Japanese official history dealing with the Rabaul thru Gona/Buna period in the SW Pacific (excluding the Solomons): http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.nsf/W ... penElement

Really interesting!

Thanks a lot Szilard dude. I like it. I could use your advice actually. The more heads working on this the better.

[Szilard]

My advice FWIW would be just to play it as a fun scenario "inspired by" the Pacific War.

If you wanted something more historical I think you'd need to have house rules like:

- Having to secure the "Phase 1" Japanese objectives - securing Malaya/Singapore/Phil/NEI/Rabaul/a few other places - before adventuring further south etc.

- Restrictions on the number of Army units you can use for expansion outside China in 41/42 - the original intention was I think to *reduce* the forces in the Pacific after the initial phase, to concentrate on China and prepare for Russia.

- Some thinking around SEACAP. It seems to me that the Japanese have too much in the early stages?

On the other hand, once the Allies get going, my guess is that they'll be able to achieve equally unhistorical things themselves.

If that's the case, FWIW I guess I'd do what you're doing - expand as much as possible while the sun shines - but expect a lot of Allied bypassing once they get into gear & make sure you have a core inner defence barrier established in good time.

As far as I can see, the historical goal of cutting off Oz as a base doesn't make much difference in the scenario - how do you cut off a continent in TOAW & why would it be essential to the Allies as a base? By the same token, not sure what the trade-offs would be for you in taking Australia. Tying up a lot of force in return for what victory ponts? - dunno. Australia actually supplied a lot of the US forces in the region with food etc etc - apparently Oz was a net reverse lend-lease donor - but don't see that reflected in the scenario. (Historically, invading Oz was a non-starter - the Army refused to provide the 10-12 divisions they thought it would need & the shipping was not available.)

In scenario terms, FWIW I'd look closely at whether you can take Hawaii and knock out India, while the going is good.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Szilard
My advice FWIW would be just to play it as a fun scenario "inspired by" the Pacific War.

There's a scenario named "Pacific War" and for about half a second I thought that's what you meant. Nah, I'm kidding about that being what you meant. And of course that's good advice. I like thtat idea a lot. <two thumbs up>

ORIGINAL: Szilard
If you wanted something more historical I think you'd need to have house rules like:

- (1) Having to secure the "Phase 1" Japanese objectives - securing Malaya/Singapore/Phil/NEI/Rabaul/a few other places - before adventuring further south etc.

- (2) Restrictions on the number of Army units you can use for expansion outside China in 41/42 - the original intention was I think to *reduce* the forces in the Pacific after the initial phase, to concentrate on China and prepare for Russia.

As much as I hate house rules I have to admit that makes sense. I second that motion.

ORIGINAL: Szilard
- Some thinking around SEACAP. It seems to me that the Japanese have too much in the early stages?

On the other hand, once the Allies get going, my guess is that they'll be able to achieve equally unhistorical things themselves.

If that's the case, FWIW I guess I'd do what you're doing - expand as much as possible while the sun shines - but expect a lot of Allied bypassing once they get into gear & make sure you have a core inner defence barrier established in good time.

WTF is SEACAP? and yeah, they probably DO have to much in the early phases depending on what it is.

ORIGINAL: Szilard
As far as I can see, the historical goal of cutting off Oz as a base doesn't make much difference in the scenario - how do you cut off a continent in TOAWX & why would it be essential to the Allies as a base? By the same token, not sure what the trade-offs would be for you in taking Australia. Tying up a lot of force in return for what victory ponts? - dunno. Australia actually supplied a lot of the US forces in the region with food etc etc - apparently Oz was a net reverse lend-lease donor - but don't see that reflected in the scenario. (Historically, invading Oz was a non-starter - the Army refused to provide the 10-12 divisions they thought it would need & the shipping was not available.)

I hear you. My problem is that I've played WITP-AE before and it was vitally important to take Australia out of the war early because of it's strategic location just south of the oil fields in Java and other DEI places. I don't know if this is true or not but I've been told that the Japs were sensitive about their oil gains and wanted enough territory between Australia and the DEI that the Allies wouldn't be able to bomb it with their bombers. They weren't counting on the B-29. You can't hide anything from that bomber, almost. And that plans were drawn up to capture the north coast of Oz and just hold onto it, no further adventures. Supply on the north shore is little to none for the Australians and I imagine it doesn't exist for the Japs; I haven't seen any supply points on the north coast ( which is what makes it a severe problem for the Allies too ). Also, there's a ton of replacements that spawn in Australia and if I could place one of my units on the several hexes that pertain, then I could put a stopper in the bottle for reinforcements. At least a little bit.

An ivasion of Australia WOULD take more resources than I could possibly get out of it and it's probably not possible at any rate. I see the wisdom of house rule #1 above and before any invasion of Oz takes place there must first be the reduction of Malaya and Sumatra and Java, etc. After all THAT has happened there may not be any remaining forces left over for an Oz adventure. As it is shipping is really limited for what I need ( want ) to do on the map. There's lots of important places I want to grab while it's still possible ( no Allied carriers dare sneak out to the south pacific without BB's ) and I'm having to prioritize the targets. I get 37500 tons of shipping each turn and invariably I run out before I have moved everybody to where they need to be. I need to get my perimeter established and able to defend itself before the Allies start their raids and invasions sometime in mid-1942 I'm thinking. Rob may want to wait longer than that just to be able to include the carrier he gets in late '42, the Exeter ? that's not it...some name with an E in it, not Enterprise that's already in theater.

To isolate Oz I was going to grab all the smaller islands between Guadalcanal and, say, Tahiti and place Sea Int planes on them so that the Allies would have to pass through the gauntlet to get closer to Oz. It would tend to stiffle troop transports unless they were heavily escorted. It might lengthen the war long enough for me to win the game. Besides it makes for a more exciting AAR.

ORIGINAL: Szilard
In scenario terms, FWIW I'd look closely at whether you can take Hawaii and knock out India, while the going is good.

I've already got Midway so taking Pearl isn't impossible at all. There's some smaller islands that might help that effort that I might need to take first ( Johnston Island, etc. ) but yeah that's possible. In fact, there's so many reinforcements that spawn there that taking the islands would pay for all the losses it would cost.

And taking out India sounds like the kind of thing I should do. It would remove China as an active theater because China gets it's supply from India...it flows to the east from India I'm thinking. I've already scopped out the port of Calcutta and I can't decide whether or not it's too close to a main hub for reinforcements ( New Deli, by rail ) and that taking it would require at least 5 divisions to attempt it and another three to keep it going once a foothold is established. As I recall the Japs get some reinforcements in India, I forget the name of the city, it's in the far east of India almost to the Burma border. I'd almost have to drop a lot of the bridges that feed the Calcutta area to isolate the battlefield to prevent the introduction of more combatants. It sounds like a long drawn-out campaign instead of just a battle. On the other hand the supply situation would be better probably since there's a supply point in Calcutta IIRC. This deserves more study and maybe a discussion about where I should go next. Your advice is valuable because I'm still casting about for a good plan.

[MikeJ19]

Larry,

Great discussion and thought at the strategic level - this is already an incredible AAR for learning.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,
Great discussion and thought at the strategic level - this is already an incredible AAR for learning.

And you're part of it Mike dude. For instance: I have no idea whether or not I should do something up in the Aleutians, Dutch Harbor may be lightly defended. [ But you'd probably need to scan the map for an accurate answer....I'll see what I can do go get a saved game file to you guys, an up to date one. ] And if I DID capture the port at Dutch Harbor should I try something at Seattle? Your advice is valuable Mike. All you guys. I'm all ears.

[larryfulkerson]

This is the saved game file for Jap turn 3. Just unzip it and load it as a saved game. My password is "password" without the quotes but I don't think you'll need it. You can check out the condition of everybody and where everything is and the dialogs like inventory and OOB and maybe move some units around and do some attacking and so on. Enjoy.

[hingram]

Hawaii makes better sense because it probably represents the only airfields between the mainland and the Western Pacific.

The Japanese enjoyed great success in early 1942 because they were generally unopposed in an area where the attacker had all the advantages. By August of 1942, the Japanese were on the defensive and losing in the Solomons. In 1943, America started drafting men in their 40's for farm and rear duties which freed up more fighting men. Meanwhile, the Japanese were doing the one thing they did better than anyone; dying in massive numbers. So while the American war machine was growing rapidly, the Japanese war machine was shrinking rapidly.

The Japanese focus at the start of the war was oil and hitting the Americans so hard, they would sue for peace. If the Japanese had taken Hawaii, it would have made things very messy for the Americans.
In the game, using the Hawaiian and Midway air bases for Sea Interdiction makes a lot of sense. That's a large amount of ocean to cross in order to invade an island.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: hingram
Hawaii makes better sense because it probably represents the only airfields between the mainland and the Western Pacific.

The Japanese enjoyed great success in early 1942 because they were generally unopposed in an area where the attacker had all the advantages. By August of 1942, the Japanese were on the defensive and losing in the Solomons. In 1943, America started drafting men in their 40's for farm and rear duties which freed up more fighting men. Meanwhile, the Japanese were doing the one thing they did better than anyone; dying in massive numbers. So while the American war machine was growing rapidly, the Japanese war machine was shrinking rapidly.

The Japanese focus at the start of the war was oil and hitting the Americans so hard, they would sue for peace. If the Japanese had taken Hawaii, it would have made things very messy for the Americans.
In the game, using the Hawaiian and Midway air bases for Sea Interdiction makes a lot of sense. That's a large amount of ocean to cross in order to invade an island.

I really like the way you think Hank dude. I agree with you and it just makes sense to go after Pearl to really wreck the game for Rob. And after Pearl is down, Oz will be a LOT easier to take because of all the reinforcements that spawn at Pearl won't. I'll see what I can put together. I need more recon of the islands.

[larryfulkerson]

I received some moves from Rob about 2.5 minutes ago and I watched the playback and one of the things I noticed was the movement of some of the Bataan, PI defenders to Manila. I've got enough recon assets in place that my recon is done except for Bataan, it's still invisible yet. I've taken a look at my attackers on the southeast side and they are about 65% supply and healthy so I think I can get maybe two times 1-dot attacks out of them. So I need a new division to head this way NOW to arrive here on time. I don't want to make this a long drawn out fight. In real life it took until April before the PI fell. I can't afford for it to take that long. I still need to take Java with these people when I get done here.

[larryfulkerson]

Of the nine BB's in the inventory, two are down for repairs, refit, rearm, repaint, recalibrate, renew, and renovate the ship a little bit. Maybe a week tops. She will probably be ready next turn. The Nagato is in the shipyards at Hong Kong and it's 96% now so it'll be ready soon, NOW if need be. I need to bombard Manila still so I'll take a look around and see what else is available because I may need to use the Nagato as part of the bombardment package this turn.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what going on near Singapore. I've already started the take down of Sumatra and flown some planes in to contest the ownership of Singapore. I notice some CD guns there and I think maybe I can grab a hex or two of the city from the sea if I can just find the troops to do it. Lemme look around.

[larryfulkerson]

I did a save game and then zipped up the file and attached it here below. You can download it, then unzip it and load it as a saved game. Then check out all the dialogs and reports and maybe move some units around and maybe attack something. Enjoy. This is Jap T4.

[larryfulkerson]

I flew the Combined Fleet HQ unit down to Port Moresby so that I can base the ships there until I get some interference from the Allies then I'll move it to Truk or somewhere. I've been consolidating the ports and cities on the larger islands I've captured. Turning them all friendly so I can base planes there as well as ships at the ports. Once that's done I'll tackle Singapore seriously.

[larryfulkerson]

I landed the 36th Inf Div near Kuantan on the east coast of Malaya in order to see if I can't save my paratrooper unit. I may need another division yet.

[larryfulkerson]

I moved four carriers to Padang from Port Moresby and they had 40 MP's left when they arrived. This is the first step, the staging of the carriers closer to Ceylon and the Maldives. I'm going to go hunting for the Allied ships, the Commonwealth ships I saw at the Maldives last turn. They may not still be there, maybe having moved to Oz or somewhere. I'll use DD's as the recon ships and follow on with the carriers.

[Szilard]

Looking quickly thru the reinforcement schedule, seems that just about all US land forces appear in Hawaii somewhere. If that's right, I guess taking the islands wins you the war - how would the US take them back?

But it seems gamey ...