Which wargame has done it best?

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Wish I could say and show you more but not allowed yet.

Honestly is exciting and I reckon perfect for you.

It's not a future Matrix release though. Publisher unknown at moment. I'd love it to be AWNT first game to be published as it looks a cracker to start a publishing company off with!

You never know stranger things have happened, I imagine. Oh just to clarify this isn't some sort of hint AWNT is publishing it, though I suppose it could be seen as a hint we'd love to publish it!

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

"I know of a tactical game in development that looks like it will be THE squad based WW2 tactical game out there. Apparently it's going to be ASL that looks great and fully featured. I've seen some vids and I have to say haven't been this excited about a game in development for a long time."

Hmmm VERY intriguing indeed.

Great places start with small beginnings eh. Matrix Games grew out of the love of a single game.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Actually, the thread has been conducted fairly well guys.

I like the question, I am also looking for the answer. But you did say - not too tactical, not too strategic, not too limited, and not too time consuming? Or did I misunderstand the question? My first answer was in post #7, 'thirty years on and there is no game that can do it right'. Everybody here is giving good suggestions that send me scrambling to their forums and YouTubes. Some seem agonizingly close, and people may like their choice but still admit the shortcomings. Which means it's not the best, unless the search is for the best that floats to the top of the swill we are drowning in.

Weeeell ya asks a question and then the threads takes a life of its own

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: wodin

Wish I could say and show you more but not allowed yet.

Honestly is exciting and I reckon perfect for you.

It's not a future Matrix release though. Publisher unknown at moment. I'd love it to be AWNT first game to be published as it looks a cracker to start a publishing company off with!

You never know stranger things have happened, I imagine. Oh just to clarify this isn't some sort of hint AWNT is publishing it, though I suppose it could be seen as a hint we'd love to publish it!

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

"I know of a tactical game in development that looks like it will be THE squad based WW2 tactical game out there. Apparently it's going to be ASL that looks great and fully featured. I've seen some vids and I have to say haven't been this excited about a game in development for a long time."

Hmmm VERY intriguing indeed.

Great places start with small beginnings eh. Matrix Games grew out of the love of a single game.

Oh I have seen a LOT worse in behaviour out there You guys are all fairly well behaved in this lady's opinion.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: wodin

Wish I could say and show you more but not allowed yet.

Honestly is exciting and I reckon perfect for you.

It's not a future Matrix release though. Publisher unknown at moment. I'd love it to be AWNT first game to be published as it looks a cracker to start a publishing company off with!

You never know stranger things have happened, I imagine. Oh just to clarify this isn't some sort of hint AWNT is publishing it, though I suppose it could be seen as a hint we'd love to publish it!

Great places start with small beginnings eh. Matrix Games grew out of the love of a single game.

Oh I have seen a LOT worse in behaviour out there You guys are all fairly well behaved in this lady's opinion.

A backhanded compliment?

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: asl3d

ORIGINAL: wodin

Wish I could say and show you more but not allowed yet.

Honestly is exciting and I reckon perfect for you.

It's not a future Matrix release though. Publisher unknown at moment. I'd love it to be AWNT first game to be published as it looks a cracker to start a publishing company off with!

You never know stranger things have happened, I imagine. Oh just to clarify this isn't some sort of hint AWNT is publishing it, though I suppose it could be seen as a hint we'd love to publish it!

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

"I know of a tactical game in development that looks like it will be THE squad based WW2 tactical game out there. Apparently it's going to be ASL that looks great and fully featured. I've seen some vids and I have to say haven't been this excited about a game in development for a long time."

Hmmm VERY intriguing indeed.

It's great news Wodin.

I see that here there are many friends who are fans of strategic games, with large units, immense operative terrain (even at the level of states or continents complete), and the time scale is of the order of days, weeks, or months.

I started with this type of games with Tactic II (Avalon Hill), many years ago. But when Squad Leader and then Advanced Squad Leader appeared, I understood wargames at this level of scale are much more exciting.

Naturally, with the assistance of computers, and the appearance of Tigers on the Hunt and, above all, Heroes of Stalingrad, the dynamism of wargame has been increased.

A scenario is played in a few hours !!!!!!!!

I was pondering Heroes of Stalingrad back during the D-Day sale, it got beat out by TOAW IV

[Kuokkanen]

1 more war game that is pretty darn good: Jagged Alliance 2 Gold. Reinforced with mods, that game is pretty darn close to the ultimate squad scale war game. Can you name me a game that does it better?

[Michael T]

I know of a tactical game in development that looks like it will be THE squad based WW2 tactical game out there. Apparently it's going to be ASL that looks great and fully featured. I've seen some vids and I have to say haven't been this excited about a game in development for a long time.

Please let it be that it has multiplayer mode. Via online or PBEM play.

[sPzAbt653]

May be Heart of Iron 3 or 4?

Do you have these ? I do not, but I got the HOI4 Demo and tried it for a bit. I'd like to know what you think. I found Strategic Command[3] to be a better game. HOI seemed more of a 'rule learning asset management' game. But wow, watch the YouTubes on that game ... them dudes are serious, they get out the multiple monitors and com-links and call for pizza delivery!

I was impressed with the HOI map - the zoom levels are sweet - but it doesn't go far enough in detail or scale for a real war game. Unless that is a feature not available in Demo Version?

EDIT: By the way, how did we make it 99 posts without a mention of HOI for Best Ever? [I guess because it is not!]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

By the way, how did we make it 99 posts without a mention of.....

warspite1

By the way, how did we make it 108 posts without you having the basic courtesy to respond to my post 93?

[sPzAbt653]

I'm taking time out of every day to review nominations in an unbiased way, and then post a few quick facts so that we can move on to the next.

I read your first post, reviewed your nomination, and posted the facts. Basic Courtesy ends there. I haven't even read your other posts because there is no need. You can argue the sky is green, I only need to tell you once that it is not.

But let's give you an easy out - World in Flames is the best game ever, it sits atop a mountain on its own, it cannot be improved upon, and no other game can do any better.

No need to respond, you have won!

[warspite1]

Thank you for that mature response.

If you enter into a debate with someone then the polite thing would be to continue that debate when asked a question - especially when the question is posed on the back of a snide comment.

This has nothing to do with winning – and everything to do with simply making a case for our own nominations – but the fact you see this in those terms says quite a lot. You said:

I'm not against peoples choices…... It's that when people point out what they think is the game that has 'done it best' is one that obviously doesn't….

So effectively you are right in all things? And then the equally self-important:

I read your first post, reviewed your nomination, and posted the facts (my italics for emphasis).

So what? You are the final arbiter on what is and isn’t best? and you really don’t realise that whether, for example, someone finds an editor to be vital/of no importance, then that is an opinion and not a fact?

You then following that up with the disingenuous

I was not commenting on anyone's opinion,

Er...okay

But the real doozy was the beginning of that post:

and again I will state that I am not picking on anyone's choice of what they like the best, but we are discussing what is the best

So anyone who thinks a game is the best because they like a game best is wrong? To you, liking a game has no part in whether you think it the best? How does that jive with someone’s personal opinion? So what? You expect someone to say Yes I’ve tried WITP-AE but couldn’t get on with it, the game mechanics simply weren’t fun, the interface is betraying it’s age and some of the data appears very small on screen – not good for my eyesight. Oh and if it wasn’t for the helpful people on the forum I wouldn’t even have got anywhere as the manual is really not good. But despite all that I would say it is the best.

I mean really what the hell?

[asl3d]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: asl3d

ORIGINAL: wodin

Wish I could say and show you more but not allowed yet.

Honestly is exciting and I reckon perfect for you.

It's not a future Matrix release though. Publisher unknown at moment. I'd love it to be AWNT first game to be published as it looks a cracker to start a publishing company off with!

You never know stranger things have happened, I imagine. Oh just to clarify this isn't some sort of hint AWNT is publishing it, though I suppose it could be seen as a hint we'd love to publish it!

It's great news Wodin.

I see that here there are many friends who are fans of strategic games, with large units, immense operative terrain (even at the level of states or continents complete), and the time scale is of the order of days, weeks, or months.

I started with this type of games with Tactic II (Avalon Hill), many years ago. But when Squad Leader and then Advanced Squad Leader appeared, I understood wargames at this level of scale are much more exciting.

Naturally, with the assistance of computers, and the appearance of Tigers on the Hunt and, above all, Heroes of Stalingrad, the dynamism of wargame has been increased.

A scenario is played in a few hours !!!!!!!!

I was pondering Heroes of Stalingrad back during the D-Day sale, it got beat out by TOAW IV

Well MrsWargamer, don't worry. Even the best Squad Leaders make unexplainable mistakes.

It's the, old and known, stress of pre-shop. Matrix Games is a lot guilty for all this.

But, you're still in time to end your remorse and buy Heroes of Stalingrad.

It's important that you remain at peace with your conscience...

[wodin]

The big killer for me with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting mechanic. Not being able to do recon by fire and constantly having to re=spot before you can shoot ruined the game for me. It in effect stops you from doing the main German tactic used in Stalingrad. That's firing on likely positions to suppress any enemy whilst assault group moves up. Baffled me why you'd design a Stalingrad game where a major game mechanic actually stops you from using historical German tactics used in the actual fighting with in the city.

[asl3d]

ORIGINAL: wodin

The big killer for me with LnL Stalingrad was the spotting mechanic. Not being able to do recon by fire and constantly having to re=spot before you can shoot ruined the game for me. It in effect stops you from doing the main German tactic used in Stalingrad. That's firing on likely positions to suppress any enemy whilst assault group moves up. Baffled me why you'd design a Stalingrad game where a major game mechanic actually stops you from using historical German tactics used in the actual fighting with in the city.

Yes, you're right.

I almost didn't use the artillery fire onboard with the help of spotters. I only use the mortars over vehicles and when they have direct LOS over their target.

But this isn't a big problem, at least in the real battle in Stalingrad.

The Soviets discovered that if their front line came very close to the German front line, the German artillery couldn't fire at them if they didn't want to cause casualties on their own comrades with "friendly fire." The Russians so advanced their lines that there were units of one side on the first floor of one building and units of the other side on the ground floor, for example.

The key in Stalingrad is the bravery of the infantry, hand to hand, and in this situation the Soviets managed to level the game board ....

[jack54]

I'm going to give a shout out to Command:MANO. The size and detail of the data base is staggering. There's an editor so plenty of community created scenarios. The map is the whole globe including detained ocean depths.


Real time is not my preference but IMHO Command does it right.

Edit: I forgot to mention one of my favorite ideas... Command Live ...scenarios involving today's hot-spots.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Yes I’ve tried WITP-AE ... I would say it is the best.

I hope you don't mind my editing your commentary for brevity. I'm glad you've finally come around to my point of view after all these years mate.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Yes I’ve tried WITP-AE ... I would say it is the best.

I hope you don't mind my editing your commentary for brevity. I'm glad you've finally come around to my point of view after all these years mate.

+1

[sPzAbt653]

Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations - if it is the best for Air and Naval Ops, what would be neat would be to add something similar to something like TOAW, then there would be a best of all three ops in one game. My experience with Air games is limited to Richthofen's war and [what was that Avalon Hill game with round air counters, it was all about the air war over western Europe], and my Naval experience is limited to Wooden Ships and Iron Men. So I have little to base an opinion on, and nothing recent other than Strategic Command and TOAW [both would not be good models for Air Nor Naval ops].

[wodin]

I'm talking about spotting infantry here not Arty spotting.

[asl3d]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I'm talking about spotting infantry here not Arty spotting.

Ok, I understand.

I guess it's a way to simulate the ASL "Concealment" concept. It's not the same, it's clear, but it's a way of simulating that the units are protected, not exposed and covered. You know who's there but the unit it's covered and you don't see it well. ASL still allows it to fire at the units with "Concealment" though with a heavy DRM, and here, in Heroes of Stalingrad, shooting is simply not allowed. The unit must first expose itself, get out of its protection. Well, it's not that bad either.

Remember that one of the classic tactics in ASL is to try that the greater number of your units win the "Concealment." It's logical. Men aren't Superman and they always try to take cover and expose themselves as little as possible. Here, in Heroes of Stalingrad, the "Concealment" is given directly to you. The mechanics are simpler but not absurd.

I don't defend it. Nor does it completely convince me. I just try to explain and understand it.

But I think it's not a critical or fatal error. You can win any scenario without considering this "handicap."