"insert funny title here" DBB-C Jorge(A) vs Runnersan(J)

[HansBolter]

You had exactly what you should have had in that port, nothing of real value.

The raid was a supreme waste of time and assets.

If he moves up the coast and hits what you have in Brisbane that you shouldn't have there, he can actually make something out of this raid.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

time to start a discussion on Palembang; the date is Jan14.42 and there has not been any attempt, other than the occasional submarine, to challenge the sea corridor between Singapore, Palembang and Java

the obvious consequence is that I now have a fortress, a "fortress Palembang". It is important to mention that we are playing DaBabes, in which refineries WON'T create supply, hence I don't see it as a gamey tactic.

This is the situation of the base, at a high level; there are still 3 more LCUs (1 art, 2 base force) on their way. There are also other LCUs on Djambi (token engineers to destroy oil, and base forces in Oosthaven and Praboemoelieh (level 2 airbase)
Almost all of Palembang's LCU reinforcements are coming from Singapore, key exception, important exception is the 18th British division.. one of the best available to the Allies in early war (historically it was sent to Singapore, where it was thrown piecemeal and ended surrendering without influencing the battle outcome

Focus is now on landing as much supply as I can, I have convoys coming from Capetown, Colombo... that I wish I could accelerate

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You had exactly what you should have had in that port, nothing of real value.

The raid was a supreme waste of time and assets.

If he moves up the coast and hits what you have in Brisbane that you shouldn't have there, he can actually make something out of this raid.

I totally agree!
I believe the worst wastage was in terms of opportunity cost; the KB, at this amphibious advantage stage, should be supporting invasions, not raiding. The cost in fuel, airplanes or pilots pale in comparison to the days lost

I also set the 2 cruisers to run at full speed on direction north; there were a few xAPs and a AMC that I wanted to run away, but at the end I decided against, because their top speed was 14/ 15 knots... which puts them on range (long range) of the KB even at full speed run. I decided they would have a chance to survive and repair at port)

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Based on intelligence, I believe he has already committed most of his "spare" divisions to Singapore, plus he has historical troop levels at Luzon. That makes me believe Palembang cannot be conquered before Singapore falls.. Singapore will, of course, fall but not in January. With some luck it should survive to mid February, with very good luck late February.

Singapore defense is based on 11th Indian Division (almost at full strength) + 22nd and 23rd Australian brigades + a level 3 fort that with some luck will reach level 4 before the assault starts
I am debating about changing leaders; 11th Indian has a very poor leader, but would it pay back to spend the PP?

I already spent in changing ABDA (command HQ in range of Palembang) and the 9th Indian Division (at Palembang, recovering from loses at Khota Bharu)

Maybe it will make sense to put better leaders in Singapore, so that they delay their defeat?

This is Singapore as of Jan14.42 ; Australians are on their way, they were at Mersing

[Jorge_Stanbury]

LCUs at Palembang as of Jan14; some additional ART and base forces are unloading

Notice:
- 224 group RAF for torpedoes
- Sarawak force (from Kuching) and 109 RN base force (Malaya) for some (few) CD guns; a few is better than none
- engineers to wreck oil and refineries [:D] and to attempt to reach fort level 4 (currently at 3.14)
- 9th Indian slowly recovering from Malaya battles
- 18th British sucking devices brought by latest Capetown convoy

[RangerJoe]

Instead of air units at Palembang, garrison and build up the airbase behind it. That base is not vulnerable to naval bombardments while Palembang is vulnerable. Also, it allows a much higher AV garrison for Palembang.

Consider taking a fragment of each unit out of Singapore so you won't have to buy them back and then wait for them to show up. They can fill up with everything but infantry squads which would then make nice base support units.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

we have a HR about no intentional use of fragments. so I won't/ can't do that

With regards of airbases, I plan to rotate squadrons between Palembang and Praboemoelieh; I am not sure if I should increase the airbase, level 2 is adequate for the kind of airplanes I will operate (single engine). I am below stacking limit, and I don't think I should send more AV to Palembang; at least not from Singapore. Maybe I will take a look at possible reinforcements from other places; India for example... or at least put some reinforcements to sea and decide later on if I disembark or withdraw them

It is not too terrible to be bombarded in Palembang, as he will have to run a gauntlet with Allied surface TFs, mines, PTs, coastal guns, to then bomb his future oil and fuel; of which Japan's long term survival depends

Distance from Singkawang is also relatively long enough so that I might predict his move, and give me time to rebase to Praboemoelieh, then there is also a rail line to Oosthaven, which means that damaged planes can be transported to "safety"

[821Bobo]

Bombardment will also destroy oil fields in Palembang and thats not something Japan wants to do.

[RangerJoe]

Protect the Sunda Strait so he does not rush to Osthaven and isolate you in Palembang. That for the Japanese means no sea invasion and can mean no river shock attack at Palembang.

He still has better fighters and pilots so he can sweep your fighters, although it can get costly. The he can attack your SCTFs with long range Nells and Bettys.

Does no intentional fragments mean no reinforcement/withdrawl by air? I mean if you start withdrawing some of the unit and keep doing so until you can try and get the heavier elements by ship it can speed up the loading. If he is taking so long to take Malaya, he just might come at Java from the east while also slipping into Merak thus trapping any naval elements in the area. The only way to get out then might be the Malaca Straight which would be subject to attack by LBA.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes I will try to protect it, mostly with the Dutch;
but the thing is, Sunda strait route is a dilemma; yes he will reduce his loses, but at significant cost in time, AND during the early amphibious advantage; it is a long walk to Palembang

At the end of the day, he will capture Palembang, there is nothing I can do about it; the objective is to make this costly in time, blood and resources, in that order. Those divisions he commit to Palembang, and he will need at least 4 or 5; won't be available for additional expansion elsewhere. Once the amphibious advantage is lost, he can't invade easily anymore, and he lacks the specialized shipment required to move more than one division, and that using AK-t which are not ideal amphibious ships

With regards to fragments, and this is a HR I copied from "Operation FS" scenario (DaBabeS); the idea is that if a unit fragments, for whatever reason, I should try my best to recombine it. That means that since I still have an open sea line between Singapore and Palembang, I should try my best to move/ follow the entire LCU to its final destination instead of operating as fragments

[jwolf]

I'm puzzled about the "fragments" HR. I think I see the sort of gamey things it is intended to prevent. But there are times when you will naturally want to fragment a unit -- for example, splitting up a division for different targets. Will this not be allowed by your HR?

[RangerJoe]

Yes, it is best to combine fragments. But when it is absolute that there is no intentional creation of fragments then that means that if the entire paratroop unit can't make to the destination by air, then no part of it can be dropped. That also means no airlifting in of reinforcements unless the entire unit can be airlifted in.

Plus, I was thinking of close to the end of Singapore's defence of trying to withdraw units a little at a time.

Does that also include spitting of the divisions into combat teams? (A/B/C?) If not, the divisions could be split and one of them could be pulled out for use elsewhere. Also, that would show up as more units on recon.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

that is OK;

the HR is :
no intentional creation of fragments. fragments should not be used operationally and shall be reunited with parent as expeditiously as possible. NOTE: dividing a unit in 3 (A/ B/ C) is OK. Evacuations are also OK

and it was based on Operation FS rule: "Intentional creation of fragments to acquire an operational advantage is not permitted. Fragments created by normal process, such as left-overs from sea or air transport shall not be used operationally and must be rejoined with its parent as expeditiously as possible.

The key word is "intent", fragments will get created, and sometimes it won't be possible to recombine, but actively creating fragments to avoid unit destruction or to add support to multiple bases is not allowed

For paras, it basically means I should not launch another air invasion before recombining it

Dividing a division into 3 segments (A, B, C) is also allowed in our game (but not possible in Operation FS)

[RangerJoe]

Okay, better clarity.

So you can divide those divisions into thirds and evacuate a third now, then try to air evacuate some more in the final days. At least that would save rebuilding the entire unit from scratch. Plus those units could go to Australia while the Australians that come in at Aden could then be used in India if needed. If you haven't combined the AAA into the larger unit, you could evacuate just one part for the same reason, after all it is still its own unit.

[HansBolter]

Mine the living shite outta the Sunda Straits.

Every last Dutch Mine should be deployed there and as many Brit mines as are available.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I think I run out of mines building Palembang, unless there is a rare mine that nobody uses that I somehow missed... checking now

I deployed mines very early, because I was not expecting a fortress Palembang, I mean, it is standard practice to capture Palembang in late December at most.. so the original plan was simply to put mines there and hope for the best; I also mined Canton, Palmyra, Baker, etc. but these count less because they take USN pools which are not as available in the DEI

Looking at my pools:
Mk10 is for USN subs; Mk6 is for USN ships
I depleted already Dutch-British mines; except submarine ones, which I believe are MkII and MkIID
the rest are Soviet or not yet available

next turn I will start redeploying subs to minelaying ops

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Dec17.42

For the last 2 turns, KB attacked Brisbane, and once again, pretty much mopped up the floor with the poor xAKLs/ xAKs there. In perspective, I should had attempted to run away, even at low freighter speed, while he was bombing Sydney

In other news:
- He invaded Mindanao, this is good because it will suck up troops
- Invasion TF moving to Balikpapan, it will only be contested with whatever is available there
- He is bombing Manila, but so far no attempt to strike. I countered this by recapturing Cabanatuan, more to annoy and to keep Clark below stacking level than anything



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Brisbane , at 96,160

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 64
B5N2 Kate x 119
D3A1 Val x 116

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAK Lowana, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Koolinda, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAKL Comara, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Mortlake Bank, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Wear, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CM Bungaree, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Ipswitch, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Mulubinda, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Empire Hamble, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Bidelia, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kooyong, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Launceton, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Lahaina, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Kindur, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAP Macdhui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAP Marella, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Karuah, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Koolama, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AM Townsville, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Noora, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Pelton Bank, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMC Cap des Palmes, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Mulcra, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Yandra, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Nevadan, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Capitaine Illiaquer, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Kaiping, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Burwah, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Yarra, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Oorama, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Gorgon, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
17th PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (7 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes

Massive explosion on xAP Koolama






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Brisbane , at 96,160

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 62
B5N2 Kate x 50
D3A1 Val x 87

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAKL Lahaina, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Gorgon, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Mulcra, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Mortlake Bank, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Empire Hamble, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AMC Cap des Palmes, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Koolama, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Prusa, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Mulubinda, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kaiping, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Wear, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Coolana, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Kini, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Koolinda, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Marella, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Hetton Bank, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Sjobris, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Burwah, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kindur, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Macdhui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Yarra, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Repair Shipyard hits 5
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 11000 feet
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
12 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
10 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
City Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
17th PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Brisbane , at 96,160

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 62
B5N2 Kate x 69
D3A1 Val x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
xAKL Lahaina, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Koolinda, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMC Cap des Palmes, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Coolana, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Koolama, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Marella, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Koonda, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Empire Hamble, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Minnipa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Burwah, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Kaiping, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Macdhui, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 7000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

[RangerJoe]

Don't park ships there this early. If you do and the enemy comes calling, sail them out in small or one ship task forces, different directions, different speeds, different way points, and so on. Get them into as many different hexes as is possible and if the enemy does not break their air units into thirds, 27 bombers just might attack one xAKL! Also, if there are ports nearby the main port, send some there and auto disband them.

Think of a mess of cockroaches when the light comes on!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

true, but these were not parked, they were mostly running supply to smaller bases. They got parked when the KB arrived

still nothing valuable was lost; and it cost ~4 pilots to Japan + a lot of fuel

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Jan19.42

- Balikpapan invaded, I am a bit disappointed about the performance of the coastal guns and mines; only a few hits scored

- KB is MIA... is it going north?

- Things are getting fun at Luzon...