Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

[Lowpe]

China is the theater that AFBs love to hate and gnash their teeth over. Not me![:)] What a great place to fight in a really different style -- this will be a new style of warfare.

If Japan wants all of China, they probably will end up getting it but the cost in time, material, and diverted troops will be high.

Since Japan usually diverts a lot of forces here, far greater than real life, it is only fitting the Allies look to counter: Indian mountain gun units will bolster a bit some AT capability. Some AA will make it over to too. I think the 40mm bofors are air mobile...with all the Chinese HQs who cares about the mechanized support. The air bridge will be vibrant and perhaps one of the greatest priorities of the Allied High Command in 1941 and 1942.

A nifty little trick is finding hexes that are good for Festung no retreat defenses, and hexes that threaten multiple rail or road lines. Pretty much no fort building in most bases.

I doubt I defend Chungking with a ton of troops. Ultimately, I like the Kweiyang to Paoshan line and way too many AFBs give this up. Chinese 2 AT units and Heavy Artillery will probably go here...rather than deploying them to the expected Sian push. Depending upon Japan's axis of advance they might go to the mountain road junction north of Ankang. It is a question of pool replacements which I understand to be scarce. Plus they need time to dig in at their selected hex, and also upgrade to the better field pieces. And finally, 1st and 2nd Tank Division thrust from Hong King needs to be considered.

There are 5 units I think that can be bought out and sent to India, and that will be a high priority. Several of those units start to the east, and they will be used aggressively until destroyed, respawn at Chungking and then sent west to Paoshan area.

So, this is some initial thoughts on China -- expect lots of surprises here.

[Encircled]

Nothing really to add, but piling supplies into Rangoon for China is a must.

Port Blair is a good speed bump, as is Koepang/Ambon.

Depending on where he goes for at the start, might be worth buying out the USAAF fighter units in the Philipines and sending them to the DEI/Singapore.


If he really goes for it, you could be faced with Nav Guard and A/s support units taking loads of islands in the pacific, and low level naval attacks from Mavis on your supply routes.

Really makes it hard to move stuff without damage until you can get some fighters to Oz and the Pacific.

But good to see you playing the side of truth and justice Lowpe [;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Yeah, the concept isn't bad, but then I think he is missing a couple places with 6/9's.

However, I can tell you from experience that allied units just in the terrain are more difficult to extract as the IJ. In a base, they are more vulnerable to attacks (Air/Naval) even with the high forts. Its just game mechanics. I have always ascribed that to: "In a base, you know exactly where they are. In terrain, there are 40 mi2 to hide in." I'm not sure this is accurate, we'd need Gary to answer that, but I can state that the game mechanics do play out this way.

+1, it is all tradeoffs

Base benefits: support is shared, prep bonuses

Base cons: Owner Can't sweep, cost supply to build temporary forts, limited supply draw, runways can be bombed to destroy supplies.

[Lowpe]

Is it possible, to get this unit into Burma and from there into China to help with the Kweiyang to Paoshan defense?

The Stuart I can almost penetrate Type 1 Medium tanks.

Prep for Tsuyung critical road junction north of Kunming. Ship from Calcutta to Rangoon, join supply convoy for advance into danger area. Flying Tigers LRCAP/CAP the convoy in. Rail to Lashio and move to Kunming (supply depot) and train.

Would the loss of 50 Stuarts really weaken India that much. If so, I think some back room dealing can convince FDR to send a tank unit to India to offset their loss (and to payback for Warspite).

Their effective use depends upon the air bridge to China...lose Ledo and the move is greatly reduced.

Sounds like a plan.[:)] The birth of the Chinese Expeditionary Army. Jungle Guns, AA, and Stuarts.

[RangerJoe]

I would buy that unit out early when it is cheap, then leave it somewhere to garrison while it trains. Someone mentioned that it was an infantry unit that they put into tanks which is why the experience and morale are so low.

I would turn stockpile Chinese infantry replacements, essentially all replacements except for support. The Chinese units need undisabled support more than anything, especially if you are not going to be in the bases. I would save the 105mms for the artillery units. Trash ALL of the buyable Chinese units before buying them out, then send them to India to train, reequip, and give those the infantry squads. Backed by Commonwealth artillery and armour, they can be quite formidable. Alfred did post about defending China but I forget where it is. But basically, defend the bases. If those units are destroyed there, by the time the Japanese get to Chungking, they have respawned.

But I like the idea of defending in the mountains. You will get some supplies there, you will be able fly some in, and it will be difficult for the Japanese to evict you. Especially since the Japanese could be within range of bombers from India.

One unit from the AVG can go to Singapore. The computer AI has done that to me. [:(]

Don't forget to have a good garrison at Pegu. [8|]

If you are going to fly lots of supplies over the Hump, consider buying out the Chinese air units and have the bombers fly supplies as well. The fighters can train until you get better airframes.

Consider having your Buffaloes at 100% training at 20k to avoid sweeps but they might still engage bombers. [8|]

If he cuts Singapore off from the rest of Malaya (and why not?) then save at least a piece of every unit so they can rebuild. Even if you don't put too many squads in them, with the support, engineers, artillery and AAA, they can protect a base and provide a garrison for anti-paratroopers as well as fulfill the garrison requirements.

[Lowpe]

A lot of that is common practice...and I like to be uncommon.

This is a pbem - so I Won't be gaming the PP system. No air transfers into free HQ's in command unless it makes logical sense to and the HQ is active on map.

I won't be doing too much 1000 foot naval bombing runs except by F, FB, AB. Once in a blue moon by TB and PA.

Those guys are headed to China. The more I think about, the more I think it is a solid move. The challenge will be to get enough supplies there so they can upgrade to Stuart Is.

Protecting Rangoon and Pegu not too high on my priority list. More on Burma later.

I have had many conversations with Alfred and others about defending China, but more importantly I have first hand knowledge on how to take China.

[Yaab]

Is this game with stacking limits for all land hexes?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Is this game with stacking limits for all land hexes?

Nope. Stock. Updated AndyMac Scenario 2.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The Stuart I can almost penetrate Type 1 Medium tanks.

If the only thing they accomplish is to force him to upgrade his tanks in China to type I in 1942, that is, in itelf, a victory for you in the lost vehicle points. Typr 89A to Type 97 to Type 1... that's a lot of vehicle points for units that could remein type 89As into 1944, using up all the leftover Type 89As and then 97s in the pool from other units that upgraded.

I'm not sold on the mountain guns though as anti-tank devices. You will have to be careful where you deploy them. They will be outranged by everything but Japanese mortars and 75mm and not very effective unless he stacks his tanks with the few light divisions that Japan has in China exclusively.

[RangerJoe]

If anything, there is an American anti-tank unit with 37mm guns that comes in later. That unit goes to SWPAC but it should be air transportable. That could be a nasty surprise!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The Stuart I can almost penetrate Type 1 Medium tanks.

If the only thing they accomplish is to force him to upgrade his tanks in China to type I in 1942, that is, in itelf, a victory for you in the lost vehicle points. Typr 89A to Type 97 to Type 1... that's a lot of vehicle points for units that could remein type 89As into 1944, using up all the leftover Type 89As and then 97s in the pool from other units that upgraded.

I'm not sold on the mountain guns though as anti-tank devices. You will have to be careful where you deploy them. They will be outranged by everything but Japanese mortars and 75mm and not very effective unless he stacks his tanks with the few light divisions that Japan has in China exclusively.

I always upgrade to Type 1 in China...especially for the siege of Chungking as they are the primary shock weapon in knocking down forts.

I not sold on the mtn guns either, but it is the best I have early.[:)] I have pretty clear ideas of the little festungs they are going to go into, terrain, distance, other units. I have had great success in using IJN artillery to counter Allied tanks.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If anything, there is an American anti-tank unit with 37mm guns that comes in later. That unit goes to SWPAC but it should be air transportable. That could be a nasty surprise!

I haven't checked to see what AT devices are air mobile...you are ahead of me.[:)] Nothing at start I think.

[Q-Ball]

Really good discussion here on some tips and tricks! Excellent so far

Of course, we are 4 pages into this AAR so far, and not a shot fired yet.....[:D]

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I always upgrade to Type 1 in China...especially for the siege of Chungking as they are the primary shock weapon in knocking down forts.

What do you do with all those leftover 89As and 97s? Surely not allow them to rust in the pool?

I not sold on the mtn guns either, but it is the best I have early.[:)] I have pretty clear ideas of the little festungs they are going to go into, terrain, distance, other units. I have had great success in using IJN artillery to counter Allied tanks.

Can't you find some howitzers? Get a couple of nice units of 155s in there, and you might do some real damage at a festung. Combined with some AA, that would be a real headache, I think, for Japanese players who attempt to attrit any stronghold.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I always upgrade to Type 1 in China...especially for the siege of Chungking as they are the primary shock weapon in knocking down forts.

What do you do with all those leftover 89As and 97s? Surely not allow them to rust in the pool?

I not sold on the mtn guns either, but it is the best I have early.[:)] I have pretty clear ideas of the little festungs they are going to go into, terrain, distance, other units. I have had great success in using IJN artillery to counter Allied tanks.

Can't you find some howitzers? Get a couple of nice units of 155s in there, and you might do some real damage at a festung. Combined with some AA, that would be a real headache, I think, for Japanese players who attempt to attrit any stronghold.

They eventually get recycled.

IJA will always have better artillery in China, they move the Manchuko monsters. But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

[Lowpe]

China starts with about 125k supply in bases with Chungking base suffering spoilage. Important to fix that day 1, and make sure the supplies go to stockpile bases with as little wastage as possible from transit. This means setting most bases to the absolute minimum required and turning on stockpiles in a lot of bases. It may mean evacuating some bases to adjacent hexes for land units to reduce the supply draw of bases.

China probably makes about 4K supplies a day (I have taken out Hong Kong) with everything running. Chungking, Chengtu, Kunming, Lanchow, Wenchow, Wuchow, and Kweiyang generate about 200 or more supplies a day roughly (if working).

So you can direct the supplies a fair bit. But wastage to troops and bases will occur, but minimized I hope.

A fully kitted out Chinese Corp could easily eat 100 points daily of supply not engaged in combat. One support squad reinforcement costs a 12 points of supply to generate, a Chinese Rifle squad 14.

How many times can I type Kweiyang wrong?[:)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

Looks like I can cobble together a pretty strong Chinese Expeditionary Force. The reinforcement cue of likely units. It would be nice to get some heavier AA...and at least the starting AA unit in Burma I hope will find its way there.

Festung Lashio is a pretty key point to my Burma Defense.[:)]

[RangerJoe]

How many times can I type Kweiyang wrong?

You never type it wrong. You are just doing a Greyjoy!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But there isn't any artillery like that at game start, not sure what the reinforcement que looks like yet with plus 60 days it could be real hit or miss and there is a super narrow time frame of getting the troops there especially heavy devices.

The Aussies can put together some nice units of 105s pretty early in the game. I have hit these before at Moresby and elsewhere, causing me no end of trouble.

Set up a nice defense in the northern jungle of Burma with the 1st Burma, the Brit 18th, and the Aussie units to keep the trail to Lashio open as long as possible to funnel some select units into China. You should be able to retreat out of there without being cut off. The 1st Burma can play rear-guard once you decide to retreat. I'm not sure why more AFBs don't do this, but I am not very familiar with all the problems of playing the allies since I have never done it.

Looks like I can cobble together a pretty strong Chinese Expeditionary Force. The reinforcement cue of likely units. It would be nice to get some heavier AA...and at least the starting AA unit in Burma I hope will find its way there.

Never mind Kweiyang, you are pulling a real Greyjoy re-invention of the word queue! [:D]