Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits

[RangerJoe]

One of the main reason I decided to do this AAR was to learn what to expect during the game in areas that were confusing to me after reading the manual and scanning the forum. One of those areas was the "repair process" for damaged ships. I have already learned a lot from what has transpired so far in this AAR. I hope to learn a lot more in the next few days of data generated by the repair of O23 as it sits stood down in pier side mode.
Looking at the manual and the "Ship Repair Guide 101", I have separated what I think is key into 2 sections:
1. How many IRP (Integrity Repair Points) will be generated in Perth each turn?
2. How many of those IRP will be applied to the repair of O23?
Question 1: IRP will be generated by:
Port of Perth: Since Perth is a P6 it will generate 63.0 IRP according to SRP101.
Crew Experience: O23 has a crew experience of 59. 59/8=7.4 IRP
The Naval Support in Perth is 125. At pier side 125/2=62.5. There is 40 (non-major) damage on O23. 40/5=8. Combining these terms: 62.5-8=54.5.
These factors add up to 7.4+54.5+63=124.9.
The remaining source of IRP are repair ships. In section 10 of SRP101 there are tables of repair ships. Included are: AD, AG, AGP, AR, ARD, AS. In Perth there are the following from this group: AR, AS, AD, AGPx2. The 101 guide has two statements that are key.
The first (in Table E: IRP generated by repair ships) says that "undamaged. disbanded, unused tender generates 83 IRP." This statement is similar to but not the same as the statement in the manual. The Manual in Section 14.2.3.2.1.1 says: "Repair Ships may contribute up to a maximum of 83 repair points per turn". I read this to mean that on any given turn any repair ship may or may not contribute repair points and if it does the number of repair points it contributes could be anywhere between 1-83. Sounds like there must be some die rolls happening here!
Since there are 5 ships that fit the definition of "tender/repair ship" in the 101 guide the number of IRP they could contribute in any turn would be between 0-415.
Adding this to the 124.9 results in a range of 124.9-539.9. Quite a range.
Question 2: How many of the IRP generated will be applied to O23? Not an easy question. The following statement in the 101 guide as the rule. Section 9 says: "When there are ships in repair ship mode, IRP generated by repair ships are not expended on ships in any other repair mode. However, if there are no ships in repair ship mode the IRP generated by repair ships will be directed automatically by the repair manager to ships in pier side mode only."
In our situation there is only one ship that is being repaired outside of the SY and it is in pier side mode. Will O23 benefit from the IRP generated by all 5 of the "repair ships/tenders" or will it only benefit from the IRP generated by ships that are listed as being relevant to submarines? Only the AS and the AR are listed as relevant to subs.

The O23 will only benefit from the AR and the AS, the other tenders do not know anything about submarine repairs and refuse to help. The AG and maybe the AGP will help the Arend, but you have to look up the AGP. I do believe, however, that the AGP only helps the motorboats used for water skiing and not other small craft.

[WEXF]

The O23 will only benefit from the AR and the AS.

This would be the most probable situation. It will be really interesting to see what actually happens and how the damage to O23 is handled day to day.

[WEXF]

LCDR Gorek received an update on the status of the TF ordered to pick up the float plane assigned to him. It is just 80 miles away from port and will start unloading it current cargo as soon as it docks. No enemy contact has been reported and both ships are damage free. The pilots of No. 700 Squadron have been training on "naval search" with most of the work being done by PO Caruthers, V.
Data on the events in the Perth SY are under review and Gorek expects a report shortly.

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[Ambassador]

AG and AGP won’t help Arend. Arend is an AVP, and as such is neither a Small Escort* nor a Small Craft, while AG help repairs on both categories and AGP help only Small Craft.

* it’s not a matter of size, really. Small Escort (you can find the list of types and other informations in section 14.2.3.2 of the manual) include DE, DMS, AVD, which are usually bigger than AVP. Hey, even some of the PC classes (like Treasury-class cutters) are bigger, yet they’re Small Craft AND Small Escort.

[WEXF]

Australian BGen Jackson, commander of III Corps and the officer charged with the defense of Western Australia called a meeting to convey orders just received from Gen. MacArthur. MacArthur was keenly aware of the critical importance of keeping the supply routes from Cape Town and elsewhere to Australia decided to confirm to Jackson that American units currently under his command would remain with him for the foreseeable future. This included air, land and sea assets. Invited to the meeting were: CMDR Bren and the 4 other DM commanders, LCDR from the Cavite BF and several other officers from air squadrons that were based at Perth and other locations.
Two additional officers also attended. They were the commanders of S-38 and S-39, 2 USN S Boats that had just arrived in Perth and needed some repairs. Both subs would be fully repaired in short order and were very important to Gen. Jackson's plans as they had been recently upgraded to have SDAS and SJSS Radar. How the subs would be positioned was not the subject of the meeting. That would happen after the repair plan had been finalized. The key objective of the meeting was to inform the USN officers that they would remain under the command of III Corps for some time.
Both S-38 and S-39 had been in the Philippines when the Japanese attacked. Both had run into large enemy TF including battleships and cruisers. Each had sunk an enemy cargo ship and eventually made it to northern Australia.

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Both of the S Boats were currently at Readiness. S-38 has RP 40(85%)=47.1 RP needed to remove the next damage point. S-39 had RP 31(65%)=47.6 RP needed. Pretty close. Since both subs had major damage some attention from a repair ship currently in port would likely be allocated to the repairs.
The figures for O23 and Arend show improvements as expected but analysis is continuing.

[WEXF]

Results for Arend this turn were as expected. Major flotation damage was reduced from 50>49. Previously, Arend had RP 28(68%) meaning that 41.2RP were needed to get the next point of damage reduced. 41.2-28=13.2RP were still needed.
This turn Arend is at RP 7(17%) which is also 41.2 needed to reduce the next point of damage.
The above numbers show that Arend received the 13.2 to reduce flotation damage >49 and got 7 additional RP accrued for future repairs. All together Arend received 20.2RP this turn from the Perth SY (at high priority) compared to the 14RP she was getting from the SY (at normal) when O23 was also in the yard and at "High". She needs 34.2RP to get from 49>48 flotation damage.
While the above is very consistent there is a problem with the numbers! The screen says that if Arend is left in the SY at high for 30 more days it will be repaired fully. The numbers don't add up. If Arend receives the same 20.2 RP each turn for the next 30 days the total received would be 606RP. If Arend needs 41.2RP to reduce a point of damage it would need around 2000RP to repair fully. Even if Arend got the full 30RP the level 3 Perth SY produces every turn it would only get half of what is needed.
What this suggests is that the repair process changes as damage is eliminated. Perhaps the last group of damage points only need 20RP or less? No way to know. It will be interesting to watch what happens to the 41.2 figure.

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[WEXF]

Looking at O23 the same way is a bit more complex. O23 needed a total 55.6 RP to reduce the next point of system damage now that she was in Pier Side (critical). She already had 45RP accrued and needed only 10.6 to go from 39>38 system. This turn she got the 10.6 + 55.6 (38>37 system) + 55.6 (37>36) + 55.6 (36>35) + 55.6 (35>34) + 20 RP toward reducing from 34>33. That is a total of 253 RP received this turn from the port, the NS, the crew and relevant repair ships as there were no other ships in the port needing repairs. Notice that the RP 20(36%) = 55.6 is unchanged. Previous calculations had a maximum of 124.9 RP coming from the crew, port and NS with the 2 relevant repair ships (AS and AR) in Perth adding another maximum of 166 RP. That is a total of 124.9 + 166= 290.9. These numbers fit pretty well.

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If you work out the above numbers based on the 6 days remaining for O23 to repair the last 34 system damage and the 1 non major engine damage based on being at PS Critical delivering 290.9RP and using the 55.6RP needed and the 20 accrued points the totals come out fairly close to each other being off by only about 10%. I got 1926 needed and 1745 generated. If you use the 253 RP generated this turn you only get 1518 more than 20% off.
It won't be possible to follow the numbers on O23 as close as on Arend as the decision by command was to leave Arend in the SY at high, O23 at PS critical but for the next few days both S-38 and S-39 will utilize the repair ships in port. We'll see what happens!

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[WEXF]

LCDR Gorek received an fresh update on the status of the TF ordered to pick up the float plane assigned to him. It has just arrived at port (redacted for security) and has started unloading it current cargo. It will dock immediately and continue to unload as the supply is needed in the port. No enemy contact was reported on the trip and both ships are damage free. The question of whether a command change on the xAK is being reviewed. The pilots of No. 700 Squadron have been training on "naval search" with most of the work being done by PO Caruthers, V.
Experience of both officers improved this last day of training although there is only a single plane. Interesting! Notice also the PO Caruthers "defensive skill" improved by 3 points this turn 38>41.
Data on the repair events in the Perth SY and elsewhere in port are under review and Gorek expects a report shortly.

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[WEXF]

Naval Command took a close look at the voyage of TF 236.
It was interesting that the crew experience on both DD Nizam (58/58) and xAK Clan Macinness (20/15) did not improve over the 1000 mile voyage that started on 23Apr with supply loading and the arrival at their current location on 27Apr with sufficient operations capability to start unloading.
Both ships have sufficient fuel to make the almost 3500 mile next leg of the trip ferrying the float plane needed by Arend. That trip will start after the remaining 3700 tons of supplies are unloaded and the TF has been re-designated as an air transport TF to load the aircraft. The unloading process will take about a week. No refueling of the TF will happen at their current location as fuel supplies at that base need to be conserved.
A decision has been made to NOT replace CPT Tomlin on xAK Clan Macinness after consideration of this successful mission and the counsel of some of the staff viewing this AAR. Although the next leg of the mission is much longer the TF will still be under the command of CDR McEwen on the Nizam.

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[WEXF]

Looking at the progress in repairing the ships at Perth shows that Arend still has 0-49-0 and O23 has gone from 34-16-6 > 29-16-6 an improvement of 5 points of system damage.
The 2 subs using the repair ships now show just 1 more day needed to be ready.
S-38 now shows only 2 system damage having repaired the point of engine damage. Not shown in this screen is the detail on S-38. She currently has RP 41(87%)=47.1. She needs just 6 more RP to reduce the next point of system damage. Her previous numbers were: 40(85%)=47.1. S-38 therefore received the 7 RP needed to reduce the point of damage and an additional 41 RP for a total of only 48RP from the repair ship.
S-39 still shows 1-0-2 damage, unchanged from the previous day and currently has RP 46(97%)=47.4. She only needs 1 more RP to repair some damage. Previously she had 31(65)=47.7. Since none of her damage points were reduced it looks like S-39 only received a total of 15 RP this turn from the repair ships.
In total the repair ships only delivered 48+15=63 repair points, quite a lot lower than the potential 83+83=166 suggested by (Guide 101). Lousy die rolls? It would not be surprising if the two subs are not ready to rejoin the fleet in 1 day.
Notice on the right side of the screen shot the references to "Ships damaged" and "Ships due upgrade". The ships due upgrades are S-38 and S-39 but the upgrades are not available until October 42. All 4 ships have some damage but only Arend, O43 and S-39 have some "major damage". Perhaps the reference to "Ships Damaged" is based only on those that have "Major Damage"?

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A detailed look at the progress of Arend and O23 will be available shortly.

[WEXF]

The commander of Arend had lots of time to sit and watch what was happening to his ship and to others that were already in Perth getting repaired or just arriving with varying amounts of damage. The results on Arend were as predicted. No change in the level of major flotation damage but a decent amount of repair points were added this turn. Arend had started with 7RP and now had 34 on the way to the 41 needed to reduce the flotation damage from 49>48. The numbers were still consistent: 34(82%)=41.5. 27RP had been received from the SY that could max out at 30. Not bad! There was however, some lack of clarity on how all of the damage could possibly be removed in only 29 more days given the numbers so far?
Goerk noticed that there were a group of Motor Launches doing some light repairs while at "readiness". These British motor boats were lightly armed and low endurance but were useful in performing short range ASW patrols. What was really interesting was that these launches had either been at Singapore when the Japanese attacked or were actually sill being built! They had escaped Singapore by making short trips north along the coast of Sumatra to Sabang and then to Padang and other small ports eventually escorting some light tankers evacuating fuel and oil to Australia.

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Goerk did some research and found out that the small motor launches could be converted to a variety of other configurations that altered the main gun, ASW equipment or AA capability. He had a chance to talk with the commander of the ML311 and he had said that it was likely that none of the conversions would be done but that his ship and the others would be upgraded in June to a configuration that tripled its ASW capability and gave it a level of AA that was better than any of the conversions. Was this plan smart?

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[WEXF]

Repairs on O23 moved along better than expected. This turn damage went from 34-16-6 to 29-16-6 with all of the repairs going to systems. The numbers are:
Last turn: 20(36%)=55.6
This turn: 8(14%)=57.1
To get to 29 system damage O23 received:
35.6 to go from 34>33
55.6 to go from 33>32
55.6 to go from 32>31
55.6 to go from 31>30
55.6 to go from 30>29
8 RP toward going from 29>28.
All together O23 received 266 repair points this turn compared to the 253 she received the previous day.
Pretty close except this turn the 2 repair ships were helping repair the 2 American subs.
Must be the die rolls!

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[RangerJoe]

The commander of Arend had lots of time to sit and watch what was happening to his ship and to others that were already in Perth getting repaired or just arriving with varying amounts of damage. The results on Arend were as predicted. No change in the level of major flotation damage but a decent amount of repair points were added this turn. Arend had started with 7RP and now had 34 on the way to the 41 needed to reduce the flotation damage from 49>48. The numbers were still consistent: 34(82%)=41.5. 27RP had been received from the SY that could max out at 30. Not bad! There was however, some lack of clarity on how all of the damage could possibly be removed in only 29 more days given the numbers so far?
Goerk noticed that there were a group of Motor Launches doing some light repairs while at "readiness". These British motor boats were lightly armed and low endurance but were useful in performing short range ASW patrols. What was really interesting was that these launches had either been at Singapore when the Japanese attacked or were actually sill being built! They had escaped Singapore by making short trips north along the coast of Sumatra to Sabang and then to Padang and other small ports eventually escorting some light tankers evacuating fuel and oil to Australia.
A428b.jpg
Goerk did some research and found out that the small motor launches could be converted to a variety of other configurations that altered the main gun, ASW equipment or AA capability. He had a chance to talk with the commander of the ML311 and he had said that it was likely that none of the conversions would be done but that his ship and the others would be upgraded in June to a configuration that tripled its ASW capability and gave it a level of AA that was better than any of the conversions. Was this plan smart? ML428b.jpg

The base commander should inform that motor launch commander that even after doing the conversion he still can have that upgrade to his vessel . . .

[WEXF]

The base commander should inform that motor launch commander that even after doing the conversion he still can have that upgrade to his vessel . . .
[/quote]

In looking at the 5 possible conversions it didn't appear to me that any of them were worth doing at this point. Three increase the ASW from 2>4 but at a large loss in AA. Is there one of the conversions that you think is really worth doing at the cost of the 12 days lost and then losing more time with the upgrade?

[RangerJoe]

The base commander should inform that motor launch commander that even after doing the conversion he still can have that upgrade to his vessel . . .

In looking at the 5 possible conversions it didn't appear to me that any of them were worth doing at this point. Three increase the ASW from 2>4 but at a large loss in AA. Is there one of the conversions that you think is really worth doing at the cost of the 12 days lost and then losing more time with the upgrade?

Pick the best for your needs, but those vessels are best for ASW away from enemy air power.

If nothing else, save the game, put one on the conversion, then see if you can still do the upgrade. Mine were allowed. If yours are not allowed, then reload the save and play from there.

[WEXF]

"Pick the best for your needs, but those vessels are best for ASW away from enemy air power."

I agree on the best use of these small ships but I have seen many times where Japanese aircraft target them when doing naval attacks. That is why I consider the AA numbers important along with the ASW. ASW is top priority but AA in important as well. Without the conversions the AA is at 29 and it goes to 37 with the upgrade along with an ASW of 6. The best conversions give an ASW of 4 with 18AA or an ASW of 2 with 36AA.

[Ambassador]

Their meager AA won’t help them against Betties/Nells/Kates.

Basically, you are right that AA is as important (if not more in fact) than ASW, but in reality it’s not as clear cut. Even if IJN air reach is very long, you can do the math, and you know where they can and can’t fly from their bases. The reason Joe said « away from enemy air power » is so that you can use those small crafts for ASW purpose, without needing a decent AA (or any AA at all in fact). AA is irrelevant when your ships are too far away from the enemy planes to be attacked.

[WEXF]

Their meager AA won’t help them against Betties/Nells/Kates.

Basically, you are right that AA is as important (if not more in fact) than ASW, but in reality it’s not as clear cut. Even if IJN air reach is very long, you can do the math, and you know where they can and can’t fly from their bases. The reason Joe said « away from enemy air power » is so that you can use those small crafts for ASW purpose, without needing a decent AA (or any AA at all in fact). AA is irrelevant when your ships are too far away from the enemy planes to be attacked.

I do understand what Joe and you are saying and I basically agree. That being said, I see waiting the few weeks to do the upgrade instead of converting to any of the options as the better decision. When all is done the small ships will have the better ASW together with improved AA.
I also agree that the threat to western Australia with regard to Japanese aircraft is not from Betties or Nells but from carrier planes or the occasional float plane that may be based on a sub or large surface ship. The AA on these small ships aren't likely to do much against a large attack by Vals or Kates but if the planes come in low enough, as torpedo planes have to when making a torpedo run, there is a decent chance that one could be damaged or destroyed.
No perfect answer, its a great part of this game!

[RangerJoe]

In my current game, a US PT Boat that was not upgraded shot down a Betty!

[WEXF]

As I was looking at the small motor launches I noticed that I could change the commanders to some others at a zero PP cost and improve their naval and aggression ratings. I did some checking and realized that the same group of potential new commanders were listed for the British KV, CM, AM and AMC ships. I felt those ships might need the better commanders more than the MLs. I decided not to change any of the ML commanders.
I also was wondering if there is a place on the forum that lists the groups of ships that have the same "new commander pools" or if I have to just check them out as I go?