ORIGINAL: Charles_22
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
CHARLES This is really lame. First, in the examples used, it was clearly stated that the beginning morale of the heavy bombers was excellent...., it was only later after the continued idiotic combat results that the morale fell. Secondly, no matter how unhappy a crewman might be about going up, shooting at people who are trying to kill you is an act of self-preservation, not morale. The porcupine's quills are still sharp and dangerous even if the animal in question is a bit depressed.
Yes, correct. Morale shouldn´t be the point in defending your life. I think it´s enough to have a check if the bombers fly when morale is low (but what do they do? desert?). When you look at my ac loss list you can see that the B17 is the leader in the A2A losses. I started in 5/42 and I´m now in 9/42, the bomber raids started in 7/42 and now I have shot down 200 !! B17 in A2A, mostly with RUFES. Now folks, after 4 pages of discussion - aren´t there people who can see that there´s something going wrong? Hey, where´s Ron? Is ASW the only discussion he wants to participate? [;)]
Now in 9/42 my Tonies are doing the big part of the job and getting of course better results, because they are armored and take less losses, but I could also "win" this air battle over Gili Gili if I would have more than 2 daitais with each 9 Rufes. I´ll place another 72 Tonies at Gili Gili to get an air balance which is so high the AI stops attacking that airfield. Otherwise it will lose and lose and lose and lose,.... B17.
And as I´ve already said: This result is not because too low exp., altitude or 500 fighters on my side. NO, everything is just normal. But is the result?
Do you consider defending with Rufe's normal? The Rufe isn't a whole lot worse than a Zero is it? Before you answer that, I don't think their somewhat lessened amount of maneuverability will hurt them when their targets are B17's. It's not in the floatplane category, but the fighter-floatplane category if I recall. Frankly I'm somewhat amused to use Alf's as a small addition to some of my bombing runs in China, but they could do it. 200 losses in 60 days is it? So the mighty Rufe's and compatriots have inflicted 3.03 losses a day? I'd like to have empathy for you, only I've run "extremely" fresh Nells at 15,000ft with no air opposition on Clark before, and they got so damaged that their morale shot down to like 20 (on the "surprise" first turn no less). So that's like 2 weeks out of the war from mere damage with maybe 1 or 2 losses in planes/men. What I'm trying to tell you is that it isn't the B17 which is somehow structurally weak, or that the Rufe is some uber-plane, but only that if you think that is fairly wild I'm not sure you've seen much of the aerial results.
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No, I don´t consider defending with Rufes normal. The case was that I stationed them there before I started to build up the airfield. And I didn´t withdraw them as the first B17 raids came in, so they fought long time alone against the B17. And with that uber results. I don´t know the mvr of the Rufe and can´t look it up right now, but what do you think of speed? I think they should have problems even to close in when being on CAP. Perhaps I don´t understand you but what do you mean with "I'm not sure you've seen much of the aerial results"? I´m looking at all combat animations and I think I can really say what results I get. And no FOW with the ac loss list!
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Also note that for all of those screenshots you did not post one of Rufe's taking on B17's by themselves as you seem to think they can do. I see some pretty high losses by Rufe's, but to what? Your two best Rufe pilots, if they're so disproportional, are averaging a kill every other mission, with the worser ones listed with a lower ratio still. No exactly a big deal. You also don't have 200 B17 losses according to your screenshots, but 187, of which only 173 are to aerial opposition.
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I just can repeat my self. At the beginning of the attack ONLY Rufes were engaging the heavies. And if you look at my screenshots you can see that 173 were shot down A2A - most of them by RUFES, on their own! Now I´m in 9/42 and I have destroyed FAR MOR than 200 B17 A2A. If you consider that normal, okay, not my problem, I think it´s just weird. And again: I´m playing the Japanese! And I think my fighters (not just the Rufe) is too good in shooting down heavies or the heavies can´t take what they should be able to take.
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I just took the time to go over your AAR's located on page one. I counted all the B17's destroyed only (naturally the Rufe's could got some B24's too). NONE of those destructions, much less any damage was done by Rufe's because you didn't have any of those 2 months AAR's that you picked out, with Rufe's in them. I counted 39 B17's destroyed. Subtract that from the 173 B17's lost in the air and the MOST the uber-Rufe's shot down was 134. I'm betting they didn't shoot down half of that.
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My Rufes never engaged an other plane that the B17, so all kills are accounted for B17. Just think about what you´re saying! Okay let´s say they shot down half of the 134 like you mentioned: 67!!!!! Is that what you think would be possible by 18 Rufes? 18 Rufes in I don´t know, a few weeks, shot down 67 B17! Hey those Daitais would be the heroes of the war! But what do you think could do better planes? George, Jack, SHINDEN?
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We could talk about B24 losses too, but as your screenshot was sorted by A2A losses the B24 is so low that it don't show up (obviously below 19).
*Sidenote: My counting of the B17 losses on page one may not be correct due to the fact that I might have accidentally counted Tom Hunter's trial.
It is true that there may be as high as three of the B17's destroyed that were due to flak, but considering how the total B17's lost to flak have totaled 3 it's more a bother than anything, and whether they came from the rufe stronghold is another question.
