B-17s and Warships

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Sorry to say that, but all the sinking reports and the bismarck sea operation were carried out by low flying planes. The initial rant was about B-17 bomb hits from 15000 ft. or something and so far I've seen no proof that in the whole war there was just one of those hits on a moving ship.

Yes, but part of the rant (either initial or modified during the discussion) was that Allied heavies should be abstracted to only have the (low) chances of hitting moving ships that they had when used at high altitude.

I want the hit chances to be realisitic for teh tactic, and the player to choose the tactic. If you want to go in low for better chances of hitting then you risk more flak, etc. If you want to avoid those risks then you go in high, etc.

[irishman]

As a Japanese player I try to make my criticisms balanced. In my experience the B-17 is by far the most effective Allied LB Naval bomber. The criticism is that it should not be as effective, especially at 15000ft but I will also argue that the Blenheims, Hudsons and other smaller but more agile LBs rarely hit anything (in my experiences). It seems that bombload is the main factor. I don't have the historical evidence but surely the other (non B-17) Allied LBs in the early stages of the war were a bit more effective than in the game?

[moses]

Agree with irishman.

Historically it was always very dangerous to operate within range of LBA. I don't think transports were ever sent into range of LBA without at least some attempt at providing fighter cover. In the game this is quite possible and I've seen large transport forces just brave the bombers, take a few hits and land whole divisions with no fighter cover.

If the heavy bombers are a bit overpowered it only compensates for all the other bombers being underpowered in their effect. IRL an unescorted transport fleet would be savaged by SBD's and fighter-bombers flying 5 or 6 missions a day. Submarines and small surface craft would be sent in their path and could and likely would sink multiple transports each.

The tranports would have no chance and would almost certainly have aborted and headed for home. But in the game my DB's and FB's get a couple hits. My subs might get one shot if lucky. Its a miricle if you get a non-base surface intercept.

If people really want to change the heavy bombers at this point fine. But then lets be sure and rebalance the whole rest of the system which already is quite easy on the attacker.

[witpqs]

irishman,

I agree with you also. I'm not sure if the combat model could support making things more accurate without significant re-write, which it seems is not in the cards.

By the way, I do see the LB's you mention get pretty good hits once the pilots get experience (like the Dutch during the attacks on DEI). They are better at hitting transport types than warships, probably due to the difference in maneuverability of the targets.