AI for MWiF - Japan

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk
One caveat to Patrice's statements, if you are using Classic ships and extended Japanese CV range, the 4 and 3 point CV's will be quite useful in S. China as ground strikers.

A remark here : MWiF uses SiF ships, and never uses Classic ships.

[sajbalk]

Thank you Patrice; I did not know that.

Thus, allow me to amend my remarks to state that if playing without the separate carrier planes, the longer range CV's will be of use off the S. China coast.

[brian brian]

plus, you can set them up at sea with no need of a naval mission to have them contribute air power to the campaign north of Canton. thanks Andrew.

[peskpesk]

As I promised Steve to go through all the forums post of all AI for MWiF – XXX, here is the result for Japan. A few good suggestions from forum members. I have now compiled it to define 6 possible starting convoy routes for Japan, from which the AIO will chose from.

Since the Japan needs to be able to; minimise the effect of the USSR surprise attack against the convoy lines and port attack, sometimes have the option to intervene in Persia etc, the reserve convoy placements also interesting.

As always if you have any comments about these convoy routes, we would love to hear them. If nothing else, you could help us decide on their probabilities.


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Japan Convoys plans/routes Global war

Route 1: NEI and China resources (Standard).
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 6 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Very low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 4 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 5 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 30%


Route 2: Sea of Japan
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 5 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. Sea supply in Sea of Japan, ship home the Manchuria resource and might be useful if planning a attack against the USSR.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Low risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 3 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Route 3: Truk, NEI and China resources
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 5 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 3 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Route 4: Bismark Sea and The Marianas.
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 4 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Medium risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%

Route 5: Sea of Japan, Bismark Sea and The Marianas.
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 3 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. Sea supply in Sea of Japan, ship home the Manchuria resource and might be useful if planning a attack against the USSR.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Low risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• High risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30 %
C) Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10%
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 1 CP 10%

Route 6: Arabian Sea
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 4 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. Sea supply all the way to Arabian Sea, with a dedicated supply TRS Japan can ex intervene in Persia during a USSR attack or make a naval base in Italian controlled Italian Somaliland once Italy is active Major power, strike in the middle east etc.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Medium risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %



Optional rules that might affect Convoy Deployment %
• USSR setup against Persia and/or Manchuria/Korea.
• AIO Strategy, Italian entry.
• Limited Overseas Supply
• In the presence of the enemy
• Rough Seas
• Convoys In Flame
• Oil tankers
• Cruisers in flames
• Oil Rules
• Saving Oil Resources and Build Points
• AIO Strategy

[peskpesk]

Route 1: NEI and China resources (Standard)

[peskpesk]

Route 2: Sea of Japan

[peskpesk]

Route 3: Truk, NEI and China resources

[peskpesk]

Route 4: Bismark Sea and The Marianas

[peskpesk]

Route 5: Sea of Japan, Bismark Sea and The Marianas

[peskpesk]

Route 6: Arabian Sea

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %

Routes 3-5 are the only ones that provide a supply route for Truk, that is a strategic (and game) objective. And also to Kwajalein that is a game objective.

I would call Route 1, the rookie route. This was my convoy route when I was a rookie playing WiF. But I soon discovered that having convoys in the Sea of Japan could help in putting Asia in supply, and though that could lessen the consequences of an US raid into the China Sea. Moreover, the route through the Sea of Japan is 1 sea area farther from the US Navy bases, so the US Navy have a harder time raiding here.

Route 2 is better in that it allows 2 supply routes to Asia. But it could be improved by having more CP in the Sea of Japan, and less in the China Sea. Basicaly, while Manchuria & Korea are Japanese controlled, all the extra RP from Manchuria (1) and China (1 initialy, but soon they are 3) could go through the Sea of Japan instead of the China Sea. The only resources that can't have another route are the Formose resource, and the oil from the NEI. The Hainan resource only leaves Hainan to reach Canton through the South China Sea, it don't go to Japan.

But Route 2 does not provide supply to Truk. That's 80% of having no supply to Truk until it is decided otherwise. I prefer having supply initialy, so that I don't have to worry later to put it in supply.

Route 3 is an improvement of Route 1 in that it is providing supply to Truk. But it is not diversified enough in regards to supply to Asia.

Route 4 is an improvement of route 3, with 2 supply routes to Truk, which is a bare minimum later when Truk is threatened. It also puts Rabaul in supply which is good. But this is not as important as for Truk, as Rabaul is not threatened from an US surprise invasion.

Route 5 is definitely the best IMO, as it puts Truk in supply through 2 sea areas as Route 4, and it also diversifies the routes to Asia by using the Sea of Japan Sea Area. It could be improved by having 3 CP there, and 3 in the China Sea. But I personally would leave 5 in the China Sea, and put 3-4 in the Sea of Japan, so that I'm ready to transport the RP I will gain in China (I expect to gain 3 before the end of 1940).

Route 6 is un-necessary, unless you see the Russian ready to strike Persia, and even if so, you can have 2-3 CP in Canton ready to sail in the Bay of Bengal plus the Arabian Sea to take advantage of the Persian oil and putting any peacekeepers there in supply.

My percentages would be :
Route 1 10% or less
Route 2 15% or less
Route 3 15 % (less than route 4)
Route 4 20 % (less than route 5)
Route 5 35 %
Route 6 5 %

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %

Routes 3-5 are the only ones that provide a supply route for Truk, that is a strategic (and game) objective. And also to Kwajalein that is a game objective.

I would call Route 1, the rookie route. This was my convoy route when I was a rookie playing WiF. But I soon discovered that having convoys in the Sea of Japan could help in putting Asia in supply, and though that could lessen the consequences of an US raid into the China Sea. Moreover, the route through the Sea of Japan is 1 sea area farther from the US Navy bases, so the US Navy have a harder time raiding here.

Route 2 is better in that it allows 2 supply routes to Asia. But it could be improved by having more CP in the Sea of Japan, and less in the China Sea. Basicaly, while Manchuria & Korea are Japanese controlled, all the extra RP from Manchuria (1) and China (1 initialy, but soon they are 3) could go through the Sea of Japan instead of the China Sea. The only resources that can't have another route are the Formose resource, and the oil from the NEI. The Hainan resource only leaves Hainan to reach Canton through the South China Sea, it don't go to Japan.

But Route 2 does not provide supply to Truk. That's 80% of having no supply to Truk until it is decided otherwise. I prefer having supply initialy, so that I don't have to worry later to put it in supply.

Route 3 is an improvement of Route 1 in that it is providing supply to Truk. But it is not diversified enough in regards to supply to Asia.

Route 4 is an improvement of route 3, with 2 supply routes to Truk, which is a bare minimum later when Truk is threatened. It also puts Rabaul in supply which is good. But this is not as important as for Truk, as Rabaul is not threatened from an US surprise invasion.

Route 5 is definitely the best IMO, as it puts Truk in supply through 2 sea areas as Route 4, and it also diversifies the routes to Asia by using the Sea of Japan Sea Area. It could be improved by having 3 CP there, and 3 in the China Sea. But I personally would leave 5 in the China Sea, and put 3-4 in the Sea of Japan, so that I'm ready to transport the RP I will gain in China (I expect to gain 3 before the end of 1940).

Route 6 is un-necessary, unless you see the Russian ready to strike Persia, and even if so, you can have 2-3 CP in Canton ready to sail in the Bay of Bengal plus the Arabian Sea to take advantage of the Persian oil and putting any peacekeepers there in supply.

My percentages would be :
Route 1 10% or less
Route 2 15% or less
Route 3 15 % (less than route 4)
Route 4 20 % (less than route 5)
Route 5 35 %
Route 6 5 %

The supply issue depends on optional rule choice.

[Extraneous]

Why Route 6 is useless.

World in Flames: Global war (see 24.4.7) Impulse 2 the USSR DoW’s Persia.

Asian/Pacific Maps
Zhukov
3 Infantry (change the 2 weakest to Siberians)
2 Cavalry
2 Submarines
1 Gun

Persia
1 Militia
1 Cavalry

1 CP is in the Caspian Sea.
The Red Arrow with the white S is 2 Siberian infantry and 1 Cavalry.
The other Red Arrow is where you can place the Long Range Soviet bomber from the European side (If you get it use it to support your attacks in Persia).

The Persian capital is 4 hexes away and I’m in supply as long as I stay on the coast.

[Extraneous]

The Red Arrow with the white Z is Zukov and 1 Cavalry.
The other Red Arrow is a Soviet Infantry and 1 gun.
The 2 submarines are split in the 2 northern minor ports. 

Vladivostok

The notional unit has 1 combat factor, modified by:
+1 it is a city hex;
+1 the hex is in the home country of the major power that controls the hex;
+1 it is not stacked with a land unit, but is in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army;
+ the shore bombardment modifier for each invading unit;
-1 if surprised (see 15.).

The notional unit has a strength of 3 + the shore bombardment modifier.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Why Route 6 is useless.

I wonder if anyone understood what you posted. I did not myself.

[Mike Parker]

Well he's saying that a Soviet attack on Persia is a strong strategy that using route 6 for the Japanese can help deal with.  I am not saying he is right, I am just saying what I think he is saying.  I await the analysis.
 

[composer99]

Just because the USSR can set up to attack Persia right off does not automatically mean the Japanese convoy set-up in the Arabian Sea is of no use. After all, the Japanese could easily gobble up Saudi Arabia or Iraq.

Since the Japanese get to see the USSR set-up before they do theirs, they could pounce on the USSR themselves. With the Red Army initially posted around Persia, 3-4 resources would be all too easy for Japan to seize.

[lomyrin]

Japan hitting on Russia because the Russians have set up for Persia is not as easy as it may sound. The single scale map makes the Manchuria area very large and Japan's moves there will take time letting the Russians set up defenses long before all three resources are lost.  Japan can set up to cut the Russian rail connection easily enough but taking the resources themselves is another story.
 
Lars
 
 
 
 

[micheljq]

If USSR DOWs Persia, Japan should align Persia and go take the oil fields on the coastline.

[coregames]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

If USSR DOWs Persia, Japan should align Persia and go take the oil fields on the coastline.

That is our plan in the next game as the Axis. In the six games of WiF i have played, I'm surprised no one had done it so far.