Hi,
seeing those results I feel the question rising in me:
Why do the allies gain VP for bombing factories that are no longer producing anything (due to lack of resources/oil) ??
I know this sounds weird but when the factory ouput has grinded to a halt bombing those factories is useless as a war effort (Mogami hinted something like this).
Well, under that theorem, the Allies should get VP for non-producing industries, etc., no matter what the reason that they are not producing. The strategic loss to the Japanese is still the same whether the plant is bombed out, or lacks the oil/resource/Fruity Pebbles [;)]needed to run it.
Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze" ..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...
Hi, The bomb dropped on Hiroshima on 27 July DESTROYED 10 Manpower out of 36 leaving 4 damaged and 22 undamaged
It also destroyed 50 HI and 15 Engine. It damaged other items.
So yes you can destroy stuff. [X(]
But apparently only via A-Bomb. Firestorms/conventional bombing of Manpower will not destroy industry and only does small amounts of damage to them.
(And yes people, I understand that repairing "damaged" industry is slow and very difficult for the Japanese player late in the war. That's not the point here.)
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.
Hi, The bomb dropped on Hiroshima on 27 July DESTROYED 10 Manpower out of 36 leaving 4 damaged and 22 undamaged
It also destroyed 50 HI and 15 Engine. It damaged other items.
So yes you can destroy stuff. [X(]
But apparently only via A-Bomb. Firestorms/conventional bombing of Manpower will not destroy industry and only does small amounts of damage to them.
(And yes people, I understand that repairing "damaged" industry is slow and very difficult for the Japanese player late in the war. That's not the point here.)
Hmmm...
Several months ago I did conventional attack test/simulation and with good attack targeted Japan's city sufferend 10% loss from just one strike.
IMHO that is significant damage.
Leo "Apollo11"
P.S.
The results of those tests were posted here on the forum.
Hi, The bomb dropped on Hiroshima on 27 July DESTROYED 10 Manpower out of 36 leaving 4 damaged and 22 undamaged
It also destroyed 50 HI and 15 Engine. It damaged other items.
So yes you can destroy stuff. [X(]
But apparently only via A-Bomb. Firestorms/conventional bombing of Manpower will not destroy industry and only does small amounts of damage to them.
(And yes people, I understand that repairing "damaged" industry is slow and very difficult for the Japanese player late in the war. That's not the point here.)
Hmmm...
Several months ago I did conventional attack test/simulation and with good attack targeted Japan's city sufferend 10% loss from just one strike.
IMHO that is significant damage.
Leo "Apollo11"
P.S.
The results of those tests were posted here on the forum.
Since the search function isn't working well enough, I'll have to ask you directly. Did the target lose 10% of ALL industries to the fires? Or did it "just" lose 10% of the directly targeted Manpower with no fire damage to other industries? I thought I remembered someone running a test where he bombed Manpower only for something like a month straight but the fires never damaged any other industries.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.
Hi, MY experiance is that bombing manpower does more damage to other targets then it does to manpower. Tokyo began with 110 and before I got it down to just 100 undamaged I'd damaged HI,Resource,Shipyard repair yards aircraft and engines. what I never saw damaged was arms and vehicles but I targetd them.
If the Allied player can bomb Home Islands Japan has lost. (Of course if Japan can prevent it by putting up effective air defense thats a different animal)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Hi, MY experiance is that bombing manpower does more damage to other targets then it does to manpower. Tokyo began with 110 and before I got it down to just 100 undamaged I'd damaged HI,Resource,Shipyard repair yards aircraft and engines. what I never saw damaged was arms and vehicles but I targetd them.
If the Allied player can bomb Home Islands Japan has lost. (Of course if Japan can prevent it by putting up effective air defense thats a different animal)
I can't tell that from what you posted. I just re-read it and you posted what industry was in Tokyo before targeting Manpower, then switched to targeting specific industries (Vehicle and Armament) without listing their status or what damage had been done by firestorm first.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
8050 fires
35 HI damaged
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/30/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
13130 fires
68 HI now damaged
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/30/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/31/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
32 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
fires 9531
56 resource damaged
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/01/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
Hi, Cearly it is better to target a specific item rather then hope for fires to inflict damage.
Why then should we bomb manpower (fire bomb?) The answer I think will be "Japanese Air Defense"
If Japan has fighters then daylight unescorted attacks will be to costly (historical)
The USAAF switched to night fire bombing rather then attempt daylight percision bombing.
Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
Guam groups did not fly (weather)
no damage to any target
285 fires
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/29/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 166
No Allied losses
Manpower hits 8
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
24 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
32 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 20000 feet
no damage
67 fires
going to lower altitude from 20k to 10k
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/30/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
43 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
43 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
Guam groups grounded (weather)
fires 660
damage (total)
Manpower 4
HI 34
Resource 13
Mitsubishi 4
(looks like no new damage added but some was repaired)
no missions on 1st due to weather
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/02/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
32 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hiroshima/Kure , at 60,41
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
32 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
fires 815
Damage (total)
MP 3
HI 67
Res 12
Mit 3
200 VP scored thus far by bombing
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
ORIGINAL: dtravel
Since the search function isn't working well enough, I'll have to ask you directly. Did the target lose 10% of ALL industries to the fires? Or did it "just" lose 10% of the directly targeted Manpower with no fire damage to other industries? I thought I remembered someone running a test where he bombed Manpower only for something like a month straight but the fires never damaged any other industries.
I tested with FoW ("Fog of War") set to OFF.
I directly targeted "Manpower" (i.e. I attacked ony that) but damage was done to other industries as well (this was something I didn't "catch" immediately)!
I will try to dig up the thread with that data today...
