The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

[Lowpe]

A really good plane, but my experience has been they cannot sweep at all....so my advice is to use them strictly in a defensive role.

I wouldn't use them to escort either -- not that they have the range, but sometimes you get tempted.

If you can sandwich them down low with other fighters, they can really do a number on the Jugs.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A really good plane, but my experience has been they cannot sweep at all....so my advice is to use them strictly in a defensive role.

I wouldn't use them to escort either -- not that they have the range, but sometimes you get tempted.

If you can sandwich them down low with other fighters, they can really do a number on the Jugs.

I've used them sweeping but they're best role is interceptor. The service 2 is the main advantage here, but by late 44 they're getting a bit weak. The J2M5 is much better. My sweepers are mainly the George and Frank right now, and i'm praying the Ki-83 picks up the RnD pace a bit.

The plane I did not get to use last time is the N1K5 and that is progressing nicely. It should be ready late 44. It looks a beast.

I've still been playing with low CAP layered under 10k. So far the results are decent. Against single groups they do fantastically well, against big combined bombing and sweeping with Spits and P-47s, not so much. I'll be mixing it all up as we go, kind of putting the tests to the test in practice! [;)]

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]4-7 January, 1944[/font]

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[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]West Oz: [/font] Albany falls. The tanks will chase down the refugees, then move to eradicate the last of the former Carnarvon garrison before moving back to Sumatra. Good experience gain here for them.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]BURMA: [/font] The Allies sweep Prome several times but do not bomb yet. They seem to be feeling out the defenses. I've got AA here but no CAP until it needs to be here. If troops start moving on the base then I'll consider it. Right now 15 units have moved opposite on the Arakan, but did not make it in time to further wreck the Thais. All Thai units from here will move back to Rangoon and form the garrison there as other units head to the front. I've just sent in four large Brigades, recently arrived, to fill some holes. I'm also beefing up the Burmese coastline and will continue to bring units from OZ back to their defensive positions on Sumatra.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] The Japanese finally prevail at Sining and the industry is all intact. That is good as we were a bit short on resources due to the health of most bigger LI centers here, and this will be a big addition. It's also a x50 VP base and I'll build it to max and get decent forts as well. If these bases in China are maxed out it puts pressure on the Allies to take them late. If they don't it's a lot of VPs to try to double. No strat bombing for the entire war here remember (an HR Torsten wanted. I see this as a plus for the Japanese, but balanced by no SL so the Allies can essentially put as much as they want on any spot on the map).

Forces will now move to Urumchi.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SW PAC: [/font] One lone Corsair group sweeps Rabaul and doesn't do well. About 6-7 Corsairs lost for 4 Japanese planes. Again, it seems he's testing the defenses. I have a few new groups moving down, so they may be tougher in about 4-5 turns, but I also have some interlocking bases at Kaveing, Namatani and Feni Islands to use as additional defensive centers around Rabaul.

I've noticed more shipping around Rekata Bay and Munda. I'll get some strikes ready and do more thorough recon to see if fighters are lurking here. If not, I will be aggressive.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR January 4, 42
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Ground combat at Sining (80,32)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26818 troops, 154 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 683

Defending force 18967 troops, 79 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 295

Japanese adjusted assault: 1061

Allied adjusted defense: 337

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1020 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1072 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 91 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
23rd Tank Regiment
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
65th Division
12th RGC Ind. Brigade
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army

Defending units:
17th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Cavalry Division
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Base Force
6th Chinese Base Force
8th War Area
40th Group Army
8th Chinese Base Force

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR January 5, 42
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Ground combat at Sining (80,32)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26128 troops, 154 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 615

Defending force 17960 troops, 78 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 216

Japanese adjusted assault: 870

Allied adjusted defense: 292

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
589 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1264 casualties reported
Squads: 61 destroyed, 63 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Tank Regiment
12th RGC Ind. Brigade
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
65th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army

Defending units:
17th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Cavalry Division
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
40th Group Army
6th Chinese Base Force
5th Chinese Base Force
8th War Area
8th Chinese Base Force

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR January 6, 42
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Ground combat at Sining (80,32)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25773 troops, 154 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 579

Defending force 16892 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 155

Japanese adjusted assault: 429

Allied adjusted defense: 187

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Sining !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
888 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 59 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units pursuing 1

Allied ground losses:
4488 casualties reported
Squads: 64 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 287 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (16 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 7
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th RGC Ind. Brigade
23rd Tank Regiment
65th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Mongol Garrison Army

Defending units:
35th Chinese Cavalry Division
17th Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Base Force
40th Group Army
6th Chinese Base Force
8th War Area
8th Chinese Base Force

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR January 7, 42
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Morning Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 11
J2M2 Jack x 21
N1K1 Rex x 12
N1K1-J George x 1
N1K2-J George x 15
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 14
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 18

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1 Rex: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed

CAP engaged:
Yokosuka Ku S-1 with N1K1-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
204 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 35000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
902 Ku S-1 with N1K1 Rex (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 32000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
253 Ku S-2 with J2M2 Jack (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 33000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
254 Ku S-1 with J2M2 Jack (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
265 Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 28000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
21st Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 28000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
30th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
78th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 36000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes

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Ground combat at Albany (51,153)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2628 troops, 0 guns, 247 vehicles, Assault Value = 139

Defending force 964 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17

Japanese adjusted assault: 128

Allied adjusted defense: 5

Japanese assault odds: 25 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Albany !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: op mode(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
266 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 28 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 5 (4 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
9th Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
Princess Royal Fortress
5th RAAF Base Force

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[/font]

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]These Corsairs dove first on the Tojos, and that is curious. They are in the middle of the layers at 7k, but I would guess they climbed the fastest and due to the good radar warning, they actually got up there to challenge before the Jacks and Georges at 9k. [/font]

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[obvert]

The A6M8 is moving forward quickly with 150 factories and the engine bonus. It should arrive soon and will be the mainstay of the IJN CVs for about a year. I've got 3 x 30 researching the Sam, or hoping to start soon, but they're being very slow to repair. Knowing I don't want to make so many A6M8 I'll switch the research to other models, some to the Sam and some to another fighter, either the Ki-94 or the J7M. I haven't decided yet.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]ECONOMY[/font]

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Here is shot at the economy for the beginning of 44. I have been shoveling supply around and just spent a lot on engine factory upgrades over the last two months, but it should begin accumulating again now.

I've shut down about 2/3 of fort and nearly all other base building, including in the HI. I'm still building forts all over China as I want it to be a tar baby. With the HR against strat bombing I know I've got the extra supply longterm to do this and if some bases get above six forts the Allies could find some big surprises, especially in river crossed areas. Changsha, Nanning, Canton, Chungking, etc. Bases in x3 will also get to at least 6 forts and possibly higher. A few coastal bases in the clear will also be pushed up while others not built at all. I've got some defensive lines already mapped out. My Allied game helped with understanding good spot to hold here.

In other areas forts are mostly being built to level 4. Exceptions include the Marianas of course, the Ryukyus, Kuriles and other bases close to or on the HI that would be likely landing spots. Around the PI some bases will go to 6 also.

Other than that I'm rushing to get tankers back and forth from Singapore. Each returning amphib TF carries resources or fuel, and generally I'm trying to be as efficient as possible. When troops are back from OZ the fuel consumption by ships should drop under 10k for the first time in a while.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]ECONOMY cont.[/font]

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This shows the slight decline in supply over the past few weeks. I'll be in conservation mode for the first half of 44 if and when it's possible.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: obvert

[font="Times New Roman"]ECONOMY[/font]

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Here is shot at the economy for the beginning of 44. I have been shoveling supply around and just spent a lot on engine factory upgrades over the last two months, but it should begin accumulating again now.

I've shut down about 2/3 of fort and nearly all other base building, including in the HI. I'm still building forts all over China as I want it to be a tar baby. With the HR against strat bombing I know I've got the extra supply longterm to do this and if some bases get above six forts the Allies could find some big surprises, especially in river crossed areas. Changsha, Nanning, Canton, Chungking, etc. Bases in x3 will also get to at least 6 forts and possibly higher. A few coastal bases in the clear will also be pushed up while others not built at all. I've got some defensive lines already mapped out. My Allied game helped with understanding good spot to hold here.

In other areas forts are mostly being built to level 4. Exceptions include the Marianas of course, the Ryukyus, Kuriles and other bases close to or on the HI that would be likely landing spots. Around the PI some bases will go to 6 also.

Other than that I'm rushing to get tankers back and forth from Singapore. Each returning amphib TF carries resources or fuel, and generally I'm trying to be as efficient as possible. When troops are back from OZ the fuel consumption by ships should drop under 10k for the first time in a while.

This looks pretty good. Setting yourself up pretty nicely here for 44 and 45.

Well done [&o]

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: obvert

The A6M8 is moving forward quickly with 150 factories and the engine bonus. It should arrive soon and will be the mainstay of the IJN CVs for about a year. I've got 3 x 30 researching the Sam, or hoping to start soon, but they're being very slow to repair. Knowing I don't want to make so many A6M8 I'll switch the research to other models, some to the Sam and some to another fighter, either the Ki-94 or the J7M. I haven't decided yet.

I have found the A6M8 pretty valuable in my game. I have been able to deploy it in very large numbers (until I started to run out of Ha 33s) and it has given a very good account of itself.

From my experience, numbers in 44 and 45 are more important than quality. Whilst the Japanese airframes are clearly inferior to the Allies, Japanese fighter pilot quality tends to be very good near the end which makes a big difference.

I am not a fan of the late war fighters because of the time it takes to get them into the field, the supply cost, the lack of numbers they ultimately field and their factories are usually under attack when they are coming into production.

I should say I only play with PDU-off so that might make a difference.[:)]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: njp72

I should say I only play with PDU-off so that might make a difference.[:)]

A big difference. As you say, with PDU OFF, very few late models can be used in numbers so little value in getting them and very difficult to justify the supply expense. Frank and Sam are about it as most groups will upgrade to them, thus the supply expense can be justified. Very hard to get Sam early enough though, so that means A6M still have be used in quantity.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: njp72

ORIGINAL: obvert

The A6M8 is moving forward quickly with 150 factories and the engine bonus. It should arrive soon and will be the mainstay of the IJN CVs for about a year. I've got 3 x 30 researching the Sam, or hoping to start soon, but they're being very slow to repair. Knowing I don't want to make so many A6M8 I'll switch the research to other models, some to the Sam and some to another fighter, either the Ki-94 or the J7M. I haven't decided yet.

I have found the A6M8 pretty valuable in my game. I have been able to deploy it in very large numbers (until I started to run out of Ha 33s) and it has given a very good account of itself.

From my experience, numbers in 44 and 45 are more important than quality. Whilst the Japanese airframes are clearly inferior to the Allies, Japanese fighter pilot quality tends to be very good near the end which makes a big difference.

I am not a fan of the late war fighters because of the time it takes to get them into the field, the supply cost, the lack of numbers they ultimately field and their factories are usually under attack when they are coming into production.

I should say I only play with PDU-off so that might make a difference.[:)]

This is what I've been hearing. I didn't use it last time around because the Sam was prioritized and came in 44. The A6M8 just pushed another month, so it should arrive by March at the latest.

So a question then. Should I throw these 150 factories (incurring the supply drain it'll cost) into the Sam line once they're ready, or make 250+ A6M8?

I hear you on numbers, but that seems a lot. I wasn't so efficiency minded when I set this up several years ago, and I'm feeling conflicted by spending so much. Really, they are defensive planes, which is what I'll want, and they're service 1 which is great, but they're not better than the Ki-100 or the J2M3 (service 2), so where should I put my production? There is also the cull of IJN groups to consider in mid-44.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: njp72

I should say I only play with PDU-off so that might make a difference.[:)]

A big difference. As you say, with PDU OFF, very few late models can be used in numbers so little value in getting them and very difficult to justify the supply expense. Frank and Sam are about it as most groups will upgrade to them, thus the supply expense can be justified. Very hard to get Sam early enough though, so that means A6M still have be used in quantity.

Here with PDU-ON, and since Joseph has had to rearrange a mess on the Allied side, slowing things down, I'm hoping and planning for a game that goes past historical. With that in mind how much should I emphasize late war R & D?

I have enough in the Frank, with 110 producing, 90 researching the Ki-84b and 60 in the Ki-84r. I have enough on the N1K5 line, which total will be about 230. The Ki-100 is about to arrive and I'll switch almost all Tojo factories to it to produce about 180-200. I have another 110 total on the J2M5 line. There will be about 150 Ki-43 IV as well.

For the late war planes I have 3 x 30 on the Ki-83. Only 1 x 30 on the J7W. I have nothing so far on the Ki-94, the jets or the rocket.

So should I bother to add more to the ultra next gen planes or just hope what I have going will get me through into the late endgame?

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: njp72

I should say I only play with PDU-off so that might make a difference.[:)]

A big difference. As you say, with PDU OFF, very few late models can be used in numbers so little value in getting them and very difficult to justify the supply expense. Frank and Sam are about it as most groups will upgrade to them, thus the supply expense can be justified. Very hard to get Sam early enough though, so that means A6M still have be used in quantity.

Here with PDU-ON, and since Joseph has had to rearrange a mess on the Allied side, slowing things down, I'm hoping and planning for a game that goes past historical. With that in mind how much should I emphasize late war R & D?

I have enough in the Frank, with 110 producing, 90 researching the Ki-84b and 60 in the Ki-84r. I have enough on the N1K5 line, which total will be about 230. The Ki-100 is about to arrive and I'll switch almost all Tojo factories to it to produce about 180-200. I have another 110 total on the J2M5 line. There will be about 150 Ki-43 IV as well.

For the late war planes I have 3 x 30 on the Ki-83. Only 1 x 30 on the J7W. I have nothing so far on the Ki-94, the jets or the rocket.

So should I bother to add more to the ultra next gen planes or just hope what I have going will get me through into the late endgame?

Well I would say no for the following reasons:

1. A competent Allied player will be in range of the homeland by either mid to late 44 and then Japan will burn. Depending how much and whether it is by night or day will be judged by the strength of the Japanese air defence system and how quickly it breaks down. It will also depend on the Allied player and how aggressive they are. Some will baulk at the losses whilst others will simply see it as a means to the end.

2. For me, the integrity of the air defence network over the home islands is built on sheer numbers and plentiful supply. Devoting scarce resources to late war airframes potentially compromises both.

3. No matter how hard I have tried in various games and the massive losses sustained, the Allies don't seem to run out of critical airframes, especially 4E bombers. As we all know, they have the ability to shut down any airfield in Japan with one massive concerted effort. I fear many advanced aircraft after battling sweeps for several days will simply be destroyed on the ground.

I have also attached the number of destroyed aircraft from my current game. As you will note the numbers are huge [X(]

Just my 2 cents [:)]

[Lowpe]

NJP is pretty spot on....but some food for thought:

If you have the engine production, then I would keep making the Tojo IIc for the rest of the game with some factories. It can be a wonderful escort for those shorter range kamikaze strikes freeing up your better frames for other duties; it can fly very low CAP and still do well; you have already spent the supply to make them; and it makes an excellent CAP Trap plane over TFs. Plus you are pdu on, and can downgrade to it should you start to run short of better fighters.

Yes, there are better planes available -- but you don't have to spend any supply to keep the Tojo IIc in production which makes it special.

On late planes: Well, I feel you need the Sam. Sam, George, A6M8 and Jack for the Navy. All four have different uses.

Army: You have the bases covered very well with Frank, Tony, Tojo, Oscar. What more do you really want? I steer clear from the twin engine fighters for two reason: cost & repair times. However, I do like fighter bombers to give you deep defense against deep B29 strikes etc. This will allow you to defend HI with FB while better squadrons can be closer to the front lines. Also, FB make for good kamikazes although here again I like Jill & Judy and would prefer leaving the FB defending bomber strikes.

If you dump 150,000 supply into a final generation fighter, say the Ki94II, can you get a ROI off that supply? Will it preserve your industry? VP wise it is a good purchase IMHO.

The other thing to consider is that the Allies are like a rock going downhill, and if you neglect your night fighters they will go that route.

And finally, there seem to be quite a few Allied players that simply to don't strategic bomb much and against those players you have more freedom to pursue a late war fighters I think as that does greatly change your supply dynamic.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP is pretty spot on....but some food for thought:

If you have the engine production, then I would keep making the Tojo IIc for the rest of the game with some factories. It can be a wonderful escort for those shorter range kamikaze strikes freeing up your better frames for other duties; it can fly very low CAP and still do well; you have already spent the supply to make them; and it makes an excellent CAP Trap plane over TFs. Plus you are pdu on, and can downgrade to it should you start to run short of better fighters.

Yes, there are better planes available -- but you don't have to spend any supply to keep the Tojo IIc in production which makes it special.

On late planes: Well, I feel you need the Sam. Sam, George, A6M8 and Jack for the Navy. All four have different uses.

Army: You have the bases covered very well with Frank, Tony, Tojo, Oscar. What more do you really want? I steer clear from the twin engine fighters for two reason: cost & repair times. However, I do like fighter bombers to give you deep defense against deep B29 strikes etc. This will allow you to defend HI with FB while better squadrons can be closer to the front lines. Also, FB make for good kamikazes although here again I like Jill & Judy and would prefer leaving the FB defending bomber strikes.

If you dump 150,000 supply into a final generation fighter, say the Ki94II, can you get a ROI off that supply? Will it preserve your industry? VP wise it is a good purchase IMHO.

The other thing to consider is that the Allies are like a rock going downhill, and if you neglect your night fighters they will go that route.

And finally, there seem to be quite a few Allied players that simply to don't strategic bomb much and against those players you have more freedom to pursue a late war fighters I think as that does greatly change your supply dynamic.

+1 Lowpe and I have also found the Tojo IIC to have played a very important role in the air defence of Japan. A very serviceable aircraft which can still do damage in 45.

[Lokasenna]

Ditch the Oscar. You don't need it. It's mediocre and the Ki-100-I is better in every respect except for the range, and honestly the Oscar performs so poorly against the bigger/badder Allied planes that it doesn't really matter on escort.

Don't dump 150 factories into the Sam research, but 250 A6M8 is probably too many. It's more than I'm producing, and your aerial pace of game might be similar to mine (which is much slower than njp's). I'm about 4 months ahead of you in game time with 3K more Japanese losses and 2K more Allied losses than your game. I think numbers were comparable when at your point in time. I ended up with 255 A6M8 factories and it's definitely too many, but I don't have a place I want to change them to at this point. I'm very conservative about changing factories to the point that it might bite me in the rear end later because I did it too late (for example, abandoning the Oscar).

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: njp72

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP is pretty spot on....but some food for thought:

If you have the engine production, then I would keep making the Tojo IIc for the rest of the game with some factories. It can be a wonderful escort for those shorter range kamikaze strikes freeing up your better frames for other duties; it can fly very low CAP and still do well; you have already spent the supply to make them; and it makes an excellent CAP Trap plane over TFs. Plus you are pdu on, and can downgrade to it should you start to run short of better fighters.

Yes, there are better planes available -- but you don't have to spend any supply to keep the Tojo IIc in production which makes it special.

On late planes: Well, I feel you need the Sam. Sam, George, A6M8 and Jack for the Navy. All four have different uses.

Army: You have the bases covered very well with Frank, Tony, Tojo, Oscar. What more do you really want? I steer clear from the twin engine fighters for two reason: cost & repair times. However, I do like fighter bombers to give you deep defense against deep B29 strikes etc. This will allow you to defend HI with FB while better squadrons can be closer to the front lines. Also, FB make for good kamikazes although here again I like Jill & Judy and would prefer leaving the FB defending bomber strikes.

If you dump 150,000 supply into a final generation fighter, say the Ki94II, can you get a ROI off that supply? Will it preserve your industry? VP wise it is a good purchase IMHO.

The other thing to consider is that the Allies are like a rock going downhill, and if you neglect your night fighters they will go that route.

And finally, there seem to be quite a few Allied players that simply to don't strategic bomb much and against those players you have more freedom to pursue a late war fighters I think as that does greatly change your supply dynamic.

+1 Lowpe and I have also found the Tojo IIC to have played a very important role in the air defence of Japan. A very serviceable aircraft which can still do damage in 45.

Ok. So. It sounds like the consensus is that the supply is more valuable, but what if the game goes into late 45? Then the Allied planes are so much better that Japanese fighters will essentially be VP farms. Unless some decent faster defensive fighters can also step up.

In my one trip through I found the Tojo IIc to drop off significantly in mid-44, but I was maybe not employing them as well as I could now either. I'm willing to give them another shot, fly them low, and see what happens. If they can't hack it I use them up for escorts and last ditch defense in numbers. They do climb, and that can be helpful en masse.

The Ki-83 is worth the cost. It is awesome. It allows the Japanese to actually sweep in 45. Having some offensive bite can still pay dividends if that means I can strike at critical ports, airfields, or deflect and deplete CV CAP for a big strike.

I see the Ki-94 being in that category, and that is how Mr Kane used them against GreyJoy, with the Ki-83 and Frank 'r.'

The J7W can provide some much needed 1:1 with the best Allied sweepers. In limited use I had great results with it. Not only does this help prevent the kind of massed destruction of any place on the map by Allied bombing in daylight, it also kills Allied aces. The one place in the late war the Japanese still have an advantage is in numbers of good pilots. Not the best, but more 70+ pilots than the Allies.

Joseph could go for the Kuriles in the Spring, or the Marianas, and surely that would change what is possible, but right now it looks like this game has a lot riding on Burma and So Pac, both far from the HI. I don't want to be left without options for 8/45 and beyond. Remember also no strat bombing in China, so extra supply production that must be taken back, not strat bombed.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ditch the Oscar. You don't need it. It's mediocre and the Ki-100-I is better in every respect except for the range, and honestly the Oscar performs so poorly against the bigger/badder Allied planes that it doesn't really matter on escort.

Don't dump 150 factories into the Sam research, but 250 A6M8 is probably too many. It's more than I'm producing, and your aerial pace of game might be similar to mine (which is much slower than njp's). I'm about 4 months ahead of you in game time with 3K more Japanese losses and 2K more Allied losses than your game. I think numbers were comparable when at your point in time. I ended up with 255 A6M8 factories and it's definitely too many, but I don't have a place I want to change them to at this point. I'm very conservative about changing factories to the point that it might bite me in the rear end later because I did it too late (for example, abandoning the Oscar).

I'll think about it, but what will help more is to try both the Ki-100 and Oscar IV in similar situations. I'll do that before completely abandoning the Oscar. I used it often to escort long strikes and to show up long distances away or LR CAP farther than would be expected. Range is useful, too.

I see it as a Low layer on the CAP and an escort late, still, especially when my A6M8 are so short ranged.

Thanks for the A6M8 advice especially. I sensed it would be too many, but you're right, I don't have to change them into anything just because I can. I've already been much more selective about this and I have about 200 factories not producing right now until I know I need to change them into something else.

I will need more Ki-100 and more Sams though, so I'll probably reduce Tojos at least to make around 200 Ki-100 and change at least some of the A6M8 to Sam as I am only researching 3 x 30. That isn't enough for production once I have them. I would say 150. Yes?

[Lokasenna]

The Ki-102a allows you to sweep also. And somewhat the George...

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[font="Times New Roman"]8-10 January, 1944[/font]

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[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]BURMA: [/font] Some single ship TFs have been moving to Ramree to unload supply. I've noticed this for a few weeks, but held off doing anything as I didn't want him to send in fighters to the base or develop a need for an Allied naval presence there (I'm still sending a bunch of units and supply into Rangoon and so far nothing has been hit).

I noticed more ships than usual on the 8th and decided this was a good time to take a stab at it. In the early hours of the 9th E Tsuga ran in and hit xAK Gogra with shells and one fish, sinking her. She also got to xAK Bucegi and left her with heavy fires before retiring.

During the day Jills found an xAKL and put it under as well.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SW PAC: [/font] This day worked well on another side of the war too, with a similar situation developing around the forward Allied bases in the Solomons. I'd noticed some larger TFs at Rekata and Munda, and I sent in the Judys and Lilys for a shot following sweeps. I wanted these attacks to be coordinated on the same day to make sure the Allies didn't beef up protection everywhere, and all worked to perfection, but there was no CAP to be found. [X(]

A large TF of 4 xAP, 7 xAK and two AM was decimated and to top it off it still had troops unloading! Based on the reports of the five AM and PM strikes it looks like the entire TF was sunk and the Allies lose at least 360+ deveices! We lost ten planes to flak and ops in all areas. A good haul in exchange for unused, undeveloped bases and no loss of troops or naval assets. [8D]

CAP traps will surely appear in the area soon as the engineers that did land build up these bases. I'll hang back, keep upgrading air groups and wait for the next wave.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]West Oz: [/font] All is complete now here and troops are moving out. Some small Coy units on the way to provide garrisons for coastal bases. A few small bases forces and a naval guard for Perth will round out the commitments here.
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR January 9, 42
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Ramree Island at 54,48, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Tsuga

Allied Ships
xAK Gogra, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Ramree Island at 54,48, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Tsuga

Allied Ships
xAK Bucegi, Shell hits 7, heavy fires

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 26
D4Y1 Judy x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
xAP Wallingford, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Canadian
xAK Ohioan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Californian, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
xAP Cape Perpetua, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AM Sheldrake, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Coast Trader, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
562 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 31 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 23 destroyed, 15 disabled
Vehicles lost 57 (35 destroyed, 22 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
12 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Massive explosion on xAP Wallingford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Ohioan
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AM Sheldrake
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Coast Trader

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 5 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK City of Rayville, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Cape Perpetua, on fire
xAP Wallingford, heavy fires
xAK Coast Trader, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
210 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 9 disabled
Vehicles lost 15 (4 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Cape Perpetua
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Wallingford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Coast Trader
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK City of Rayville

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 35
Ki-48-IIb Lily x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIb Lily: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
xAP Am. Builder, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Ohioan, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Canadian, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Sawokla, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Cape Perpetua, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
547 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 28 destroyed, 47 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 8 disabled
Vehicles lost 32 (19 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 100 kg SAP Bomb
7 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 1000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 100 kg SAP Bomb
2 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 3000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 100 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Am. Builder
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Ohioan
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Sawokla
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Canadian
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Cape Perpetua

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAP Wallingford, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Strive, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Cape Newenham, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
178 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (6 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
12 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Wallingford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Cape Newenham
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AM Strive

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAP Cape Perpetua, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Cape Newenham, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Am. Builder, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Wallingford, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
1865 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 86 destroyed, 121 disabled
Engineers: 45 destroyed, 41 disabled
Vehicles lost 49 (27 destroyed, 22 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
5 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Cape Newenham
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Am. Builder
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Wallingford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP Cape Perpetua

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ramree Island at 54,48

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N1 Jill x 24
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Jalatarang, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B6N1 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]It is rare in my experience to get good hits on Allied TFs unloading troops, and this was fun to watch! To get all of the ships (totaling about 100+ VPs) and about a brigade equivalent or more destroyed (for another 80+ VPs) is fantastic. That is the kind of tithe I'll be looking for each step of the Allied advances. It won't always happen, I'm sure. [/font]

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[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The Ki-102a allows you to sweep also. And somewhat the George...

Yes. Based on your input earlier I'll still consider building some Ki-102a, but of course that would mean converting more factories. I'll see where the Ki-83 is at and judge from there. I do have the Ki-102b and Ki-102c researching at 1 x 30 each.

I'll be curious to see how much better the N1K5 is as a sweeper. With those extra guns and 380mph is should be okay. Certainly against Hellcats.