OT: Corona virus

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Somebody told me today that the bad colds with possible alimentary distress going around since December may have been the COViD-19 virus. She said that a nurse told her.

I will do a quick look for further information.

Without actual testing it would be impossible to say whether it was seasonal flu or COVID-19. Sounds speculative since AFAIK there was not a sudden increase in US cases in early January which would happen with a two-week gestation time.

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Somebody told me today that the bad colds with possible alimentary distress going around since December may have been the COViD-19 virus. She said that a nurse told her.

I will do a quick look for further information.

A study (I don't have the link now) I read that should be searchable said a scientist traced the genetic markers to a probable origin case in mid-late October.

A lot of people I know have had a lingering cold this winter, with lots of post-nasal drip and persistent cough, but that just won't go away. It seems to keep the nasal area congested past it's endpoint, and then if you get run down it roars back. I've had something (or a series of things) this winter that haven't felt like something I'd had before, and my wife had it too. Interestingly our daughter (3) hasn't had the same stuff.

She did travel to China and got back to London on Nov 17, the day the first case is believed to have been admitted to hospital in Wuhan. She was in Sian, so not right there, though not too far either.

Anything in the gut is usually not Covid, which is why at least one patient with gut symptoms was put in a surgical ward in Wuhan and infected 14 other people with Covid. So it happens, it's just rare.

[RangerJoe]

Now you know why some people need to be hospitalied.

Cytokine release syndrome (CRS) is a form of systemic inflammatory response syndrome that arises as a complication of some diseases or infections, and is also an adverse effect of some monoclonal antibody drugs, as well as adoptive T-cell therapies.[3][4] Severe cases have been called cytokine storms.[2] When occurring as a result of drug administration, it is also known as an infusion reaction.

Signs and symptoms

Symptoms include fever, fatigue, loss of appetite, muscle and joint pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, rashes, fast breathing, rapid heartbeat, low blood pressure, seizures, headache, confusion, delirium, hallucinations, tremor, and loss of coordination.

Lab tests and clinical monitoring show low blood oxygen, widened pulse pressure, increased cardiac output (early), potentially diminished cardiac output (late), high nitrogen levels in blood, elevated D-dimer, elevated transaminases, factor I deficiency and excessive bleeding, higher-than-normal level of bilirubin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome

Cytokine Storm and Herbs: Life or Death Information!

https://www.naturalmedicinemamas.com/nm ... nformation

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Many people hear the word "Cytokine Storm" and think it is a weather prediction.

However, this storm is one that can kill you. It is a "body weather prediction".

A cytokine storm can kill you. It occurs when a very severe viral infection (such as Swine Flu H1N1 or Bird Flu H5N1) takes control of your immune system and causes immune confusion in your body. Basically your body starts to work on overdrive and becomes really confused. This reaction called "Cytokine Storm" over activates your body to where normal feedback loops designed to calm things down fail to operate. (See the Medical Dictionary definition here.)

Your immune system becomes a runaway freight train where high fever, massive inflammation, extreme fatigue, vomiting and diarrhea dominate every minute of your existence. Did you know that MOST of the 25 million people that died in the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic died from a cytokine storm? Wow... that's good information to know. You don’t want to be caught in a cytokine storm.
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Cytokine Storm and Herbs: Life or Death Information!

10/21/2015

21 Comments
Picture
Many people hear the word "Cytokine Storm" and think it is a weather prediction.

However, this storm is one that can kill you. It is a "body weather prediction".

A cytokine storm can kill you. It occurs when a very severe viral infection (such as Swine Flu H1N1 or Bird Flu H5N1) takes control of your immune system and causes immune confusion in your body. Basically your body starts to work on overdrive and becomes really confused. This reaction called "Cytokine Storm" over activates your body to where normal feedback loops designed to calm things down fail to operate. (See the Medical Dictionary definition here.)

Your immune system becomes a runaway freight train where high fever, massive inflammation, extreme fatigue, vomiting and diarrhea dominate every minute of your existence. Did you know that MOST of the 25 million people that died in the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic died from a cytokine storm? Wow... that's good information to know. You don’t want to be caught in a cytokine storm.

So what does this have to do with you and your family?

I know what you are thinking... "that's great and all, but what does it have to do with me?"

It actually has A LOT to do with you, especially if you are the caretaker of your family, especially if you are using alternative medicine on a consistent basis. Educating yourself about this is EXTREMELY important.

You see, when someone in your house gets "the sniffles" there are so many wonderful ways of treating the illness through a natural route. Elderberry Syrup, First Defense, essential oils, diffusing, baths, glycerides, tinctures... In essence there are a lot of resources to use in order to combat the illness before it gets worse.

However, if someone in your care (including yourself of course) gets ill and it keeps getting worse, and worse, and worse and worse... you could be FEEDING the problem by what herbs you are using.

There are some herbs that COMBAT the Cytokine Storm and aid your body in fighting it, and there are other herbs that actually make it worse.

Here is a list of herbs that help to COMBAT Cytokine Storm (and if you keep getting more and more sick, these are the herbs to INCREASE), basically the good guys:
-Turmeric
-Yarrow
-Cayenne
-Garlic
-Horseradish
-Red Raspberry
-Skullcap
-St. Johns Wort
-Tea Tree Oil
-Vitamin C (lots of it!)

Now... here is a list of herbs to STOP taking if an illness is starting to escalate to a BAD stage, basically the bad guys:
-Elderberry
-Echinacea
-Honey (any sugar of any kind makes it worse)
-Chocolate
-Colloidal Silver
-Kimchee

So... How do I recognize a Cytokine Storm?

Once again, if you or anyone in your care is just starting to get sick, the risk of cytokine storm is NOT real. It's okay to use Elderberry Syrup and First Defense, honey syrups, echinacea and all the other things on that list.

However, if these signs show up and the illness keeps escalating, then be aware that a Cytokine Storm could be upon you:
-High Fever for extended period of time (102*+ for 2 full days without breaking) - See this article about the basics of fevers, gives excellent information and medical guidelines.
-Swelling and redness on the body
-EXTREME fatigue
-Nausea and diarrhea consistent for 2 full days
-Rapid resting heart rate (over 100 beats per minute)

Remember, please seek medical attention in the case of an emergency. Don't avoid medical help when a Cytokine Storm could be upon you or anyone in your care - because it can be fatal!

I suggest that the entire article is read.

[Encircled]

https://twitter.com/hancocktom/status/1 ... V6k6HRp5qU

Not a good start to the UK plan for dealing with this.

I mean, what a complete and utter s**tshow which is going to cost people their lives.

[RangerJoe]

Matt Colvin, a Tennessee man who received severe backlash after stockpiling 17,700 bottles of hand sanitizer donated all of the supplies, just as the Tennessee attorney general’s office began investigating him for price gouging.

https://news.yahoo.com/video/tenn-man-1 ... 59927.html

[Canoerebel]

That might've been MakeeLearn? [:)]

[RangerJoe]

Coronavirus vaccine test opens with 1st doses

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03- ... -shot.html

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK and remembering/interpreting what I have heard in those interviews with experts, they look at droplets coughed out but also just at the plain old exhalation from an infected person. Certainly cover your own coughs, and certainly wash your hands, but one of the experts stressed multiple times that so far the evidence was (always might be new evidence by now) that the primary means of transmission was simply breathing.

One of them commented on what he judged the really bad idea of keeping the passengers on cruise ships with infected passengers, because cruise ships (as he said it) are notorious for recirculating the air through the passenger cabins. They (as he said it) basically insured more people would become infected, and IIRC he even termed it a form of torture.

So, I'm sure you can catch it by other means too, but it seems (IIRC) the most insidious route is simply an infected person breaths out and a non-infected person breaths in enough of that, then becomes infected.

That's the sort of thing the media loves to do, take pieces of a scientific study out of context, thus generating more fear and panic (literally their bread and butter).

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

[8D]

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

Any tone of ridicule in my post was definitely NOT aimed at you. But how scary is this? Joe Average at home can easily debunk "infectious disease experts" simply by performing a few simple internet searches? It actually PROVES that some number of these "experts" are getting their information straight from the headlines, since the actual studies are available and quite easy to interpret. Lazy jerks.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

Any tone of ridicule in my post was definitely NOT aimed at you. But how scary is this? Joe Average at home can easily debunk "infectious disease experts" simply by performing a few simple internet searches? It actually PROVES that some number of these "experts" are getting their information straight from the headlines, since the actual studies are available and quite easy to interpret. Lazy jerks.

A lot of times the "experts" in whatever field just repeat what other people have said, whether or not they read the studies, did the historical research, etc.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

Any tone of ridicule in my post was definitely NOT aimed at you. But how scary is this? Joe Average at home can easily debunk "infectious disease experts" simply by performing a few simple internet searches? It actually PROVES that some number of these "experts" are getting their information straight from the headlines, since the actual studies are available and quite easy to interpret. Lazy jerks.

A lot of times the "experts" in whatever field just repeat what other people have said, whether or not they read the studies, did the historical research, etc.

Unfortunately true. "I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet" syndrome.

[Scott_USN]

The reaction to this virus is so dangerous the actual virus is scared!

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

Any tone of ridicule in my post was definitely NOT aimed at you. But how scary is this? Joe Average at home can easily debunk "infectious disease experts" simply by performing a few simple internet searches? It actually PROVES that some number of these "experts" are getting their information straight from the headlines, since the actual studies are available and quite easy to interpret. Lazy jerks.

While I agree that many times "experts" who appear in news blurbs (whether printed/video/audio) do as you say, the three lengthy interviews I watched/listed to with three different ones who are dealing with this convinced me such is not the case with them.

Even if I am 100% right about that, they still might be mistaken in various things they said. They all were very (I think professionally so) careful about what is known, how well it is known, etc.

The statement one of them made about cruise ship ventilation might easily be wrong, or he might be right for many cases or at points in time. That is the sort of out-of-expertise area knowledge I expect even a responsible expert could get wrong. Or he could have subject matter knowledge about that industry that goes deeper than we think (disclaimer: I haven't taken time to read your second note which included cruise ship comments). I don't know.

Importantly, at least for my own peace of mind, I am willing to constantly evaluate both new information and their sources, and realize that anyone might have information which is true or false. I do think those three guys know what they are talking about, and part of what gives me confidence in what they said was their up front reminder that in a few days they might totally disagree with what they previously said.

And, I did not take any sense of ridicule to be directed at me (thank you!). [8D]

[Scott_USN]

In a few weeks people will be like what?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

In a few weeks people will be like what?

I don't get the gist of your question. What aspect of people (very complex critters) are you thinking of? Medical condition? Emotional state? Mental state? Political opinion? Physical condition? Financial condition? Nutritional condition? etc.

[Kursk1943]

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

In a few weeks people will be like what?

It seems to bring out the best and worst in men, as common in big crises. So we have in Germany the panic buyers and internet trolls with fake news, but for example on the other hand a lot of spontaneous offers for helping especially elderly people by pupils and students since the close down of schools and universities.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Just to be clear, I did not get that from any reporter, strictly from the interviews with infectious disease experts. Whether what was said turns out to be right or wrong or in-between, that's where I got it.

Any tone of ridicule in my post was definitely NOT aimed at you. But how scary is this? Joe Average at home can easily debunk "infectious disease experts" simply by performing a few simple internet searches? It actually PROVES that some number of these "experts" are getting their information straight from the headlines, since the actual studies are available and quite easy to interpret. Lazy jerks.

While I agree that many times "experts" who appear in news blurbs (whether printed/video/audio) do as you say, the three lengthy interviews I watched/listed to with three different ones who are dealing with this convinced me such is not the case with them.

Even if I am 100% right about that, they still might be mistaken in various things they said. They all were very (I think professionally so) careful about what is known, how well it is known, etc.

The statement one of them made about cruise ship ventilation might easily be wrong, or he might be right for many cases or at points in time. That is the sort of out-of-expertise area knowledge I expect even a responsible expert could get wrong. Or he could have subject matter knowledge about that industry that goes deeper than we think (disclaimer: I haven't taken time to read your second note which included cruise ship comments). I don't know.

Importantly, at least for my own peace of mind, I am willing to constantly evaluate both new information and their sources, and realize that anyone might have information which is true or false. I do think those three guys know what they are talking about, and part of what gives me confidence in what they said was their up front reminder that in a few days they might totally disagree with what they previously said.

And, I did not take any sense of ridicule to be directed at me (thank you!). [8D]

While we don't know the mechanisms completely, and studies are only accumulating from very new data and the older Chinese data, we do know the virus spreads effectively. That should tell us all we really need to know to help protect ourselves and those who are vulnerable.

As more data becomes available and different strategies take effect, we will of course know more. We also have little understanding of why some cases are worse than others, but perhaps genetics, lifestyle, types of exposure and types of the virus might be responsible. We do know there have been two versions of Coronavirus in circulation, but how many more will develop as it moves throughout the world's now more isolated populations?

Th most important points are that social distancing flattens the curve. Complete quarantine is also effective to flatten the curve, however it's unclear what might happen when restrictions are released. Little action at all seems of course the worst choice.

I heard anecdotal reports yesterday from my mother via her friends, on a road trip through the west. They said that in Arizona (and everywhere they'd been so far) it's all business as usual with restaurants open, tourists at sites, and little evidence this is happening at all.

Has that changed since the recent encouragements for restrictions by the Federal govt? Mixed reports from a friend in Philly last night. Fingers crossed people pay attention and act to reduce transmission.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Here is some fun to deflate the seriousness.


I'am in the health care profession and we are having difficulties getting certain things that we buy at the store. As other people walk out with 3 months supply.

[:)] People have 6 months of toilet paper and 2 weeks of food.


There is so much I could write on current events and how we got here.

A fact to ponder:

D-Day
Men in the 1st wave to hit the beaches were told that casualties would be in the 90 percentile. I've never been able to find any record of someone backing out.

Here is something I hope you find funny. I have wised up!!! For the past year I have been doing "Cleaning" within myself. I have turned the core of my thinking back a few hundred years

Someone of today's mold might look at me now and say:

"He is a racist, misogynist, bigot, ... and all the other bad words of today's world."

But NO matter what they call me it contains the word "Man". And I'am drowning in women, 18 to 80. And the ones that disagree with my beliefs are the ones most attracted to me.

I will probably be shot by a jealous husband.

Someone has to be in that first wave.[:D]

That D-Day statistic is indeed sobering - it is why as the last veterans pass away we should strive to ensure that their generation is never forgotten.

Perhaps it has some relevance to the current situation in terms of people appreciating that things could be a lot worse.

But at the same time you can come at it from a different direction - in terms of total population the fatality rates for the US and UK were 0.32% and 0.94% respectively. The current global CV-19 fatality rate stands at 3.7%. So even if just a quarter of the UK/US population eventually becomes infected you are looking at a WW2 scale loss of life.

As an aside, I think whenever discussing WW2 fatality rates it is always worth drawing comparision of the US/UK rates above with the USSR estimated loss of c13-14% of their population and the estimate that roughly half of the pre-war European Jewish population were killed in the Holocaust. As above that is not to denigrate the US/UK and certainly not those that served in the armed forces - I just think it is important to keep in perspective a) the contribution of the USSR, whatever our more recent political differences with them and b) the scale of the Holocaust.

With so little food, why do they need that much toilet paper?

Exactly, that is the mindset.

[MakeeLearn]

I've just worked 3 12-16hr days. Our clients got put on quarantine Sunday. We have new procedures to deal with CV19. We had to send "The Scrounger Hendley" out to find enough hand sanitizers and other over the counter products we use.

I use spices for culinary and medicinal uses. And I eat a anti-inflammatory diet. So, If I get hopefully I can weather the storm.

Looks like this thread is becoming War and Peace.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

"The Scrounger Hendley" out to find enough hand sanitizers and other over the counter products we use.

warspite1

I hear a guy called Werner is a good source for these kind of things [;)]