Andy Mac v PZB ....The Allies Fight Back

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

As you can see, Japan produced 55000 aircraft in 1943, 1944 and the first 8 months of 1945. That's an average of over 1700 aircraft a month.

Chez

I don't want to give away too much intel (as I read PzBs AAR too) but I think you will find that that the top 4 Jap fighter production per month EXCEEDS 1700 airframes. So Japan is vastly out producing the US.

All credit to you Andy for surviving this long against the industrial might of Japan (the arsenal of the Axis powers)

[Andy Mac]

Unfortuantely CVR's are now a liability Speedy as I cannot train the 100 or so naval pilots on board and they will replenish my fleet carriers with 30xp pilots and I cannot train them if they stay on board the CVR's.
 
So I need to stop using them as of now.
 
Re Japanese production I believe he will be training thousands of aircraft but I dont really care its more VP's for me----(correction I didnt really care)-----my quality was winning out now it is an issue 144 hellcats with 75xp replacement pilots were losing in battles with multi hundred un trained pilots
 
Now I will be fighting those same battles with 30xp pilots it becomes a straight attrirional war that I CANNOT win.
 
the USN is officially out of the naval race
 
Andy

[Andy Mac]

If anyone has any bright ideas as to how I can survive without trained pilots when I am outproduced in excess of 10:1 in the important aircraft I am happy to hear it.
 
Anyone ?
 
(My only option is to start using Marines on my Carriers but I only have 1,000 pilots in the Marine pool so I am not sure how long they will last in this kind of attritional fight either ----- thats what 5 days worth of Marine Pilots)
 
Andy

[saj42]

With my limited knowledge of the finer detail of yours and PzBs production, unfortunately I can't see a solution. He is out-producing you, he is out-training you and he's fighting on his turf. Even if you set up training schools of your own, to be even on pilot quality, he still has that quantitive edge; the current combat model favours the larger formations

[ChezDaJez]

I don't want to give away too much intel (as I read PzBs AAR too) but I think you will find that that the top 4 Jap fighter production per month EXCEEDS 1700 airframes. So Japan is vastly out producing the US.

Hi Tallyho,

I have no idea how many airframes PzB is producing per month but considering that Japan produced over 2300 per month IRL during 1944, the 1700+ that PxB is producing is not out of line HOWEVER the inability of the allied player to optimize his production is. I don't favor allowing the allies to increase production but I do favor allowing the allied player to be able decide what airframes he wants to build. And USN pilot replacements are too low.

Andy,

On map pilot training is a slow process. Setting training to 60% vice 90% (fighters can only train at 90%) will reduce ops losses but slow the training. It takes nearly 90 days to raise a 30 exp pilot to 50 or so. I normally use 50% becuase I can't afford the supplies and the ops losses that occur at 90%. Doesn't do any good to train the pilots if I lose half of them in the process. Training at a size 9/10 base will help reduce the losses.

Your fleet carriers are still a threat to PzB and its a threat that he must respect. He doesn't know which carriers are low on experience. They may have lost a bit of their offensive punch but their defense is still great. The trick is to stay out of range of his better fighters. Let your CAP engage his Zekes when they escort his attacks. Even though your pilot experience is lower than you are used to, it is still sufficient to be effective with the Hellcats just from the sheer size of the CAP. Just don't try any offensive missions where he might have strong fighter forces. Let him come to you. Every Kamikaze strike he launches reduces his pilot pool. If he wants to get a hit he MUST use experienced pilots. One thing you might want to try is using DD/DEs as pickets to absorb kamikaze strikes. Place them just inside his fighter escort range and then LR CAP them while your carriers remain out of range of him. In this way you can train fighter pilots during real operations without exposing the carriers to too much danger.

KB is gone, destroyed. That means PzB's surface forces can no longer operate unless within range of land based fighters. His surface forces are no longer a major threat. They are good now for only kamikaze type missions so his oil production should no longer be a priority target. His resources are what's keeping his air forces in the air. Go after the resources! If you are in range of Tobaoli, bomb it. Thats 900 resources right there. The same with Soerabaja and any other place that produces lots of resources. Resources should be your target now. Put subs off of those ports to interdict the shipping. Without resources, he cannot continue to produce airframes. He may have a large pool of resources in the home islands to continue producing aircrafmes for several months but eventually he will run out. Plus bombing the resources in the SRA reduces his ability to keep the SRA supplied. Without supplies, he can't fly.

Anyways just may thoughts. The USN, even with reduced pilot experience is still formidable. Establishing an airbase on Borneo that allows your LBA to fly from it will have ttremendous effect on his ability to keep resources flowing to the home islands.

Chez

[Andy Mac]

No turn tonight so a few data screens

[Andy Mac]

My last crop of pilots and aircraft...the CVR's are empty

[Fishbed]

Andy, there is no way someone may edit your save and give you a thousand hellcats and transfer a thousand pilots from USAF in the pools? I suppose PzB wouldn't oppose that if it was possible - he'd better fight Hellcats than Corsairs anyway [:)]

[Andy Mac]

Could happen I suppose I doubt PZB would object but I will proceed on the assumption it isnt going to happen in many ways it makes what was already a very interesting game more fun !!!!
 
44 had the potential to be very boring....not anymore !!!!

[Andy Mac]

Still not had a turn from PZB given all the activity on his AAR I suspect something is going on......
 
If I dont have a turn early tonight I will use the time (after doing my other opponents turns) going through all my carriers and listing frames pilots and average xp just to show the scale of the issue.
 
I think it will be illuminating
 
Andy

[ChezDaJez]

Andy, there is no way someone may edit your save and give you a thousand hellcats and transfer a thousand pilots from USAF in the pools?

Andy, I see this as a very gamey solution. IRL you couldn't say, "Hey God, can you give me 1000 more Hellcats?" As far as pilots go, the USN would have (and did) draw pilots from other similarly equipped groups to replace their losses in front line units. Yorktown drew from VF-42 to fill out VF-3 just prior to Midway. We can't do this in the game very well unless you split groups and disband them into others. That may be an option here. How many ground based Hellcats units do you have?

The US never transferred pilot from one service to the other. Given the rivalry between the Navy and the Army, I could just hear the Generals now. "Admiral, you need what!?! Ha Ha Ha!" Besides training Army pilots to operate from carriers would take as long as it does to train green Navy pilots. It took several weeks to train Doolittle's fliers and all they had to do was take off from a carrier! (Ok, a slightly different situation, I know[:D])

Look at the overall situation. I don't know how many carriers you have participating in this operation but I'm sure that they are still fully operational in terms of aircraft and trained pilots. Sure, PzB trains his pilots in China but for every unit training, that is one less that you face at the front. He too took tremendous losses and must retrain his pilots. His green pilots arrive with an experience of 20 or less, yours are at 30. That's still an advantage to you. Your timeline may have to be adjusted but this is not a gamebreaker IMO. Use the Corsair units to temporarily fill in for training units.

One question concerning CVERs. When they refill, do you have control over how many pilots and aircraft come aboard? Or do they automatically fill to the 54 maximum? If you can control how many come aboard, you can keep the levels lower so that you can train at least some of them.
Anyways, just my thoughts.

Chez

[Andy Mac]

Chez I am going to limit this response as I am in a hurry to get on with the turn as you will see on my next post.
 
But while in principle I agree with you about amending games in progress (and am not seeking this for this game) I am owed nearly 2000 hellcats that the US had historically in pools just now that are present as Nightfighter Variants or dont exist and I am restricted from using my other carrier capable front line fighter by the historical view that Corsairs didnt deploy to carriers as we stand I would kill to be allowed to downgrade carrier sqns to Wildcats.
 
I have broken the Japanese Air force not once or twice but multiple times but Chinese training and massive flexible production makes it all for nothing.
 
I have ZERO ground based Hellcats
 
In this game as it plays just now anyone that uses more than 1 or 2 CVRs is kiddding themselves on as they suck up to many pilots.
 
Sorry to be blunt but the Hellcat replacement rate is chicken shit and I am very very unhappy about the allies getting screwed this way.
 
Re my pilots I will manage it it is an issue that has arisen because of the un ending stream of trained chinese pilots in a timescale that is totally over the top I am in fact extremely annoyed by this but I will go on to win despite it because I am having a lot of fun.
 
The fact is having done the hard work at the Marianas with my forces 2 days from landing I realised it was mission impossible despite my preparation and I lost a lot of planes and pilots getting to that conclusion.
 
I then switched targets and jumped to far to fast at Zamboanga and got punished for it kudos to PZB but it is a SAD day that the loss of 200 aircraft from US pools the "arsenal of democracy" is not worth sinking 5 Jap CV's. Apologies but this is really bugging me now.
 
If I use Corsairs its Gamey if I dont I am screwed I think its safe to say I am NOT happy.

[Andy Mac]

Ooooh

[aztez]

Intresting turn ahead indeed.
 
How are your pilots and squadrons now at your fleet carriers? High on morale and not fatigued?
 
If you still got plenty of fighters available and your CV bombers are ready than this is a good chance.
 
You destroy and heavy damage his battle fleet will buy you more time. I mean you could use LBA's to cover advances once enemy BB's and heavy fleet is neutralized. That would buy you time to raise some fighters into the pool. (I do agree that Hellcat production is quite unreasonable) I have actually docked my Hellcats and rested them a while in my PBEM againts FDR 7/1944. I think I have around 800 in the pools but the big fights are still to come.
 
Downside to this is naturally that there are plenty of airfields around this region controlled by Japanese. IF that is his battle fleet than most likely he will have LBA support available.
 
I mean the gains are enourmous if you are succesfull than again....!!! As I said intresting situation! [:)]
 
 

[Andy Mac]

OK my fleet has moved to the SW one hex to consolidate.
 
All my TF's are ordered there.
 
I had previously ordered a concentration due west but I figured its to risky.
 
I thought about going in after him but to do so would leave my fleet uncovered and my Sqn are to understrength to risk it....
 
This time
 
I will be doing some analysis of my airforce in the next few weeks so I will let you know how bad it is.
 
I may disband a few PBY Sqns and PB4Y Sqns to free up some navy pilots am I correct in saying that if I move them to San Fran and withdraw the sqns they will appear in my pool ?
Andy

[Andy Mac]

I decided not to go in after PZB's heavies to risky and sure enough they came out after me !!!! One of my TF's didnt get the orders to go to the new re concentration point looks like a draw to me.

I have managed to hold off using USMC Corsairs on carriers at present and am still restricting myself to the three USN Sqns that I have.

After the Borneo operation I will need to send my carriers for a 2 month refit. The carriers currently on the West Coast will take there place but it wont be enough for the Malaya op so it is postponed.

I have cut down my operational scope and am only going for south Borneo now.

Its irritating to have prepped for 6 months and only have 2 small bases on Sulawesi to show for it but so be it.

I have a good argument for using some USMC Sqns on carriers soon (as they did operate historically on anti kami duty but we are not there yet)

Andy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 35,62

Japanese Ships
CA Maya, Shell hits 4
CA Chokai
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 9, on fire
CL Oi, Shell hits 29, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kiyoshimo
DD Hayashimo, Shell hits 20, on fire, heavy damage
DD Akishimo, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
DD Natsushio, Shell hits 2
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 4, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB California, Shell hits 8
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Australia, Shell hits 2
CA Astoria, Shell hits 5
DD Miller, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nicholas
DD Owen
DD Philip, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Picking, Shell hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 35,62

Japanese Ships
DD Matsu, Shell hits 42, and is sunk
DD Momo
DD Take, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ume, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 1, on fire
BB California, Shell hits 3
CA Salt Lake City, on fire
CL Australia
CA Astoria, Shell hits 1
DD Miller, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nicholas
DD Owen
DD Picking

Day Air attack on TF at 34,63


Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 18
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 19


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Oi, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
1 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet

[Andy Mac]

High morale, low fatigue just low on pilot quality and my carriers are at about 80% capacity. The real pinch point for my Hellcats will come next time I go to port and all the CVR's fill up.

I bottled it sinking PZB's battle line is not worth the pilots it would cost.

Most of my CVR's are now totally empty of planes so my carriers are a little fragile.

I am having a real debate with myself as I dont want to use Marine Corsairs on Carriers until they historically deployed which was about October, PZB is ok if I do but it feels a little cheap to use them.

On the other hand I am short a lot of Hellcats. For the moment I will refrain I over extended have lost a lot of pilots and got my head chopped off but I will recover.

(p.s.I have been whining quite a lot about the Hellcat situation recently so I am going to shut up about it.)

ORIGINAL: aztez

Intresting turn ahead indeed.

How are your pilots and squadrons now at your fleet carriers? High on morale and not fatigued?

If you still got plenty of fighters available and your CV bombers are ready than this is a good chance.

You destroy and heavy damage his battle fleet will buy you more time. I mean you could use LBA's to cover advances once enemy BB's and heavy fleet is neutralized. That would buy you time to raise some fighters into the pool. (I do agree that Hellcat production is quite unreasonable) I have actually docked my Hellcats and rested them a while in my PBEM againts FDR 7/1944. I think I have around 800 in the pools but the big fights are still to come.

Downside to this is naturally that there are plenty of airfields around this region controlled by Japanese. IF that is his battle fleet than most likely he will have LBA support available.

I mean the gains are enourmous if you are succesfull than again....!!! As I said intresting situation! [:)]

[Andy Mac]

OK I review the last few months and what do I see.
 
Hydra complete success broke the back of resistance in New Guinea sank 4 Jap flattops and heavily attrited IJAAF (or so I thought !!!)
 
Thunderchild a tactical defeat as I didnt go through with the operation against Marianas but it was probably the right decision to pull off again wiped out the IJAAF and IJNAF although the cost was high in pilots and frames.
 
Minotaur achieved all its ojectives took some more advanced real estate which will grealty assist the next leap forward although the method was a little cheesy.
 
OK at this point I was playing well and all is ok. IJAAF is destroyed as is half of the Jap carrier fleet. So far so good.
 
I had plenty of fuel and supplies forward dumped at Wasile and Rabaul and all is good.
 
Then we come to my next series of ops
 
What I should have done with 20/20 hindsight was unloaded my assault TF's perhaps at Rabaul if I really did want to change the axis of advance and sent more than 3 fleet carriers to West Coast for refit. I chose not to instead I just changed direction on my TF's and sent them towards the Philipines if you look further back the PI was the one place I categorically said I was not going to go near for all the reason that PZB proved 2 many bases in close range where surface raiders can stage and to many ground forces.
 
Now in hindsight I should have taken more time between the failure of the Marianas op and my next move but I suspect I got frustrated and impatient and I let it overcome my normal grinding good sense. [:D][:D][:D]
 
Zamboanga was an opportunistic grab that I knew would activate Kamizazes but I really did think I could hold. Kudos to PZB for retaking it it cost him 5 more flat tops but it was worth it to him.
 
My series of future ops - North Borneo, West PI, Singapore was all cloud cukoo land god know what I was smoking when I came up with that little brainstorm.
 
OK well I am restricting myself to a more limited operation . My fleet will land the 80,000 men of 8th Armies 3rd US Corps onto South Borneo this will happen the specific base may change but it will happen.
 
After they are ashore I will if neccessary bring the 110,000 men of 1st Amphib Corps right in on top of them one objective at a time with overwhelming force a trried and tested method none of this namby pamby risky deep strike business.
 
My intention is to secure South Borneo and then bury PZB under a cloud of LBA protected by PT Boats Sqns at each of the bases while my fleet takes a 2 month sabbatical on the West COast to rest and recoup.
 
When I come back I will have the 3 west coast carriers and 2 newly arrived Essex's all with fully trained pilots to augment my forces I have taken a knock but we are far from out of the fight.
 
 
 
Andy
 
 
 
 
 

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

High morale, low fatigue just low on pilot quality and my carriers are at about 80% capacity. The real pinch point for my Hellcats will come next time I go to port and all the CVR's fill up.

Surely if the VR squadrons are set to 'no replacements' they should NOT fill up[&:]

IRL did the replenishment CVE carry 108 a/c? I think I might edit the database for future games and set the units from 'wings' to 'squadrons' - less a/c immediately available but not such a drain on the pools - with opponents prior agreement of course[;)]

[Akos Gergely]

Sorry to disrupt the thread but can anyone point me to the predecesor of this AAR (I mean Nomad's AAR up till 7/43). I can't seem to find it, or has it just simply vanished into cyberspace?

Thanks,