Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

[crsutton]

I can fill you in from the Allied standpoint. Basically, even with an opponent that knows ASW well, I never really lost too many subs for the first two years. More than the historical numbers but not enough to worry about. He had a good focus on air ASW and that probably did more damage than ships. Mostly RTB. However, by escorting every convoy and maximizing air cover, my subs were never a big threat. Then once I got good torpedoes in late 43, the Japanese side started to get the super escort type ship. These things are flat out sub killers out of all proportion to reality and I am losing about 7 subs a month in 1944.

As for your Japanese subs, have fun until early 1943 and then prepare to start losing them in droves. I pretty much had eliminated the Japanese sub threat by the end of 43. Best ASW platform remained the Allied DDs due to crew experience. I trained up my air groups in ASW a little but for the most part rely on them to find subs while the DDs kill them. DEs and SCs get their share but it is the DDs that are the real killers. By the time you get the flood of DEs and PFs with excellent ASW weapons there are not many Japanese subs left to kill. Ark made extensive use of SSX and found them to be virtually useless. One hit a Pearl and then maybe two or three more successful attacks but for the most part they just die and cost you VPs.

Allied carrier aircraft pilots all come with decent ASW skills. SBDs and avengers are both effective sub hunters and will get a few kills. It does not matter which aircraft you use-ASW skill is the key.

[BigBadWolf]

Can't you scrap together some Zeroes for Burma? IMHO, it would really help. Oscars are just giving his pilots experience and skill points.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

Can't you scrap together some Zeroes for Burma? IMHO, it would really help. Oscars are just giving his pilots experience and skill points.

I'm trying to but there aren't many available in that area. I have 18 in the Java area and 9 at Pt. Blair. That's it other than SE Fleet and the Pacific. I'll probably move those 18 to Burma soon. The Oscars are doing a great job against the AVG but can't seem to get the Warhawks.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Not a big deal at all. We're all learning here. I'm learning that the Japanese subs are doomed. [:(]

Quite. AFter 42 they are just allied VP's to me. [:(]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Pax. [:D]

No, I'm hoping you'll find a use for them! Other than the Glen subs, I just park all my other subs on 1/1/43. They just die too easy and give the allies "freebie" VP's. Very disheartening. [:(]

Actually, even by late '42 the IJ subs really start to die fast. [:o]

[Mike Solli]

Hmm, gotta think about that Pax. There has to be a use for them. Maybe it's just sitting in port though....

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hmm, gotta think about that Pax. There has to be a use for them. Maybe it's just sitting in port though....

Counting on you. Here are all the negatives that I know of:

1. Allies get their annual "ASW" improvement (deservedly) for sonar etc.
2. Starting DD ship exp has crept up from 50's to 60's just through use.
3. Ditto Ship captain exp.
4. DD/DE's have all had at least one upgrade and huge increase of ASW weapons. EX: Porter class goes from 2xDC to 6xDC
5. ASW weapons improve. From simple DC racks to K-gun with twice the range.
6. Beginning in 7/42 the allies start to get a steady stream of DD/DE's. Roughly 5/month that continues until war's end.

Balanced against this the IJ subs get .... [&:]

[Mike Solli]

Sounds imposing. The only thing off the top of my head is to use them as an intel gathering device. Use them in screens to tip off enemy movement toward the Japanese main line of defenses. Spread out every third hex and in a couple of belts, they can cover areas where the recon is weak. You'll lose some, but they may give away an enemy operation.

[PaxMondo]

well, we'll see if any other uses come up ... but that a way's off in your game.  Now, in the early game they are still great.  Attacking and sinking almost anything! 

[zuluhour]

Attacking and sinking almost anything!

I can vouch for that, the last two victims of IJN subs (May '43 yet) are sub chasers.

[Historiker]

My experience even in the later scenarios are, that they show impressive results against allied CVs.
I intend to use my subs the way the Japs planned to use them: As capital ship killers, not as commerce raiders...

[Cribtop]

Pulse them as cap ship killers for major battles.

Use them for offensive and defensive recon (eg to determine enemy search arcs or watch sea lanes for activity in "sub transport" mode so they avoid battle).

Sub transport missions.

Moving the Japanese treasury to Argentina in '45. [:D]

[Historiker]

Do a sub invasion at the West Coast in 45!

[Mike Solli]

Oh my, all these wonderful ideas! [:D]

[zuluhour]

Have you located his sea lanes to SoPac or Australia? As its my first go at PBEM, I can only speak for me. I am using two bases in the southeast Pacific as relays to Australia and Suva. In the eastern Pacific I have not established a mid ocean base and its costing me time and shortages so I imagine a "solid" allied opponent has done so even if its an AO in mid ocean. I tend to escort tankers into and out of ports but not in mid ocean, typically 1 day out and 1-2 days in.

[Mike Solli]

No Zulu, I haven't found his SLOC. Still searching. Once I find it, I'll cause him a lot of heartache. [:D]

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

MKB was 4 hexes north of Darwin yesterday, along the edge of the shallow water. I wanted to try to hit the Marblehead again today, but I was concerned about subs, so I moved the TF one hex to the east along the shallow water. Good thing I did. The Marblehead and That Damn Boise popped up where MKB was yesterday! MKB has 23 Kates (the N1 model) and 20 of them went after the two CLs. The Marblehead took 3 torpedoes and went down and the Boise took 2 torpedoes and limped away heavily damaged. Ted told me this morning that he expects her to go down. I moved MKB 3 hexes north so it's still 7 hexes from Darwin. If Boise doesn't go down, I want MKB to be able to assist her tomorrow. Should Boise make Darwin, there is still that sub laid minefield there to greet her. Banzai!

The next turn awaits!

Wow, the Boise is a goner! This means you've basically won the war. Without her, the USN is finished!

Okay, I know this is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. I hate that damn ship. I seriously think the devs have done something with the code to make her comparable to a Star Wars Death Star. Early on, I'd rather see her go than any allied BB. I even think I'd be happier seeing her go than a US CV. I'm not kidding.

I've seen the Boise single-handedly take on TFs composed of 2 BBs, 4 CA/CLs and multiple DDs and walk away with barely a scratch while either sinking or heavily damaging over half of the ships in the TF. She's absolutely nuts in this game. Considering that her real life service record wasn't anything to write home about, I don't understand why she is such a beast in the game.

I wonder, are any of the devs from Idaho? [;)]

[ny59giants]

Big Bad Boise became a legend in the old WITP days. I had her give nightmares to my opponent in my first PBEM game. If she came across a transport TF, they were in trouble with those rapid firing 6" guns. [&o]

Since I'm starting a game as Allies, I cannot wait to get 2 Brooklyn Class CLs and about 6 to 8 Fletcher DDs in a SC TF. I will be looking for trouble with those TFs. [:D]

[CT Grognard]

That Damn Boise was sunk on the third day of the war in my PBEM against Arnhem.

Of course, not until she had herself managed to sink CVL Ryujo... [:@][:@][:@]

[Mike Solli]

This is the first of my games to sink That Damn Boise without her ever firing a shot. She usually gives me some more gray hairs first. [:D]

[zuluhour]

The soon as I posted the question about his sea lanes to you, Terry found MINE!! 2 tankers in 2 days.