ALLIED ONLY: aztez (A) vs erstad (J) ...2nd ROUND

[aztez]

Squamry: Cheers. I will be raising few glasses myself on friday since it our companys christmas party! [:D]
 
As for the game thank you for the kind words.
 
I do highly recommend an PBEM game since it is way diffrent than gaming againts the AI.
 
My advice would be take your time to pick the opponent since that is the single most important thing if you are playing grand campaign. Just make sure that both of you view the game same way.
 
I can guarantee that there will be time when you need to discuss issues so that becomes important.

The last turns have been very quiet in this one. Both sides are just preparing for the upcoming battles allthough I have an feeling that we will see few more japanese offensives soon. (I might be wrong though)
 
Latest updates have multiday ones but once things heat up you can expect daily reports.
 
I'am thinking already ahead but I want more offensive capability.

[crsutton]

I will say that your AAR and a few others along with my own experience vs a skilled Japanese player has proven that the pace of Japanese operations has not slowed down in AE vs WITP. In fact, I think the Allies are substantially weaker overall in the first few months of the war. Except for commiting my carriers before they are ready, I see no front or field where I can seriously challenge my opponent's expansion. It is mid march in my game and he is at Aykab, nosing around N Oz, and  ready to expand in the S Pacific to PM and Noumea. I really don't see where I have to forces to stop him. (I am not even going to mention China).
 
My biggest mistake was agreeing to play scen 2 with the extra resources to Japan, but judging from the other games that I am reading about, it does not look as if it matters much.
 
Biggest issues are
1. Total uselessness of inexperienced Allied troops at the beginning of the war. No way to historically hold Singapore, Java or PI.
2. China questions.
3. Lack of any real chance of LBA to do serious damage to ships due to inexperience.
4. Japanese uber subs and inability of ASW to attack them.
5. Pitiful aircraft replacement rate that does not change with the situation. Any serious air campaign will just leave the Allies with no aircraft or pilots. You would think that if the Japanese were overunning the S. Pacific or parts of Oz, that the Allies would have found a few more planes.
 
Actually, most of this is historical. The uber subs is not but, I don't want to deny the Japanese player of all his fun.[;)]
I think the solution is in to find more ways to restrict the Japanese logistical abilities in the early months. All of these other problems can be managed otherwise.
One real issue that I feel strongly is no Japanese units out of Manchuria without at least some possibilty (very slight) of Soviet activiation. In game the Japanese never should be allowed to be in a situation where he knows he can manipulate that garrison without the Soviets entering. In fact the actual Soviet activation date should vary by +/- 2 to 3 months to prevent micromanagment from the Japanese.

[Smeulders]

There should be about 3 extra combat worthy Japanese divisions in scen 2 + extra garrison troops that free up other good units, that should have a pretty big impact on what the Japanese can attempt in OZ, India and China.

[Swenslim]

. Total uselessness of inexperienced Allied troops at the beginning of the war. No way to historically hold Singapore, Java or PI.


??????

In my 2 pbem's (which I had to end due problems) I took Singapore at 15 february, day to day as in history, Java was holding even for 2 months longer, only PI fall much earlier, but due to allied players mistakes and commitment of 1 additional division.

4. Japanese uber subs and inability of ASW to attack them.

Subs are uber when allied player has 1 or not a single ship in escort.

5. Pitiful aircraft replacement rate that does not change with the situation. Any serious air campaign will just leave the Allies with no aircraft or pilots. You would think that if the Japanese were overunning the S. Pacific or parts of Oz, that the Allies would have found a few more planes.


Hm... totaly disagree, allied player has as much planes as it had in history, please remember, that Holland was occupied by Germany, Britain was fighting hard in North Africa and USA just entered the war and putt industry on war rails...so all is historical.


Only China looks little unbalanced... but lets be honest, we dont know what would happen in RL if Japan pulled addtional divisions and tank regiments from Manchuko into China as japan player is doing.

[Rob Brennan UK]

My biggest mistake was agreeing to play scen 2 with the extra resources to Japan, but judging from the other games that I am reading about, it does not look as if it matters much.

I almost offered to play allies vs PBEM japan in the ironman scenario untill i peeked at the Japanese start position. The additional ships and troops werent a worry (could make a v hard game imo) but Japans resources and pools were stupidly high , and now i understand why its a game vs the AI ONLY ! .. over 1 million tanks in the pools at game start just as an example [;)]

I have to say i agree more with Swens views overall with regard to a/c numbers etc. Allied CV's can seriously hurt Japan unless he uses Cv's to cover all the invasions. No freebie invasions vs a human player. Bi-Plane devastators can badly maul any unescorted japanese invasion force. However KB must be avoided at all costs untill at least mid 43 unless he's seriously out of position. Mini KB is another matter entirely imo.

Japanese subs can me made ineffective (if not sunk) by large numbers of air search a/c. one of the best uses for the hopeles wirraways now is to swamp harbours with search planes to keep the pesky subs further out and therefore less effective. AM's off canada and australia can be effective ASW groups too. Simply by distracting the subs and keeping them down. Actually sinking one with an armed merchant would be a fluke. Canadian KV's are superb ASW ships for early war inshore patrols.

One of the best things (i.e pleasure) i get from playing allied early war is the fact you have very limited numbers of just about everything. finding new uses for ships and A/C can be eye opening. Dont even try and cover every eventuality (allies cant) and only fight if its important or it'll delay Japan in some significant way.

China does appear to be broken but no-ones seriously played out beta patch china yet (from start) and proper patch 2 will i trust make china a bit more powerful defensively and give her much needed supplies which as the player you will have to ration carefully.But thats the fun part. This AAR and others that started at release wont get the benefits from patch 2 china (well much less than a new start) so that particular pack of cards will most likely crumble anyway. New games will find out the truth of the matter.

[aztez]

Hi to all,

It seems that there is good discussion ongoing regarding allied positions in 1942 and japanese advance during this period.

Here are my views and experience after 9 months of struggle.

- I definately think japanese are stronger and able advance faster than it was possible with classic witp. You only need to look at the map. I have been thinking that he cannot move ahead before resting his troops and been proven wrong time after time.

- China. It is/was unbalanced. The replacement rates are ok but recovering from disabled status is ridicilious. There is also the issue destroyed units not respawning. When playing in this theatre there really nothing to stop the japanese airforce from bombarding your bases to dust... I mean absolutely nothing. There are many issues here which I already talked about but lets just say that you cannot compete if your opponent withdraws enough troops from manchuko and place adequate airforce here. I haven't tested beta patch 2 and looking forward of hearing comments.

- The allied replacements in terms of aircraft are low in scale. I know these are historical and toned down from the classic witp. However the battle of attrition does not favour allies at least not until 1943. My current pools are dry... I have operational aircraft BUT not much to replace the losses. I haven't checked but really hope things will change in 1943. At the moment this is bad to be honest.

I think my opponents pools must be in much better shape and I worried about the experience levels too.

I have an bad feeling regarding Oz too. Don't ask why but it seems a mess to me. This is mainly due to aircraft replacements.

- Japanese can sail around quite immune from the beginning. As crsutton stated only divebombers are worth of anything at the start. Do not waste your lba bombers trying to score hits since bluntly they do not hit anything. Actually these raids are waste of time, effort and aircraft.

- Japanese submarines are very effective and do a lot of harm. I need to look at the allied submarine tactics once more since these subs are either not hitting anything or not spotting anything. It seems though that the japanese effectiviness is slowing down a bit though.

- There is a lot of talk about the ubercap. It is gone but allied cannot take advantage this in early on. This became quite obvious near India few weeks back where mini KB raged on. Dave put up constant 80-100 CAP which knocked down any efforts made up by the allies. I have an bad feeling that this will affect the allies much more than it will japanese...

Another few things that concerns me... a) kamikazes. I read in main forum about 1944 hit effectiviness and became very worried... b) US/RN surface combat capabilities. I really wonder whether these ships can go up toe toe with IJN when the big boys meet.

Overall somewhat mixed feeling. Mostly due to reading how much tougher it is for japan and how it was supposed to slow things down. That hasn't materialized and I can confirm that there are a lot more problems for the allied side than in classic witp. I don't know how the japanese setup is but it hasn't shown up in the real gameplay.

Currently somewhat worried

This is just my personal view and none of forum members nor readers should take it personally or in negative way. That is not the way these opinions were meant to be.

At the moment I really need to be careful when and where I will commit my forces. A few blunders can bring in catastrophic longterm results so no need to rush things out.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Another few things that concerns me... a) kamikazes. I read in main forum about 1944 hit effectiviness and became very worried..

I read that thread too and it transpired that the OP had a buggy game and Andy kindly fixed it for him. Way too many people jumped on the 'its broken' bandwagon initially and that insta-response "its broken so i wont play" is childish and unhelpful. Fortunately cooler heads soon joined in and the Allies have to be worried about kamikazis (as they were historically) but 1 oscar sinking a BB is/was a BUG. Some players who have been into that stage of the war report much more accurate results imo 5-7 hits kill most ships (seems fair as fires would be atrocious). Some RL DD's and DE's actually did survive worse and some crew survived. However the ships themselves were complete write-offs and in game terms that = sunk in my book.

Not having got anywhere close to 44 yet, I am not worried about Kamis being too harsh, we all have to remember that uber cap doesnt exist anymore and a good pilot can still crash a betty into a major warship once. If japan puts its aces into kami units they will be deadly (again once). Taking and building up airfields for overlapping CAP will be much more important in AE , zooming ahead and taking an important island/atoll without any mutual land based support will be a v v risky venture. No longer the allied "dump 6 divs and mop up" rinse..repeat. while ignoring japanese air.

In a nutshell "watch the skies ! "[;)]

[Q-Ball]

I strongly suspect that the operational pace for BOTH sides hasn't been slowed down as much as advertised. I think crsutton that it's slower than WITP; playing Japan, it's definitely tougher to keep your logistical tail moving for quick advances, but it's possible.

I suspect the Allies won't have that tough a time either once the offensive starts. It's much tougher for the Japanese to build forts (no more size-9 forts on everything like WITP), and there are alot more bases to defend as well. The only saving grace you will get as Japan is that 4Es are not as effective, and they generally will have trouble operating from small-island platforms (for lack of AV support troops)

[Yamato_Blitzer]

Allied torpedoes are almost literally garbage in early game. 9/10 won't detonate.

Speaking of vets of past wars. My great grandpa had a hell of a time in Passchendaele in 1917, almost resembles a war movie.....Well some of you might know of the "muddy" conditions of that battle, men and horses drowning in pools of mud. His platoon was cut off and annihilated (probably by German artillery) and he was the last one left. I was never told by my grandma how exactly it happened (duct-board broke maybe, I don't know), but he fell into the mud and he spent almost a week in mud almost up to his neck while the cat-sized rats literally ate him alive at the face, with just his dead friends around him. He only survived because it rained constantly, pretty ironic if you ask me. Couldn't defend himself against that army of rats as both his arms were stuck as well. They could have killed him. Kind of comes to symbolize the many inhumane mentalitys of that whole stupid war. In the end just being left to the mercy of a bunch of dirty rats, like some half dead dog. That is pretty much a reality that could be used to sum up that entire period of history.

Even looking at pictures of him, his face looks really scarred up, like someone took a cheese grater to his cheeks. My grandma said that occasionally, before bed time, he would tell stories about the war and every night that he did, her or one of her siblings would have a nightmare about it and wake up crying.

He also had bayonet scars on his wrist from when the Germans went around bayoneting corpses checking for survivors, for his own survival he had to lay there with his eyes closed and just take it, no sh*t, seems us Canadians always got the good missions in that war (Although Lloyd George himself commended our men on occasion as an elite corps)....I'd scream like a little girl if I got a bayonet in the wrist, but his survival instinct completely took over, Germans must not have noticed his chest enlarge as they stabbed him, I imagine that that's the least a stab in the wrist would provoke. They must have stabbed him and immediately moved forward and he just didn't make any noise, very lucky man. Seems like he had a similiar experience as Hitler did, in the sense that on at least a few occasions, his company was wiped out while he survived by sheer luck.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

There should be about 3 extra combat worthy Japanese divisions in scen 2 + extra garrison troops that free up other good units, that should have a pretty big impact on what the Japanese can attempt in OZ, India and China.

Yeah the extra combat troops are most likely a factor. I should never have agreed to it. Oh well, I get a challenge anyways.

[aztez]

Rob: Yeah. I think that was thread I was reading that stuff initially. You did summarize my feelings also quite nicely.

It is still early days to judge whether the late war stuff is ok. I doubt those years were tested as thoroughly.

I need to patient and careful when we start rolling on for sure.

Q-Ball: That could be true. As for the moment really cannot say on the allied pace either but I think initial advance ideas have been cut down due to replacement rates, etc.

I'am very doubful that allied can make significant operations before summer of 1943 unless ofcourse you have your full CV stack available. It is risky with the new CAP system.

Yamato_Blitzer: They did not seem to hit much as you said. Allthough those torpedoes were poor historically too.

That is one hell of an story! Those days were "ugly" ones for sure!

[aztez]

Pacific (august 25h - 3rd september 1942)


The game is progressing but the action has been very limited for time being.

We haven't upgraded to the 2nd patch but I think we will do it when next turn arrives. Both of us just wanted to be sure that there is no major issues that have been spotted in past week or such.

Intresting to see how things will progress in china. At the moment the ceasefire holds on land combat but it will be lifted once we upgrade.

Both sides are propably busy shipping troops and supplies around.

The allied pools are not in good shape as you can see from the monthly summary.

Only action worthwile of reporting is that japanese have almost wiped out the australian forces defending the country in the north. These troops were cut off an picked one by one.

Here is the pacific theatre map and monthly pics.

[aztez]

Intel screen...

[aztez]

Aircraft losses...

[aztez]

Fighter replacement pools...

[aztez]

Bomber replacement pools...

[aztez]

Top aces...

[Rob Brennan UK]

All 3 double aces MIA ! and all brits too [:(]

A/c pools are defrinately on the low side but not much you can do about it except refuse to fight except where its important.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

All 3 double aces MIA ! and all brits too [:(]

A/c pools are defrinately on the low side but not much you can do about it except refuse to fight except where its important.

Looks quite historical to me as none of them is CPT Affleck, B. [;)]

[Yamato_Blitzer]

As you can see aztez, We're here to do you the favor of not getting your hopes up in certain aspects.[:D]